That it can address DDR3 directly without ESRAM.
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AMD: PlayStation 4 supports hUMA, Xbox One does not
- Thread starter ElTorro
- Start date
That it can address DDR3 directly without ESRAM.
DragonSworne
Banned
One big thing people might be missing, not only is processing power being saved with hUMA, but PS4 effectively has even more memory now since data isn't duplicated in memory for the GPU and CPU. A single pointer can now be used by both the GPU and CPU.
Since they're all being rushed, though, I'm assuming that the detriment to each is the same. I'm not assuming that they're all indicative of what visuals will look like in three years, only that if the gap were as big as Xbox and DC (even PS2), we'd already see it. Unless you think Forza 5 is as good as Xbone will ever look and Driveclub is only utilising ~20% of the PS4's power, of course. Which is possible but seems unlikely to me.
[edit] I picked DC and F5 because they're both racers. I think the point remains valid if you pick, say, Fable Heroes (Legends?) and Knack, though. The visuals in Knack are noticeably better but they're not Dreamcast to Xbox level.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Well it matches up with CBOAT saying that PS4 games are ready to master while Xbox is stuck in development hell with the latest SDK dropping the performance by 20%. I'm sure once it is optimised over the next couple of months the performance gap will shrink. I'll get him to ask the third parties what they think will happen.
Neuromancer
Member
Good. GOOD.
Also here is Yung Humma!
YES I was waiting for some Turquoise Jeep.
TurkishDLite
Banned
yay! another thread about how the ps4 is so superior to the xbox one and we should all buy ps4
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Steve Balmer. SAVE YOUR COMPANY. WHAT ARE YOU DOING???
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
Welp, I learned something new today. I just assumed it was easier the other way around since that's how it was done with 360 and PS3. But given that they had different internal architectures, I suppose that makes sense.
And Soul Destroyer said the pc will be the lead platform this gen so it sounds like the pc version will look best, followed by PS3 and 360. Hopefully that means no gimped pc versions this time around (I'm looking at you Dark Souls)
NorthernAvengeR
Banned
Why can't you be more like your brother, Xbone?
Yeah also ask him when the PS4 is launching and MS indie plans !
maquiladora
Member
Great counter argument there. Totally invalidates what AMD said. Time to lock up the thread I guess.
Cornbread78
Member
I don't think anyone will doubt they will both look awesome, however, I believe people can easily point out that the difference this gen is much greater in regards to architecture than last gen. With the gap growing everyday, we should expect to see a difference if the same game is booted up on machines side by side and played.
perineumlick
Member
The way I've heard it, devs will have an easier time getting better performance due to the ease of development for the PS4. While not exactly free, there's less overhead to deal with, so if the power is there it will be put to use.
I guess the Xbox will support that via its Data Move Engines.
DerZuhälter
Member
Someone explain to me what this means in Dragonball Z terms!
Fusion?Kaioken?Babidi Mindcontrol?
In all seriousness: Copying data around in memory pools instead of pointing memory addresses: Is this something that makes programming much easier and improves performance that huge? How much latency does the copying add to the processing of a single frame?
Fusion?Kaioken?Babidi Mindcontrol?
In all seriousness: Copying data around in memory pools instead of pointing memory addresses: Is this something that makes programming much easier and improves performance that huge? How much latency does the copying add to the processing of a single frame?
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
From the AMD site:-
Okay. This sounds good but it's comparing a standard PC architecture with separate memory pools for CPU memory and GPU memory to a unified memory architecture like PS4.
I don't see anything here that can't be done on XBO.
Okay. This sounds good but it's comparing a standard PC architecture with separate memory pools for CPU memory and GPU memory to a unified memory architecture like PS4.
I don't see anything here that can't be done on XBO.
maquiladora
Member
But those games have a really different approach, that illustrates most first party games for both consoles.
Forza play the safe card without using too taxing techs and having nice eye candy, while DC try to be a next gen showcase of every costly things imaginable.
At this point i think some here would probably commit suicide if they couldnt go another day without dick waving.But the games on both machines tell a different story. Theres no huge jump from one to the other. Both machines look like they could easily pull off the same visuals should their exclusives ever trade places.
I've seen it all. Someone being insecure about a video game console's performance.
PJV3
Member
I don't understand really, but is it like Batman and Superman having a baby?
Actually you explained it very well, thanks.
Manmademan
Member
it was done that way because the 360 was MUCH easier for developers to use than the ps3 for most of that system's lifespan. so the ps3 was more powerful, but only in theory. in a practical sense, most devs could get more out of the 360 than they could from the ps3 for many years. On top of that, the 360 was selling much better and had a larger install base, thanks to a lower price point and an additional year on the market. making ps3 lead didn't really make sense, outside of titles that sold heavily in JP.
PC will be lead platform initially, but i expect that to change as the install base of both consoles increases. power gaps aside, ps4/xbone are a lot more similar to each other than they are to the PC, and as the userbase increases you'll likely see developers target those first and then port over to PC.
Still "funny" that an AMD representative is so public about the performance differences of its customer's competing products.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
... and it could be stated that more and more calculations for graphical related tasks too would move to compute shaders/GPGPU calculations.
