There are so many different explanations, other than "Alternate Dimension". Too much Dragonball Ocean Dub, in here.
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The Dark Souls II Lore Thread of speculations, spoilers and headaches
- Thread starter SargerusBR
- Start date
There are so many different explanations, other than "Alternate Dimension". Too much Dragonball Ocean Dub, in here.
The player falling down a whirlpool of darkness, looks similar to the player who is required to fall down a gate/well in the Nexus (Demon Souls) to find the old one.
The area around the Whirlpool of darkness and the Whirlpool itself, could be an interpretation of the the Nexus(a place where you end up after losing humanity/dying in Demon Souls). Similarly, the Whirlpool could be a place which attracts anyone who has lost/losing/about_to_be_turned_undead/hallow and sucks them into the well/blackness.
Which moves the player to a world akin to the area which appears to be like the beach with ruins in Demon Souls. But instead of the ruins and The Old One, there is Drangleic (mostly an island. Where others have tried to live or build, instead of leaving it in complete ruin).
The keeper in the intro mentions 'walled off land', that could mean its a land which has barriers. Similarly, to reach The Old One in Demon souls the seal in the Nexus has to be removed to allow travelling from Nexus to the where ever The Old One was presiding. Take note thou; I do not think that area after travelling through that seal/gate/well by falling from nexus is right below it, as you see a large empty space atop when you land on the beach (almost like another plane, but connected to the Nexus by something).
So that leaves this:
.the Whirlpool of Darkness in Dark Souls II, could be the same as Nexus in Demon Souls <- Does anyone know what is the Nexus's actual location in Demon Souls or even in Boletaria?
.Drangleic in Dark Souls II, could be on the another plane like in Demon Souls where the The Old Ones is present <- Does anyone know what is The Old Ones location in Demon Souls or even in Boletaria?
..and?
I don't think it is reasonable to link Demon to Dark, outside of obvious references.
ANYWAY
The Covenant of Artorias look a little like (different color tho) Darkdiver Grandahl's ...tiara?
This is prolly stretching it, but given the similarities in naming to Abysswalker Artorias, and the function in the game I guess it is worth pointing out.
ANYWAY
The Covenant of Artorias look a little like (different color tho) Darkdiver Grandahl's ...tiara?
This is prolly stretching it, but given the similarities in naming to Abysswalker Artorias, and the function in the game I guess it is worth pointing out.
Kevin Shields
Member
My theory is that he is jumping from the future into the past. The lady says "long ago in a walled off land to the north". Maybe the ruins before the undead jumps is Drangleic ruins in the future. It would make sense that the portal would be in the same geographic location.
Nothing has ever gone wrong from sending zombies into the past!
Kevin Shields
Member
Damn right
This is all speculation but I just wrote this whole thing for fun and to give a little more meaning to my playthroughs:
Dark Souls 2 Lore - The Tale of Two Lovers
In the previous age before Drangleic came to be, Vendrick was an Undead who managed to defeat Four Old Ones who posessed powerful souls. Using their souls, Vendrick and his brother Aldia kept from Hollowing and survived that age long after it passed.
Vendrick and Aldia lived in Venn where a ruler reigned as the Iron King. The king was a simple and conceited man. He held a great hunt of the Undead, killing them for sport and locking them up in the Copse. Vendrick came to him in peace with an offering of a powerful soul. The king allowed the brothers to study the Undead that he had round up. Both Aldia and Vendrick were interested in studying the soul and believed that the Undead were key to solving a greater mystery linked to the Curse: the cycles of Fire and Dark. They knew that the Undead Curse comes about near the end of an age and with each new age, came a new ruler. They utilized this knowledge to their full advantage.
The Iron King grew more arrogant, under the influence of the powerful soul. He had a wife, Mytha, but fell back in love with an old flame: a Princess from the neighboring kingdom of Alken, with which they were at war. Mytha grew jealous, and in her jealousy, she grew mad as she coated herself with poison to retain beauty that would attract the Iron King. However the poison only transformed her and in time she turned completely mad. The Iron King exiled her from the land but Mytha stayed close to her king, holding dominion over the peasants with her unnatural beauty. Out of spite, Mytha poisoned the land around the Iron King's castle, preventing him from ever leaving to visit his beloved maiden.
