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Boss Doggie · Nov 26, 2015

Azure J said:
...for real? Are you really going to say this? How else could Cloud's inclusion be read?

"We're going to take the absolute most iconic face of the franchise and only mean to represent the one title in the franchise he's a part of in a crossover that celebrates entire aspects of gaming and the gaming industry as a whole."

Ryce said:
That's because Final Fantasy VII is Cloud's first appearance and only mainline role. Ryu's trailer said Street Fighter because he appears in every game in the series. Do you really think Cloud's trophies will be categorized as Final Fantasy VII and not Final Fantasy?

They would have introduce him with Final Fantasy than FFVII though. It was outright specific. And it's not like Cloud hasn't appeared in other FF games though, spin-offs as they may be.

And yes, no more different than certain MGS trophies refernecing MGSIV.

Ryce · Nov 26, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
They would have introduce him with Final Fantasy than FFVII though. It was outright specific. And it's not like Cloud hasn't appeared in other FF games though, spin-offs as they may be.

And yes, no more different than certain MGS trophies refernecing MGSIV.

All of the Metal Gear trophies fall under the "Metal Gear" headline, even the MGS4 ones. It's likely that Cloud, Cloud (Alt.), Omnislash, and anything else he might come with will be categorized as "Final Fantasy" trophies. No series in Smash Bros. is categorized as an individual game.

Neiteio · Nov 26, 2015

It will seem kind of weird if the FFVII comet is the symbol used to represent all of Final Fantasy.

On a side note, I switched to a GCN controller, and it's like Smash WiiU is a whole new game. I've improved like 100%. I've never been a controller elitist, but I think the octagon gate is making me far more precise in my inputs. Also, I guess I still have a lot of latent muscle memory from my Melee and Brawl days.

TheDinoman · Nov 26, 2015

Neiteio said:
It will seem kind of weird if the FFVII comet is the symbol used to represent all of Final Fantasy.

On a side note, I switched to a GCN controller, and it's like Smash WiiU is a whole new game. I've improved like 100%. I've never been a controller elitist, but I think the octagon gate is making me far more precise in my inputs. Also, I guess I still have a lot of latent muscle memory from my Melee and Brawl days.

The Gamecube controller is to Smash as an arcade stick is to most traditional fighting games out there. I can't imagine using anything else.

Ryce · Nov 26, 2015

Neiteio said:
It will seem kind of weird if the FFVII comet is the symbol used to represent all of Final Fantasy.

To be fair, the FOX Unit emblem didn't exist until Metal Gear Solid 3.

Neiteio · Nov 26, 2015

Ryce said:
To be fair, the FOX Unit emblem didn't exist until Metal Gear Solid 3.

Yeah, but that quickly became the Koji Pro symbol as well, whereas using the FFVII comet is inextricably linked to one game. Would be like using an ocarina to represent all of Zelda. The crystal would make more sense as a catch-all FF symbol.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is specifically FFVII, since each FF is treated like its own franchise these days, with compilations, sequels, spinoffs, etc.

Boss Doggie · Nov 26, 2015

I'm kinda wondering... back with the fake Rayman leak. What if the artist didn't out himself - would Ubisoft be forced to talk with Nintendo about it and eventually lead to Rayman actually be made?

Ryce said:
All of the Metal Gear trophies fall under the "Metal Gear" headline, even the MGS4 ones. It's likely that Cloud, Cloud (Alt.), Omnislash, and anything else he might come with will be categorized as "Final Fantasy" trophies. No series in Smash Bros. is categorized as an individual game.

Oh I thought you were referring to the in-game qualifier (the one below).

And neiteio also expressed my thoughts, FFs are treated on its own - hell FFVII is its own franchise. So yeah, I can still see it as Final Fantasy VII in label, especially when there won't be any other FF representation.

Ryce · Nov 26, 2015

I really think people are looking into the "Smash Bros. x Fire Emblem VII" title card too much. The various Mega Man spinoffs are considered their own franchises in the Mii Costume trailers, but they're all consolidated under the Mega Man umbrella in-game. Chocobos and the Midgar summons appear throughout the Final Fantasy franchise, so it'd be weird to explicitly treat FFVII as its own IP when there's a lot of crossover between the entries. Most RPGs follow the "self-contained refresh" formula, like Pokémon and Fire Emblem, but they're all consolidated in Smash Bros. And Final Fantasy VII has VII in its title, so obviously it's not its own franchise — it's the seventh installment in the Final Fantasy series.

