StarPlatinumTheWorld
Member
UHD Blu-ray is far better quality than 4K streaming from Amazon and Netflix, I bought the Xbox One S mainly for the UHD player as well as games obviously, would have got the PS4 Pro if it had one.
This is monumentally poor logic.
DVD was the only player in town and offered huge upgrades over VHS. There will never be another DVD. Now we have choices upon choices. Simply using that as a metric for successful physical media is entirely irrelevant.
Will there be customers who care about the best picture quality? Yes
Would those people own a 4K tv? Yes
Would those people probably be the ones interested in the PS4 pro? Yes
Unless you went out and bought a 4K tv specifically for the PS4 pro the only other good content is UHD bluray. Streaming 4K content is the equivalent of a physical 1080p disc quality wise and audio is still inferior to physical.
So saying well bluray and UHD are failing because they are less than DVD means zero. There will always be physical media because there will always be people who desire the best experience and to actually own their content. That's not even factoring in the ridiculous amount of bandwidth required for 4K streaming and data caps.
Not only that, the cost to include a UHD drive is entirely negligible. This is Sony not wanting to compete with its own pricey, stand alone UHD player. That's it and that's all. They aren't trying to keep a price point or make a streaming first decision. It's about maximizing profits and it cost them a sale atleast from me. In fact I sold my PS4 and moved to PC entirely then just bought a stand alone UHD player (non Sony).
Sony makes UHD Blu-rays though...and, what you censoring yourself for?
The next playstation revision? are you talking about a Ps4 pro-pro? fuck that shit. I thought sony said that wasn't gonna happen
Stop asking me that.we'll see about that. The Ps4 pro is the first of its kind. I thought it would be received positively, but I agree that it's been kinda lukewarm.
Except in usa isps are seemingly adding data caps again, all it will take is for 4k blurays to drop to normal price
Here in UK data is totally unlimited for most but 4k streaming isn't that great quality anyway
Going with your logic why add niche 4k, 720(1080)p is far more popular.UHD Blu Ray may look better, but streaming is far more popular and is getting better and better.
Why add in a niche function? DVD and Blu Ray will still be more popular for a long while as physical media.
UHD Blu-ray is far better quality than 4K streaming from Amazon and Netflix, I bought the Xbox One S mainly for the UHD player as well as games obviously, would have got the PS4 Pro if it had one.
The number of people who care about 4K and the Pro is smaller than the number of people who are fine at 1080p and a regular PS4. So under your logic, because there's a smaller audience, the Pro shouldn't exist? The Pro is by definition a niche console catered to a smaller niche market. That smaller niche is probably more interested rather than less interested in UHD Blu ray.
It is odd though that it wasn't up day 1. Roku Netflix has HDR capabilities as do pretty much all smart TVs so it's not as if there should be a problem.
Going with your logic why add niche 4k, 720(1080)p is far more popular.
fuck, that is a valid point. although like Ponn said this is new territory so who knows.You don't think they will make the pro smaller and/or more efficient? Every company makes multiple revisions through a devices lifetime
This doesn't really make sense...from what I'm gathering from your post,Sony has a high end UHD Blu-ray player coming out next year that is not for the mass market it's for high end users & of course they make UHD Blu-rays that's as simple as pressing the movies on the disc but I don't feel like they are fully behind the UHD Blu-ray format because they was working on a 4K disc format that would work on older Blu-ray drives with a firmware update but the format that needed new hardware is the format that hit the market.
fair enough. I guess I can appreciate that.I censored myself because I was just using an expression & some people don't want to see words like that when they are on a gaming forum.
The number of people who care about 4K and the Pro is smaller than the number of people who are fine at 1080p and a regular PS4. So under your logic, because there's a smaller audience, the Pro shouldn't exist? The Pro is by definition a niche console catered to a smaller niche market. That smaller niche is probably more interested rather than less interested in UHD Blu ray.