The kingdom of Alken was also home to a widely-known Bastille, used in the past as a lockup of sinners and miscreants. The Undead were growing rampant and the Bastille became a perfect fit for holding them. Vendrick and Aldia were drawn here out of curiosity for what were held in the prison cells. The Princess of Alken was afflicted by the Curse. Vendrick gave peace offerings to the rulers of Alken and to the Princess a powerful soul, telling her it would mend her ailing body. He gained access to the Bastille and the brothers were allowed to use it for their studies. The Princess, however, grew desperate as time went on and she did not receive anymore visits from the Iron King. She thought he had neglected her but had to know for sure. She snuck into the Bastille, where an Undead would never dare enter, and rang the Bell of Awakening at the Belfry. The Iron King heard its ring and ordered his servants to ring the Bell in his Keep.
The Princess, overjoyed at the sound of Venn's Bell, lit a hidden bonfire under the tower of the Bastille and used it to travel to the Iron Castle. The two lovers were finally reunited and the Princess learned of the king's predicament. Mytha kept a close watch over his Keep and she devised new ways to keep the king bound, using puppets and whatever she could attract with her charm. The lovers devised their own puppets but in the end, were no match for Mytha and her poison. The Princess could not stay long on each visit to Alken for she had to go back to her family in Alken. The king sensed his power waning and his kingdom coming to an end. As the fire started to fade, the lovers feared never seeing each other again. The Princess made a final visit to the Iron Castle one day in an attempt to extend the Iron King's reign.
The Princess of Alken had an idea to recreate the First Flame of old legend. It would be right in the heart of the Iron Castle and would give power back to her love. But only chaos spewed out. In an attempt to recreate the first flame, a hulking demon was given birth and with it, fire and lava burst out of every seem, devouring the mighty castle. The Iron King fought the demon but was defeated in one blow. He sank deep into the lava, his body now a vessel for all sorts of demonic energy. Frightened, the Princess fled back to Alken, and in her shame, locked herself under the tower of the Bastille.
Vendrick became ruler of the new kingdom of Drangleic.
Dark Souls 2 Lore - The Tale of Two Lovers
In the previous age before Drangleic came to be, Vendrick was an Undead who managed to defeat Four Old Ones who posessed powerful souls. Using their souls, Vendrick and his brother Aldia kept from Hollowing and survived that age long after it passed.
Vendrick and Aldia lived in Venn where a ruler reigned as the Iron King. The king was a simple and conceited man. He held a great hunt of the Undead, killing them for sport and locking them up in the Copse. Vendrick came to him in peace with an offering of a powerful soul. The king allowed the brothers to study the Undead that he had round up. Both Aldia and Vendrick were interested in studying the soul and believed that the Undead were key to solving a greater mystery linked to the Curse: the cycles of Fire and Dark. They knew that the Undead Curse comes about near the end of an age and with each new age, came a new ruler. They utilized this knowledge to their full advantage.
The Iron King grew more arrogant, under the influence of the powerful soul. He had a wife, Mytha, but fell back in love with an old flame: a Princess from the neighboring kingdom of Alken, with which they were at war. Mytha grew jealous, and in her jealousy, she grew mad as she coated herself with poison to retain beauty that would attract the Iron King. However the poison only transformed her and in time she turned completely mad. The Iron King exiled her from the land but Mytha stayed close to her king, holding dominion over the peasants with her unnatural beauty. Out of spite, Mytha poisoned the land around the Iron King's castle, preventing him from ever leaving to visit his beloved maiden.
The kingdom of Alken was also home to a widely-known Bastille, used in the past as a lockup of sinners and miscreants. The Undead were growing rampant and the Bastille became a perfect fit for holding them. Vendrick and Aldia were drawn here out of curiosity for what were held in the prison cells. The Princess of Alken was afflicted by the Curse. Vendrick gave peace offerings to the rulers of Alken and to the Princess a powerful soul, telling her it would mend her ailing body. He gained access to the Bastille and the brothers were allowed to use it for their studies. The Princess, however, grew desperate as time went on and she did not receive anymore visits from the Iron King. She thought he had neglected her but had to know for sure. She snuck into the Bastille, where an Undead would never dare enter, and rang the Bell of Awakening at the Belfry. The Iron King heard its ring and ordered his servants to ring the Bell in his Keep.