Zubz · Nov 26, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
I'm kinda wondering... back with the fake Rayman leak. What if the artist didn't out himself - would Ubisoft be forced to talk with Nintendo about it and eventually lead to Rayman actually being made?

I don't know if that's really how it'd've played out, but it would've been hella hilarious.

What're the odds that this is happening right now with Shovel Knight?

Boss Doggie · Nov 26, 2015

Ryce said:
I really think people are looking into the "Smash Bros. x Fire Emblem VII" title card too much. The various Mega Man spinoffs are considered their own franchises in the Mii Costume trailers, but they're all consolidated under the Mega Man umbrella in-game. Chocobos and the Midgar summons appear throughout the Final Fantasy franchise, so it'd be weird to explicitly treat FFVII as its own IP when there's a lot of crossover between the entries. Most RPGs follow the "self-contained refresh" formula, like Pokémon and Fire Emblem, but they're all consolidated in Smash Bros. And Final Fantasy VII has VII in its title, so obviously it's not its own franchise it's the seventh installment in the Final Fantasy series.

Actually only Chocobo is applicable there, since the Summons, while recurring in FF, are distinct to FFVII in design. MegaMan has always followed a singular timeline though, as well as Pokemon and on certain cases Fire Emblem.

And I get what you're saying, but again, unlike those games you mentioned, FFVII is its own franchise. None of those games have a "segment" of the franchise that has its own games dedicated on expanding its own verse, novels, and movies.

Ryce · Nov 26, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
And I get what you're saying, but again, unlike those games you mentioned, FFVII is its own franchise. None of those games have a "segment" of the franchise that has its own games dedicated on expanding its own verse, novels, and movies.

Square Enix disagrees. I can't honestly say I've heard the "FFVII is its own franchise" argument prior to Cloud's Smash Bros. reveal.

Regulus Tera · Nov 26, 2015

hey, the Fitness Junkies Reward Condition?

Fuck that shit

TheDinoman · Nov 26, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
I'm kinda wondering... back with the fake Rayman leak. What if the artist didn't out himself - would Ubisoft be forced to talk with Nintendo about it and eventually lead to Rayman actually be made?

Something I kept hearing is that Ubisoft did go up to Sakurai to get Rayman in the game, only to be turned down. Probably because he didn't think Rayman was an important enough character.

What're the odds that this is happening right now with Shovel Knight?

Sakurai would most likely turn Yacht Club Games down like he supposedly did with Ubisoft, considering that when you compare the two together, Shovel Knight makes Rayman look like Pac-Man in terms of overall fame and influence.

Boss Doggie · Nov 26, 2015

Ryce said:
Square Enix disagrees. I can't honestly say I've heard the "FFVII is its own franchise" argument prior to Cloud's Smash Bros. reveal.

Back when AC was out. I remember stuff like Crisis Core, that mobile game, Dirge of Cerberus, the novels, etc.

Ryce · Nov 26, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
Back when AC was out. I remember stuff like Crisis Core, that mobile game, Dirge of Cerberus, the novels, etc.

Yeah, there's the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII. The original game was so popular that it spawned a metaseries, but that doesn't retroactively remove FFVII from the main Final Fantasy series. Square Enix considers Final Fantasy to be its own franchise.

Neiteio · Nov 26, 2015

There are people who consider Yoshi and Wario to be Mario characters, but Smash still gives them franchise distinction. Someone could argue FFVII became its own franchise within the collection of franchises called Final Fantasy once FFVII introduced a number of spinoffs in different genres, made a movie, etc. I've seen similar views of the Lightning trilogy and its associated content.

It could go either way, honestly. We won't know how Sakurai is classifying it until we have more material.

Regulus Tera · Nov 26, 2015

FUCK Kirby's Crazy Appetite

EDIT: I literally just finished it after typing this.

Dimitri LH · Nov 26, 2015

Regulus Tera said:
FUCK Kirby's Crazy Appetite

EDIT: I literally just finished it after typing this.

Your making me curious, Imma get on my Wii u and try these out, I kinda stopped doing challenges after doing more then half of them......and the damn smash tour one with the metroid made me rage quit board challenges.