Really? This is a tech based statement from the company supplying th tech for both consoles. Making this statement publicly is pretty surprising and worth a thread and discussion.
DragonSworne
Banned
DerZuhälter;77502041 said:
PS4 CPU = Majin Vegeta
PS4 GPU = SSJ3 Goku
PS4 gddr5 memory = Mystic Gohan
hUMA is the fusion of vegeta, goku, and Gohan.
So please explain it. I understand contact law, not computer architecture.
My 'counter argument' is that we will see when the machines launch and we can actually play finished games. I'm getting both consoles so it matters little to me and games from this generation still impress me so i'm not going to worry about a machine with upwards of 10 times the power of current gen whether this rumour is true or not.
Soul Destroyer
Banned
Although his wording/phrasing isn't quite right it's easy to see the point he is trying to put across,(Which is that changes/calculations are seen by both the CPU/GPU in memory in real time without the need to copy or flush cache to update) so dismissing his post as "Absolute bollocks" is not needed.He clearly said at the start of the post it was not a tech interpretation, it was what he thought with his knowledge.
If you are not happy with the way the console of your choice is shaping up, please refrain from throwing the toys out the pram.
...and Driveclub looks better as a result. Not sure what your point is here? You think that DC is 4.5x the computational workload of F5? Okay...
But PRT is GCN technology, even PC 7xxx cards have it already.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...u-memory-should-appear-in-kaveri-xbox-720-ps4
This is from April. Don't see a reason why the X1 shouldn't have hUMA.
This is at least what AMD is hoping for. We'll have to see what happens and if it's really scalable. From what I know of architecture and software the whole unified architecture is the future, you basically want one address space, in the end. It minimizes IPC which is the biggest cause of latency in any software system. (I'm not saying that PS4 is a single address space system that does that, mind you, I'm saying PC architecture would benefit greatly if we had such a system.)
The ESRAM rules out hUMA because if they need to have a very fast cache to put stuff when they're copying it in and out of GPU / CPU space. Yes it has unified RAM, but the CPU allots how much virtual memory both the CPU and GPU get access too at a given time. It's all virtual which is why they need the ESRAM to speed up the bottlenecks.
FeiRR
Banned
Imagine you had two fridges at home: one normal fridge and a small, convenient fridge just within the reach of your arm, at your couch. Neat idea, isn't it? But you'd have to remember that your small, couch fridge needs to be refilled every time you want to play and have a beer. This means carrying all beers from the big fridge to the small fridge before playing. Now, if you have a PS4, that small fridge magically fills with beer from the big fridge! They teleport there at wish!
Now imagine that your big fridge is an X1. The beers there don't cool down as fast as you'd like them to so you have a very small freezer under the stairs. It's very efficient but it's nowhere near the couch and, sorry, no magic of teleportation!
It is now a part of DirectX, nothing Xbox specific, PCs will have PRT capabilities with it.
Basically is something like this:
Without hUMA: 8GB of RAM can be accessed by both GPU and CPU, but, if your GPU needs 4GB for graphic, and you CPU needs 2GB for logic, it would look like you have a split pool for GPU and CPU, because they cannot communicate directly.
It's different from a physically split pool because, like in PS3, with a physically split pool you have, say, 4GB for GPU and 4GB for CPU, stop, you can't go overboard. With a unified pool you can give the GPU 6GB and the CPU 2, or 7/1, or 5/3, however you like. But those two pool cannot communicate directly.
Like, say the GPU needs a 1MB of data that the CPU is using. The GPU needs to ask the CPU first, then the CPU will copy the 1MB and the GPU will use it. This takes time.
With hUMA: Everything is shared, both GPU and CPU can use the same 8GB of data in the RAM, and they can communicate directly. So, if the GPU needs that 1MB of data, it just takes it, without having to tell the CPU to copy it over it's RAM pool.
At least, that's what I understood.
Edit: Beaten by Wicked. :lol
It might allow you to be more flexible with what you do, but you won't magically unlock higher performance by moving to software-based rendering.
The point of PRT is also that the texture tiles of large textures can fit into the GPUs cache. It's not just about VRAM and main memory.
Based W!CKED.
Sure. I meant support more in terms of "accelerate" or "improve".
velociraptor
Junior Member
Fixed
At this point i think some here would probably commit suicide if they couldnt go another day without dick waving.
It's kinda hard to compare games between Xbox One and PS4 when the Xbox One games are running on PC and the PS4 games are running on PS4 hardware.
But tech enthusiasts and especially GAF will so its alright.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Then don't try to explain to others technical details.
phosphor112
Banned
MS spent a lot on their own design IIRC, and Sony worked with AMD to push toward the HSA vision that AMD has been wanting for so long. It's beneficial to them to promote the power increases that is has over other designs.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Hey. My preferred next gen console (PS4) is shaping up just nicely thank you. I just don't take the OP's word at face value and try to apply some common sense to the OPs implication.
Also. For the GPU or CPU to 'see' the updated data in real time. The respective caches still need to complete a read to the main memory pool ( I think).
I still don't see why there is a advantage over what XBO does. I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.