So many concerned over Sony saving money on their own format as opposed to getting more entertainment value and utility for their consoles. Damn. It would have cost Sony less to implement their own developed drives and standards than it does for MS with the Xbox One S where they pay Sony licensing fees to use UHD Blu-ray.
You guys are mistaken on how much the simple inclusion of UHD drives on Xbox One S are moving the console. Everyone who purchases a 4K television is looking at or has bought one because it is one of the cheapest and best options. Even visit a 4k tv for PS4 Pro thread and you have peoplr who don't give two shits about Halo or Gears or MS gaming wanting to pick up an Xbox One S. You can buy more than 100+ UHD discs from Amazon. Netflix has maybe 2-3 4K movies like Ghostbusters or Adam Sandler Netflix original films.
So many concerned over Sony saving money on their own format as opposed to getting more entertainment value and utility for their consoles. Damn. It would have cost Sony less to implement their own developed drives and standards than it does for MS with the Xbox One S where they pay Sony licensing fees to use UHD Blu-ray.
You guys are mistaken on how much the simple inclusion of UHD drives on Xbox One S are moving the console. Everyone who purchases a 4K television is looking at or has bought one because it is one of the cheapest and best options. Even visit a 4k tv for PS4 Pro thread and you have peoplr who don't give two shits about Halo or Gears or MS gaming wanting to pick up an Xbox One S. You can buy more than 100+ UHD discs from Amazon. Netflix has maybe 2-3 4K movies like Ghostbusters or Adam Sandler Netflix original films.
Is it possible to rent 4K movies trough PS Store? If yes, it's kinda obvious why they didn't include a 4K player. It's the same situation as EA Access. They didn't include it because it is "poor value", but we all know that they want us to buy EA games trough their service.
UHD Blu Ray may look better, but streaming is far more popular and is getting better and better.
Why add in a niche function? DVD and Blu Ray will still be more popular for a long while as physical media.
By that logic, why bother outputting in 4K at all? 1080/720 will be more popular for a long while.
UHD Blu Ray may look better, but streaming is far more popular and is getting better and better.
Why add in a niche function? DVD and Blu Ray will still be more popular for a long while as physical media.
Pretty much all? Samsungs don't have it yet and they are market leaders in sales.
Do you have proof that streaming 4k is far more popular than UHD? I'd probably say it's just the opposite given the state of broadband in the US. You add a niche function because it's a niche console. It's high end and it's a silly oversight to not include UHD. It is possible to admit Sony screwed up ya know. That doesn't take away from it being a decent mid gen uograde; they just made a mistake. We'll see how much it bites them in the ass by the time Scorpio launches.
Because 4K gaming is far more popular than 4K movies right now.
That's not really equivalent to what you're saying though...
You said 'why include UHD BD since DVD/BD will be more popular for a long time'. I'm saying, in that case why include 4K at all since 1080/720 (gaming OR movies) will be more popular for a long time.
You can't even rent/buy movies through the PS store where I live in Europe. Should I be able to?Is it possible to rent 4K movies trough PS Store? If yes, it's kinda obvious why they didn't include a 4K player. It's the same situation as EA Access. They didn't include it because it is "poor value", but we all know that they want us to buy EA games trough their service.
You can't even rent/buy movies through the PS store where I live in Europe. Should I be able to?
The bottom line, though, is that not putting an Ultra HD Blu-ray drive in the PS4 Pro is a mistake – but one which, as I’ll explain at the end, Sony’s console division sadly seemingly had no choice but to make.
In other words, Sony is, on a company wide basis, comfortably more than a year off the mass market Ultra HD Blu-ray player pace. Couple this fact with the length of time the PS4 Pro has presumably been in development and the need to get it out comfortably ahead of Project Scorpio, and it would surely have been essentially impossible for the PS4 Pro to include a UHD BD player without sourcing one almost wholesale from an external OEM like Microsoft did for the Xbox One S.