Roo · Nov 26, 2015

Dimitri LH said:
Your making me curious, Imma get on my Wii u and try these out, I kinda stopped doing challenges after doing more then half of them......and the damn smash tour one with the metroid made me rage quit board challenges.

I literally stopped playing Smash Tour once I beat the shit out of the Metroid challenge months ago.
I swear it's the most obnoxious thing in the whole game.
I was this close to hammer that shit. Good thing it appeared next to me the moment I was about to give up but I was so burned out from that mode I can no longer bring myself to play it again.

IntelliHeath · Nov 26, 2015

Alistair Roo said:
I literally stopped playing Smash Tour once I beat the shit out of the Metroid challenge months ago.
I swear it's the most obnoxious thing in the whole game.
I was this close to hammer that shit. Good thing it appeared next to me the moment I was about to give up but I was so burned out from that mode I can no longer bring myself to play it again.

Man, I feel sorry for everyone here for that challenge.

I literally got it on first or second try on day 1 when we were playing the game casually so I considered myself very lucky.

MrSaturn99 · Nov 26, 2015

I think that was the only challenge I used a hammer on.

Aside from that, Smash Tour's alright. I wish they they went with a concept more akin to Smash Run, though.

DICKS AHOY · Nov 26, 2015

Rewatching Advent Children (Director's Cut version) was a great way to put a damper on things after I had a blast playing and beating the original Final Fantasy VII for the first time.

Seriously what the fuck was that shit? Most reviews complain it's incomprehensible if you haven't played the games (which is what I figured when I saw it roughly ten years ago), yet I still thought it was a total mess despite watching it minutes after seeing FF7's credits. Couldn't really gel with the voices either, though that might just be because the script was pretty terrible. The 'Remnants' gang come across as goofy Saturday morning cartoon villains and I don't think that was remotely intentional.

Still, playing through the actual FFVII gave me some proper context for Cloud and I'm really excited to see him in now, rather than just morbidly curious like I was when Snake got into Brawl. Is Crisis Core worth checking out? Before Crisis is Japanese only (and just seems like a cheap episodic mobile game) and Dirge of Cerberus was apparently terrible so I'll be skipping that one, but CC seemed like it got a bit more respect out of all the other FFVII spin-off stuff.

Regulus Tera said:
hey, the Fitness Junkies Reward Condition?

Fuck that shit

I found just constantly dash attacking the Wario's to the side helped instead of fighting normally. No matter how hard the CPU is they always seem easy to juggle over into the blast zone if it's a flat stage without pits.

Regulus Tera · Nov 26, 2015

The only challenges I have left are the Classic 9.0 ones (I've gotten as close as one master core left) and the collect 300000 coins one. Productive Thanksgiving.

DICKS AHOY said:
I found just constantly dash attacking the Wario's to the side helped instead of fighting normally. No matter how hard the CPU is they always seem easy to juggle over into the blast zone if it's a flat stage without pits.

I don't know how but I managed to get one to SD with the bike. The second one was easy to dispatch.

The luckiest event I got was the one where you have to beat Falco, Falcon, and Fox with the speed cranked all the way up in 25 seconds. Somehow they got stuck under the spring in one of the sides. Hilarious, it only took me twenty attempts.

balladofwindfishes · Nov 26, 2015

Alistair Roo said:
I literally stopped playing Smash Tour once I beat the shit out of the Metroid challenge months ago.
I swear it's the most obnoxious thing in the whole game.
I was this close to hammer that shit. Good thing it appeared next to me the moment I was about to give up but I was so burned out from that mode I can no longer bring myself to play it again.

After playing Smash Tour by myself with four controllers and not even seeing a single Metroid spawn in 4 hours, I just hammered it.

I wasn't going to do any more of that.

DICKS AHOY · Nov 27, 2015

I got lucky and saw Metroid pretty early on when I got the game but yeah, even in party environments everybody hates Smash Tour in my experience.

Weird it isn't 8-player either.

Dimitri LH · Nov 27, 2015

The one co-op event I am frustrated with is the one where you use Fox and Falco and cant let any of the Mr. G&W touch the floor.......bleeeeeeh.

SuperAngelo64 · Nov 27, 2015

balladofwindfishes said:
After playing Smash Tour by myself with four controllers and not even seeing a single Metroid spawn in 4 hours, I just hammered it.