The Princess, overjoyed at the sound of Venn's Bell, lit a hidden bonfire under the tower of the Bastille and used it to travel to the Iron Castle. The two lovers were finally reunited and the Princess learned of the king's predicament. Mytha kept a close watch over his Keep and she devised new ways to keep the king bound, using puppets and whatever she could attract with her charm. The lovers devised their own puppets but in the end, were no match for Mytha and her poison. The Princess could not stay long on each visit to Alken for she had to go back to her family in Alken. The king sensed his power waning and his kingdom coming to an end. As the fire started to fade, the lovers feared never seeing each other again. The Princess made a final visit to the Iron Castle one day in an attempt to extend the Iron King's reign.
The Princess of Alken had an idea to recreate the First Flame of old legend. It would be right in the heart of the Iron Castle and would give power back to her love. But only chaos spewed out. In an attempt to recreate the first flame, a hulking demon was given birth and with it, fire and lava burst out of every seem, devouring the mighty castle. The Iron King fought the demon but was defeated in one blow. He sank deep into the lava, his body now a vessel for all sorts of demonic energy. Frightened, the Princess fled back to Alken, and in her shame, locked herself under the tower of the Bastille.
Vendrick became ruler of the new kingdom of Drangleic.
That's cool cause it solves who the princess was, and who the lost sinner was in a neat way :3
That reminds me that, it seems obvious to me that Nashandra ain't all powerful; she cannot face the Throne Watcher/Defender herself, or the Ancient Dragon, and Vendrick seems overpowerful even as a hollow.
Which brings to mind that there is a description in the game that says "Only the King knows whether the depiction of the Queen is a resentful mockery, or an affectionate exaltation.".
But I can only think that Vendrick still loved Nashandra in some way, as there is no mention of anyone trying to kill her, and the king just retires peacefully to the tomb.
That reminds me that, it seems obvious to me that Nashandra ain't all powerful; she cannot face the Throne Watcher/Defender herself, or the Ancient Dragon, and Vendrick seems overpowerful even as a hollow.
Which brings to mind that there is a description in the game that says "Only the King knows whether the depiction of the Queen is a resentful mockery, or an affectionate exaltation.".
But I can only think that Vendrick still loved Nashandra in some way, as there is no mention of anyone trying to kill her, and the king just retires peacefully to the tomb.
thelooseteeth
Member
a statue of nashandra.
Just wanted to chime in here. What an interesting theory!
He/she also wields a sword that curses you, and curses are often attributed to Undead/Humanity (see Nashandra/Manus).
Plus, get this:
The Pursuer's name in Japanese is 呪縛者 "Cursed One", or "One Bound" (by a curse/spell)
What a great thread in general. Finished the game recently and am dabbling in here while clearing up bits ready to start NG+ and get to the real meat of the pudding...
Those pillars are present in special places; under the aerie, Things Betwixt and Vendrick's place in the crypt.
Not sure what they mean.
ANYWAY. Someone asked about the fireflies in the opening, I mentioned they represent spirits to the japanese. I went to check the farfire statistics site and saw this.
http://farfire.darksoulsii.com/pc/players/index.html
The tree mural just before mirror knight, decorated with lights representing the victorious players. Like the fireflies in the beginning. Maybe there are diff teams in charge of the opening and the website, but it is still cool.
That mural is weird because there seems to be two human silhouettes on the bottom that I do not know what they are. Also the statue in front doesn't seem to correspond to any helmet in the game. Maaaaybe Syan's but it is different.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Check the multiplayer section it shows the locations of the areas in the map, basically it officially goes like this
http://farfire.darksoulsii.com/pc/multiplayer/index.html
A bro took some screenshots of the Shrine of Winter on PC
They are in order, first photo the murals from the left side, second, right side.