And while being part of a large, multi-faceted company like Sony doubtless has its advantages, buying in an Ultra HD Blu-ray player from a non-Sony source would presumably have been untenable given the brand’s – usually admirable – desire to add its own special processing sauce and product eco-system to any core component.
Here’s the full Sony CE statement: “4K is becoming mainstream first through streaming, and then through broadcasts. Only after this will 4K content start to become commonly distributed on discs, and we are anticipating more of this going forward. Sony will thus bring a distinctly “Sony,” high-quality 4K Blu-ray disc player equipped with Sony’s latest technologies to market at the appropriate time, in a way that is consistent with market demand for 4K discs. Sony hopes to invigorate the 4K market in this way.”
You can’t help but think that a more confident Sony CE division might have sought to ‘invigorate the 4K market’ by introducing an Ultra HD Blu-ray player into a massively popular product like the PS4 Pro, just as it did with Blu-ray in the PS3.
You can't even rent/buy movies through the PS store where I live in Europe. Should I be able to?
I'd be willing to bet you 4K streaming will be very very regional. It's not even feasible where I live due to data caps and then there is the why. Why even bother when the quality isn't up to standard and I get better audio on a standard bluray.Nope but the number of people who will care will be smaller than the number of people who will be enjoying the 4K streaming.
That is the point.
If people can just turn on their new 4K TVs & get 4K content that they see as good enough they will be less likely to go out & get a UHD Blu-ray player & UHD Blu-ray disc.
Unless I'm blind, iFixit's teardown unfortunately did not state the Pro's drive, not even if it is the same in the OG (it could be, but no confirmation). If its a different drive, there could be a chance for UHD playback (see Xbox One S teardown for drive model).
Not trying to hope or think anything is different than it already is, but who knows maybe they are holding off support for like what everyone has been saying, because of their standalone players releasing next year. No clue, just trying to make sense of it all
Because 4K gaming is making it relevant, and if you don't have that then you also get downsampling at 1080p which also looks pretty sweet.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...ve-the-mistake-sony-had-to-make/#ee83fe639b9d
with 81 page and going in this thread, it has probably already been posted, but this article has an interesting theory that even if sony had planned to put a UHD drive in its pro, it may have been in no position to do so...
Your argument is no one cares about picture quality so why would these buyers even get a pro in the first place? Or even own a 4K tv? LolExcept for bragging rights and being able to say I have a 4k blu-ray player it makes zero sense.
I don't want to wear out my system from playing movies. I use it for games and if the drive fails... If history should have taught us anything it's that the moving parts in these consoles don't last forever. There are countless stories of PS2, PS3, Xbox (360) Blu-ray/DVD drives failing to read discs or stop working completely.
How many 4k blu-ray movies are even available? Blu-ray.com shows 152 in it's database. Even if they are available do you own the blu-ray already? Are you going to re-buy that blu-ray? How many times are you going to re-watch it? If it's also on a streaming service you have access to are you going to start up the Blu-ray player and get the disc out or just click play on Netflix (Roku, Apple TV, Amazon Fire, ...)? I found myself using Netflix (Apple TV, Chromecast) even if I owned the blu-ray discs.
I just sold all my blu-ray and other media and it's glorious. Blu-ray is far superior in terms of quality to streaming, but it got to the point I didn't care. Accessibility, convenience, and less clutter won me over. I did keep a few anime and The Matrix, but that's it.
Many people don't care about 4k. Does 4k make a bad movie good or more entertaining? I love blu-ray, but I'm fine and happy watching a good movie on my iPad or laptop. It doesn't wreck the experience for me. I can't be alone. I see and hear the same as everyone else.
Who buys a gaming console for a disc drive? That sounds ridiculous. Did people buy a Wii for it's DVD drive?
And a UHD BD player in an iteration of one of the most popular BD players on the market would make 4K movies more relevant, too.
The truth is, Sony wanted to include a UHD player but the timing wasn't right for them. Their big push for the post-BD era will be next year, and they couldn't afford to put a player in PS4Pro if they wanted to get it out in time for Christmas at a palatable price for consumers.