I wasn't going to do any more of that.

I played Smash Tour for the first time in a year last night to wait out a 10-minute disconnect ban and got a metroid spawn in the 3rd or 4th round.

However, one thing I noticed about Smash Tour is that it shows the game has the ability to do what Project M calls "All Stars Versus"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnoBDZM0zQg

I really wish this was a selectable feature in Smash 4.

Masked Man · Nov 27, 2015

Regulus Tera said:
The only challenges I have left are the Classic 9.0 ones (I've gotten as close as one master core left) and the collect 300000 coins one. Productive Thanksgiving.

Yeah, the Classic 9.0 has me stuck as well. I actually got to Master Fortress as Ness way back in the day (December 2014), but I died during the very last sequence, ragequit, and never looked back. Le sigh. Just got that one left and the 50,000 blocks in Trophy Rush.

SuperAngelo64 said:
However, one thing I noticed about Smash Tour is that it shows the game has the ability to do what Project M calls "All Stars Versus"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnoBDZM0zQg

I really wish this was a selectable feature in Smash 4.

Agreed! I really liked this feature in Smash Tour, and I hope they implement a "lineup battle" feature in future entries.

Green Mamba · Nov 27, 2015

I kind of feel that Smash Tour came about because they wanted a counterpart mode to Smash Run and not because they thought it was a genuinely great idea. The Wii U version's goofy "Classic" Mode feels similar in that regard.

stan423321 · Nov 27, 2015

Green Mamba said:
I kind of feel that Smash Tour came about because they wanted a counterpart mode to Smash Run and not because they thought it was a genuinely great idea. The Wii U version's goofy "Classic" Mode feels similar in that regard.

I don't share the same sentiment about Classic Mode, but this certainly is the best explanation of Smash Tour. Too bad, to be honest - I really wonder how well would split-screen Smash Run work.

Boss Doggie · Nov 27, 2015

I never understood the complaint about U Classic mode as well. It's literally the same as the 3DS except with more choices.

Green Mamba · Nov 27, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
I never understood the complaint about U Classic mode as well. It's literally the same as the 3DS except with more choices.

Most of the 3DS's fights are one on one fights like normal. Most of Wii U's are decidedly... not.

balladofwindfishes · Nov 27, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
I never understood the complaint about U Classic mode as well. It's literally the same as the 3DS except with more choices.

lol no

On what planet is it "literally the same"

The only similarity is the ability to select a fight and even that's not even the same at all (3DS is by series, Wii U is by... whatever)

Triforce141 · Nov 27, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
I never understood the complaint about U Classic mode as well. It's literally the same as the 3DS except with more choices.

One is like the previous Smash Classic modes with an option to fight a specific series, the other is probably the most frustrating thing ever invented for Smash.

Regulus Tera · Nov 27, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
I never understood the complaint about U Classic mode as well. It's literally the same as the 3DS except with more choices.

Even ignoring the abundance of eight player and four player matches, item rate on the Wii U classic mode is turned way up in comparison to the 3DS' classic mode.

MrSaturn99 · Nov 27, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
I never understood the complaint about U Classic mode as well. It's literally the same as the 3DS except with more choices.

Same. Honestly, outside of Target Blast I don't get most of the complaints regarding Solo at all. (As are many Smash complaints regarding Smash in general. I'd say that's a good thing but it can make things very frustrating considering how heated Smash-debates can get)

Platy · Nov 27, 2015

Nintendo Badge Pink Bunny is the kind of character that would feel totaly out of nowhere and really makes sense.
That bunny has more charisma than Wii Fit Trainer, Olimar and Shulk combined =P

Also he is a perfect fit for dlc =P

PK Gaming · Nov 27, 2015

Dimitri LH said:
The one co-op event I am frustrated with is the one where you use Fox and Falco and cant let any of the Mr. G&W touch the floor.......bleeeeeeh.

Oh man

Me and my brother spent a while trying to finish that. Once we did, we both simultaneously yelled "MISSION, COMPLETE."

Richie · Nov 27, 2015

Platy said:
Nintendo Badge Pink Bunny is the kind of character that would feel totaly out of nowhere and really makes sense.
That bunny has more charisma than Wii Fit Trainer, Olimar and Shulk combined =P

Also he is a perfect fit for dlc =P

Ya want poor Link to relieve traumatizing memories?