Dunno if anyone can make out some extra detail from them. At least the guard under the dragon (not the one 'stealing' an egg, the one in the bottom photo) is super clear now. I thought that was my imagination.
Looking on the background of the first image...that looks like Iron Keep?
Also, someone on the main thread mentioned that you can see Shrine of Amana from Things Betwixt, at least looking from where the sex change coffinboat is.
Can anyone check? I remember it being a little more illuminated, but claiming it to be Shrine of Amana seems like a stretch to me. More importantly....can you see Things Betwixt from the Shrine too?
They are in order, first photo the murals from the left side, second, right side.
Dunno if anyone can make out some extra detail from them. At least the guard under the dragon (not the one 'stealing' an egg, the one in the bottom photo) is super clear now. I thought that was my imagination.
Looking on the background of the first image...that looks like Iron Keep?
Also, someone on the main thread mentioned that you can see Shrine of Amana from Things Betwixt, at least looking from where the sex change coffinboat is.
Can anyone check? I remember it being a little more illuminated, but claiming it to be Shrine of Amana seems like a stretch to me. More importantly....can you see Things Betwixt from the Shrine too?
dugdug
Banned
The Pursuer isn't there in the Black Gulch, though, where there are *two* giants.
Finally made it to the Shrine of Winter myself with a million souls.
Took some images with a torch on and JESUS the difference.
Do you see the image on the bottom here?
It's not someone stealing an egg. It's the people from the first mural!!! Baldguy is tending to the other. I wish the stupid binocular didn't add blur on things not the center!!
This kind of changes our narrative of the mural being about Shanalotte I think? Not sure what to make of the new detail.
The other two murals don't have any extra detail that I hadn't seen before, I think
Also, this engraving in Vendrick's throne room door. Don't think it is significative
Sorry for the double post, I had been holding onto the first set of images for a couple of days and had forgotten to post them here, and just today made my way to Shrine of Winter after hella pvping in Belfry.
Took some images with a torch on and JESUS the difference.
Do you see the image on the bottom here?
It's not someone stealing an egg. It's the people from the first mural!!! Baldguy is tending to the other. I wish the stupid binocular didn't add blur on things not the center!!
This kind of changes our narrative of the mural being about Shanalotte I think? Not sure what to make of the new detail.
The other two murals don't have any extra detail that I hadn't seen before, I think
Also, this engraving in Vendrick's throne room door. Don't think it is significative
Sorry for the double post, I had been holding onto the first set of images for a couple of days and had forgotten to post them here, and just today made my way to Shrine of Winter after hella pvping in Belfry.
The Xtortionist
Member
Maybe this has been covered already, but I watching the intro cutscene again and was wondering why Drangleic Castle looks so different in it. The playable version certainly isn't old, ruined, and surrounded by dragons. Visual inconsistency or plot significance?
I've been wondering that myself.
It looks more like the Aerie and Dragon Shrine.
Which technically still Drangleic and still a work of Vendrick and co, but still.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Been thinking about this. Wondering if the vision of Drangleic Castle in the intro is from the present or in the same world which the cursed protagonist originates. Makes me think that is its current state, old and overrun by the ever-breeding wyverns. Seems to go along with the idea that the portal is through time as well as space. As if the player is going back before Drangleic was totally ruined.
Maybe that's the origin of the remark that you couldn't have heard of it; Drangleic has been in ruins a long time in the era of the old woman in the intro, its name forgotten like the rest before it.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I think its the Dragon Aerie, hence all the dragons flying around it.
On a side-note, anyone else noticed that the Last Giant and Giant Lord are oddly similar?
Kevin Shields
Member
Wait, the beginning was a picture of Dragon Aerie/Shrine right?? Man, with the PC shit is getting real. Those murals have to be important. Also the image on the coffin is intriguing. The child in the mural could be emerald right?
The Xtortionist
Member
I was inclined to think it was the castle, due to the other manmade structures around it and its general placement. Dragon Shrine is sitting on top of a crag, while Drangleic Castle is more or less rising up out of a large pit. The intro version looks closer to the latter to me. You can also see what looks like the ascending staircase to Drangleic Castle, though it isn't connected to a landmass. This would make sense if the Drangleic Castle shown in the intro was a future version.
idk, just something to think about.