And that makes sense. It's a perfectly fine business decision to make. But this whole excuse-making on Sony's behalf, trying to swing the "UHD would be pointless, no one wants/uses it" argument.... it's just ridiculous.
UHD Blu Ray may look better, but streaming is far more popular and is getting better and better.
Why add in a niche function? DVD and Blu Ray will still be more popular for a long while as physical media.
UHD drives are barely more than bluray drives. Cost isn't the issue.
Your argument is no one cares about picture quality so why would these buyers even get a pro in the first place? Or even own a 4K tv? Lol
UHD drives are barely more than bluray drives. Cost isn't the issue.
No. I refuse to split my purchases over multiple accounts for one platform. Keeping track of what I own digitally is already a pain in the ass with the sheer multitude of different platforms.You know you can just set up an account, say you're in a different region during registration, and hey ho. I buy basically everything through a US account, just buy PSN credit from Amazon to pay for your stuff instead of using your credit card or PayPal.
Fair point and I agree with you. But it was an honest question I wasn't aware that PS store offered movies in other countries.Their argument was that they didn't include the player because streaming have become more popular, so yes.
well the pro does 4K streaming, so even though games of course is what it's made for, they clearly wanted to offer 4K media to go with it. it sounds like any way it is explained, the exclusive of 4K blu ray was a mistake.Because 4K gaming is far more popular than 4K movies right now.
i'm afraid i don't understand...http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...ve-the-mistake-sony-had-to-make/#ee83fe639b9d
with 81 page and going in this thread, it has probably already been posted, but this article has an interesting theory that even if sony had planned to put a UHD drive in its pro, it may have been in no position to do so...
True but its not the cost of just dropping the drive in there today. It's the cost of including it when taping out the console 2 years ago. But more importantly than cost, it's just not in Sony's plans to push physical UHD discs this year (as evidenced in the post I quoted in my edit)
Bottom line, Sony could have done it, but didn't want to because reasons. The argument that they didn't include it because it's pointless and no one wants it and somehow they are doing us all a favour is just nonsense.
15$ can affect production cost.
Not when you consider UHD sales and volume. Or losing sales to xbone S. To save $15 Sony lost a sale from me, yearly psn sub, digital game money and game sales. So atleast in my case to save $15 they probably lost $300+
Not when you consider UHD sales and volume. Or losing sales to xbone S. To save $15 Sony lost a sale from me, yearly psn sub, digital game money and game sales. So atleast in my case to save $15 they probably lost $300+
Did you not have an Xbone or PS4 before the S?
To counter your anecdote, the PS4 Pro has ended up making me spend £300 on it, £60 on a bunch of games in the sale, £1600 on a new Sony TV and £300 on a new Pioneer HDR receiver.
Sony's mistake from my point of view was not having an HDR capable receiver readily available in the UK when their competitors do, as otherwise I'd have got one of those over the Pioneer.
Had it had a UHD player as well then great, but I'm not that fussed right now. Maybe when Planet Earth 2 comes out on disk I might be but standalone player costs are coming down.
As I said before, largely I think people attributing the UHD drive in the S as the reason for the sales in NA/UK just does a disservice to what MS have accomplished with the rest of the machine and what it offers for the price.
As said earlier, I wish they had put one in as it would save me at a later date buying another bit of kit.
That fair. If you dont have a PS4 and was very unsure what to get between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One S, and the 4K Bluray player is what made you decide between those two systems, then they might have lost a sale there indeed. On the flipside though, going for that $399 pricetag by keeping the production costs cheaper might also have brought it more consumers as well. In those cases, they would make more money.Not when you consider UHD sales and volume. Or losing sales to xbone S. To save $15 Sony lost a sale from me, yearly psn sub, digital game money and game sales. So atleast in my case to save $15 they probably lost $300+
but you care about 4K, right?You care about movies, i don't. And Sony had a good reason not to break 399$ price point.