UglyRareCharacter · Nov 27, 2015

I would just like some mode where you fight the Smash Run enemies on the Wii U and you can see all of them with cool HD models

DICKS AHOY · Nov 27, 2015

UglyRareCharacter said:
I would just like some mode where you fight the Smash Run enemies on the Wii U and you can see all of them with cool HD models

This is what I assumed was going to happen before the Wii U version released before I got unpleasantly surprised.

Seems a waste there's all these different Nintendo (and a couple Namco/SEGA/Capcom ones) enemies stuck on one version of the game.

TDLink · Nov 27, 2015

DICKS AHOY said:
This is what I assumed was going to happen before the Wii U version released before I got unpleasantly surprised.

Seems a waste there's all these different Nintendo (and a couple Namco/SEGA/Capcom ones) enemies stuck on one version of the game.

It would require a lot of extra work. Most of the smash run enemies were just taken from other 3DS games (a lot of contributions from Kid Icarus Uprising especially). Some weren't, but they were still clearly just modeled to 3DS specifications.

For Wii U they would need to do models from scratch for basically all of them.

All that said, I would love Smash Run on Wii U. It's the one thing really missing.

Crayolan · Nov 27, 2015

Regulus Tera said:
FUCK Kirby's Crazy Appetite

EDIT: I literally just finished it after typing this.

Worst event by far. So of course they make you do it on hard.

Boss Doggie · Nov 27, 2015

Green Mamba said:
Most of the 3DS's fights are one on one fights like normal. Most of Wii U's are decidedly... not.

Uh not really? They have equal amounts. I'm not sure where people get that when you can see the amount of fighters U has unlike 3DS.

balladofwindfishes said:
lol no

On what planet is it "literally the same"

The only similarity is the ability to select a fight and even that's not even the same at all (3DS is by series, Wii U is by... whatever)

Triforce141 said:
One is like the previous Smash Classic modes with an option to fight a specific series, the other is probably the most frustrating thing ever invented for Smash.

Melee classic also pits you with random ones.

The only difference is that yes, they are not sorted by series, but at the same time the 3DS also does it to certain enemies (i.e. the ones that uses Tomodachi Life as stage, you get to see ROB and WFT together for some odd reason).

Regulus Tera said:
Even ignoring the abundance of eight player and four player matches, item rate on the Wii U classic mode is turned way up in comparison to the 3DS' classic mode.

I never notice the item abundance tbh.

MrSaturn99 said:
Same. Honestly, outside of Target Blast I don't get most of the complaints regarding Solo at all. (As are many Smash complaints regarding Smash in general. I'd say that's a good thing but it can make things very frustrating considering how heated Smash-debates can get)

Exactly. I played Classic on both games and never found the frustration or difference at all. The only difference really is that you can see the opponents beforehand in U.

Chronoman · Nov 27, 2015

Clouds Icon will likely be the crystal

woopWOOP · Nov 27, 2015

WiiU classic having so many 5+ player battles is kind of annoying to me. Chaotic 8-player battles are fun in multiplayer, but when you're playing on the highest difficulty I want a little more control.

Smash Tour is fun with the way you can screw over other players with trophies before battle. It's only fun against other human players tho and they kind of fucked it up by making the last round a time based one, making it pointless to collect fighters. For example, at the end of the game player A has one fighter, player B has seven. If player A knocks out two of player B's before getting KO'd, player A still wins. So dumb.

Boss Doggie · Nov 27, 2015

Smash Tour is definitely only fun with human players. With that said it is the fastest way to earn custom stuff.

BGBW · Nov 27, 2015

I find it fun to play with the CPU if you just want a random medley of special matches.

SuperAngelo64 · Nov 27, 2015

Boss Doggie said:
Smash Tour is definitely only fun with human players.

No it isn't. I've played it with a full room of players and spectators twice. It was no fun. Which is a shame because it had the potential to be fucking awesome. Imagine Mario Party where all the minigames are played within the 'Smash engine'. Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, Homerun Contest, Trying to break the Smash Ball, Race to the Finish, Avoiding Stage Hazards, Trophy Rush, Sudden Death with immediate Bob-ombs, Boss Battles from Brawl, All Pokeballs battle, etc. It had the potential to be incredibly fun.

Boss Doggie · Nov 27, 2015

So uh Machoke and Machamp are actually naked.

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