Do you have any similarity you want to point out?
I think Last Giant and Giant Lord are the tallest giants you fight but that'd be it.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Their movesets are the same, granted that could be lazy development on FROM's part. But this thread on reddit was the most interesting thing:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/220fca/a_quick_idea_about_the_last_giant/
I always zap the Giant Lord from a distance so I wouldn't know his attack patterns are similar. (while I always melee Last Giant).
We've heard that reasoning before and it is interesting, because it means that the memories ARE TIME TRAVEL which is sorta way more than what it says on the tin.
We've heard that reasoning before and it is interesting, because it means that the memories ARE TIME TRAVEL which is sorta way more than what it says on the tin.
Winner
Hilarious as it is, it is still accurate.
Both Dark Souls 1 and Dark 2, and even Demon Souls, are plays on the arthurian legend of the fisher king.
The Fisher King is the last guardian of the Grail, and he has been wounded. The tales normally imply that the wound has rendered the king infertile, thus leaving him unable to provide a descendant, and thus braking the line of guardians of the Grail. Allant has a son who goes crazy; Gwyn had disowned his son, his daughter fled the country, and his other son is unfit for the throne. Vendrick simply doesn't have sons. Allant, Gwyn, Vendrick and the Fisher King must be replaced by young, healthy kings that are not his descendants.
The Fisher King lives on a wasteland, and healing him will restore the lands to their former glory. Of course in the souls games you don't heal the former king, but instead replace him, but still, cannot avoid seeing the connection between the decadence of the king, and the decadence of the kingdom.
And as with Fisher King, there is a little of the old king not having the "seed" to continue his reign, and the foreign new young king who replaces him can start a new dynasty.
edit: one thing about the Last Giant being the Giant Lord, is that you'd obtain the same soul twice. Yeah the order in which you do it allows it, but it is still weird.
e2: fuck everything!
Both Dark Souls 1 and Dark 2, and even Demon Souls, are plays on the arthurian legend of the fisher king.
The Fisher King is the last guardian of the Grail, and he has been wounded. The tales normally imply that the wound has rendered the king infertile, thus leaving him unable to provide a descendant, and thus braking the line of guardians of the Grail. Allant has a son who goes crazy; Gwyn had disowned his son, his daughter fled the country, and his other son is unfit for the throne. Vendrick simply doesn't have sons. Allant, Gwyn, Vendrick and the Fisher King must be replaced by young, healthy kings that are not his descendants.
The Fisher King lives on a wasteland, and healing him will restore the lands to their former glory. Of course in the souls games you don't heal the former king, but instead replace him, but still, cannot avoid seeing the connection between the decadence of the king, and the decadence of the kingdom.
And as with Fisher King, there is a little of the old king not having the "seed" to continue his reign, and the foreign new young king who replaces him can start a new dynasty.
edit: one thing about the Last Giant being the Giant Lord, is that you'd obtain the same soul twice. Yeah the order in which you do it allows it, but it is still weird.
e2: fuck everything!
Kevin Shields
Member
So do we agree that the unnamed hero that defeated the Giant Lord in the soul description is us? Some Terminator shit going on?
Damn, this Last Giant Lord stuff is blowing my mind.
If memory serves, you fight Last Giant almost directly below where you fight Giant Lord in the memory, implying that his "essence" could have diffused down into the foundations of the Forest of Fallen Giants area and formed that strange "resting place".
The soul description is too weighted with mystery to be coincidence. Might be worth a careful look around the Last Giant boss room...
The Drummond armour set thing definitely seems significant too!
If memory serves, you fight Last Giant almost directly below where you fight Giant Lord in the memory, implying that his "essence" could have diffused down into the foundations of the Forest of Fallen Giants area and formed that strange "resting place".
The soul description is too weighted with mystery to be coincidence. Might be worth a careful look around the Last Giant boss room...
The Drummond armour set thing definitely seems significant too!
Could Nashandra be enslaving the Emerald Herald? They both tell you to seek the king. They both send you off on a quest to gain access to the Throne of Want. It's only when you're about to actually get to it that the two of them oppose one another and here, the Herald mentions that she will be free once you take the throne and/or defeat Nashandra.
Gywndolin has a rather nice bust if that counts for something.
Why is it called the last giant if there's the ones in black gulch? Is it simply the last giant in the area?
Smelter has the same face as a giant so that's probably one too.
I think it's called the last giant because no one knows the existence of the ones in the Black Gulch. also Smelter demon is just ... a demon. the design is similar but it ain't a giant.
I kind of whised that we had more information about Shanalotte.
There is some voice acting credited to Kid Shanalotte. DLC perhaps?
That's her in the Aerie, she sounds way younger and is shorter.
Red Liquorice
Member
This isn't really lore, but more a wondering on possible cut content. I thought it possible that Cale had a cut story/questline. His dialogue seems to suggest initially that you might find him along the way as he searches through Drangleic.
Also, and I said this before once in the main thread I think - How disappointed I was in my first playthrough, after hearing him say not to go in the basement of the house - I was expecting it to lead to a new area. I imagined how you go down from Firelink into the Catacombs, that kind of thing. He's stood like 20 feet away from the door to the room where the skellies are, it's not really some big mystery is it.
Also, and I said this before once in the main thread I think - How disappointed I was in my first playthrough, after hearing him say not to go in the basement of the house - I was expecting it to lead to a new area. I imagined how you go down from Firelink into the Catacombs, that kind of thing. He's stood like 20 feet away from the door to the room where the skellies are, it's not really some big mystery is it.
Check youtube for every NPC dialogue. He might have something.
Didn't really notice. LOL
I still hold to the idea that Smelter is a demon made from a giant soul/body sent by Vendrick, to depose Iron King.
Yeah I've been wondering about Cale myself; for one, he mentions Crayghton, so he may have played some part on it (at one point I considered him to be the real Crayghton). But on the other hand, it seems his whole purpose was to sit at the mansion and call your attention to the map, so I doubt he would have moved around. His final participation in the plot is being a target of Navlaan, for whatever that is worth.
He doesn't really appear in the mansion until all the skellies are killed (one extra per NG+ level), so I guess his fear of the noises under the mansion is justified somewhat.
Her voice in the Aerie sounds a little different, but not different enough to say that it is another voice actor. Maybe it is, maybe not; however, all the sound files of the game have been checked, including unused ones, and there aren't any more that sound different so I have to assume that, barring contract shenanigans, Kid Shanalotte is the Aerie one.
This is kind of a problem with videogame plots, where it is very easy to write yourself into a situation where your character is being manipulated by the bad guys into doing their bidding. Demon escaped it, Dark 1 and 2 do not. Still not completely sure why Nashandra wants you to sit on the throne; it makes sense that Shanalotte would want it, but Nashandra should be demanding that you hand over the Giant Kinship or something. Maybe the youtube bloggers know something else on Nashandra's plan. Maybe I am misinterpreting Nashandra's dialogue in the final fight. I can make a case for Shanalotte and Nashandra's actions up to the final fight, where all goes wrong.
I have to assume that Nashandra simply wants the throne herself, being too weak to defeat Velstadt and the Ancient Dragon and the Giant Lord to unlock it; meanwhile Shanalotte wants someone to sit on the throne, just not Nashandra. Not sure if Nashandra can actually sit on the throne, or needs an undead under her control (Vendrick was the obvs candidate, and I assume a defeated player character is the other) to do it in her place.
I think they are just a sound effect. Maybe they represent your character slowly losing his/her mind, but other than that I cannot attribute further meaning to them.
They are quite distressing, but I've only ever heard them while playing with headphones and the volume p high. Wonder if there is some subliminal messaging going on here.
They were present in Dark 1 too, IIRC in certain places.
They are quite distressing, but I've only ever heard them while playing with headphones and the volume p high. Wonder if there is some subliminal messaging going on here.
They were present in Dark 1 too, IIRC in certain places.
I find them most apparent in the Vendrick chamber after you've killed him. Any sound analysis pros on GAF? lol