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The Last Of Us Game Informer Details [Audio Design Interview]

I

Irish

Member
Amir0x said:
You can indeed, but it's kind of empty words if you yourself don't put yourself out there to describe how said opinions are awful and don't in fact engage in the debate. It's easy to call others out; much more difficult to articulate why and then put yourself out there :D
Click to expand...

Oh, I was just talking generally there. :p I don't really think your opinions are truly awful, just wildly divergent from my own.

For example, from earlier in this thread or perhaps from the last one, you talked about tension and how that pretty much disappears when playing 'cinematic' games such as Uncharted. Personally, in classic platformers, I never really feel any tension whatsoever because I know I'm never going to fail no matter what, so I would at least have the scene be visually exciting, something that often disappears even when the pretty much nonexistant threat of death is there. Sure, if you mistime a jump (something I've never really been prone to do) you'll end up dying, but there really isn't much consequence to that, I feel. That tension doesn't really exist for me. I would prefer the sequence to be completely crafted to provide some visual excitement at the very least. I don't know, I'm weird.
 
M

mysticwhip

Banned
i agree that the writing and plot of games don't come close to those of the master pieces of the film industry but the games have the potential and in some cases realizes that potential to create an experience far greater than that of enjoying a film's story,writing,atmosphere or characters. those experiences come from what games do best, interactivity. whether that be the tension of an extremely close multiplayer match or the execution of gameplay mechanics.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Irish said:
I am rather curious as to how ND plan on presenting the gameplay to the public. I wonder what type of scene they will end up showing off.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that the GI demo will be what we see first. That seemed to show that it isn't anything like Uncharted. I think that's what's more important for the first showing. They need to make sure that people don't walk away thinking that it's Uncharted with a M rating.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Irish said:
Oh, I was just talking generally there. :p I don't really think your opinions are truly awful, just wildly divergent from my own.

For example, from earlier in this thread or perhaps from the last one, you talked about tension and how that pretty much disappears when playing 'cinematic' games such as Uncharted. Personally, in classic platformers, I never really feel any tension whatsoever because I know I'm never going to fail no matter what, so I would at least have the scene be visually exciting, something that often disappears even when the pretty much nonexistant threat of death is there. Sure, if you mistime a jump (something I've never really been prone to do) you'll end up dying, but there really isn't much consequence to that, I feel. That tension doesn't really exist for me. I would prefer the sequence to be completely crafted to provide some visual excitement at the very least. I don't know, I'm weird.
Click to expand...

Hm this is a bit of an odd statement. Are you saying you're so good at platforming that there exists no platforming challenge to foil you? You can just remedy that by playing platformers which offer real challenge, of which there are many (I guess you disagree though?). That's what I tend to gravitate towards, usually the only exception is Mario games. And then the skill there comes from learning how to exploit the abilities for time running and whatnot.

For me, it's not that I don't want the background of 'exciting' cinematic events happening. It is that I want them to integrate it in such a way that there is real tension. I want to feel like the events are in MY control, and that should I fail to capitalize, I will die. If I am being chased down by a torrent of water, if I trip over an obstacle I should die. If I am going to jump across a roof top and barely catch on and the ledge breaks, I should have a very short window of opportunity to get off to survive. I mean, these are things that are relatively easy to implement but would dramatically increase the tension because I'd know there are consequences.

I am superb at platformers and obviously Uncharted shouldn't be, like, Super Meat Boy or something. But the window for mistakes is so massively huge it might as well play itself, and that's something that just irritates me personally because you wouldn't even have to change Uncharted or its set pieces to fix it. You just have to make the window of opportunity much smaller and you must add in the ability to require proper timing of your jumps. You shouldn't be eight feet from a ledge and then spring yourself forward and still make the jump. You should die and have your skull cracked on the cane of the old lady sitting on the bench below ;)

mysticwhip said:
but the games have the potential and in some cases realizes that potential to create an experience far greater than that of enjoying a film's story,writing,atmosphere or characters. those experiences come from what games do best, interactivity. whether that be the tension of an extremely close multiplayer match or the execution of gameplay mechanics.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely. Especially the tension part. It's what has me really paying attention to Last of Us and their list of inspirations. IF the game really is about survival, and it really has you scrounging to save every last bullet lest your life be forfeit, it's going to be an amazing, memorable and yes tense experience. The type of tension that is difficult to replicate in the same way on film.

That's why I hope they allow dying to be a constant thing, and the difficulty to be quite high. It'd be amazing combined with Naughty Dog's visual prowess.
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
Irish said:
Oh, I was just talking generally there. :p I don't really think your opinions are truly awful, just wildly divergent from my own.

For example, from earlier in this thread or perhaps from the last one, you talked about tension and how that pretty much disappears when playing 'cinematic' games such as Uncharted. Personally, in classic platformers, I never really feel any tension whatsoever because I know I'm never going to fail no matter what, so I would at least have the scene be visually exciting, something that often disappears even when the pretty much nonexistant threat of death is there. Sure, if you mistime a jump (something I've never really been prone to do) you'll end up dying, but there really isn't much consequence to that, I feel. That tension doesn't really exist for me. I would prefer the sequence to be completely crafted to provide some visual excitement at the very least. I don't know, I'm weird.
Click to expand...

Not that weird, unless I'm also weird. I like the spectacle when available, and in Uncharted, they are offered in spades. So I don't mind the "lack" of tension in those moments, because I prefer the actual over the top excitement of the sequence. When it comes to proper platformers, that "tension" turns into annoyance for me.

However, in a game like TLoU, it would be cool to have some overall tension so there's a constant reminder of how alone and against the odds you really are. I think it's pivotal in a game like this.
 
LightofRohan

LightofRohan

Member
Amir0x said:
Most of the time, I post an opinion that is extremely detailed. Then, someone else doesn't like what it says, usually because it is dissenting from whatever view they have. They will respond with vapid one liners dismissing the exercise, and then blame me for derailing the topic. It's a vicious cycle. These people don't know how to simply ignore posts they don't like (protip: you don't even need to use ignore, you can just... JUMP over a post you don't like and continue a conversation with someone else) and in fact it irritates them to no end to even have to see the remnants of a conversation with a dissenter. It's a sad state of affairs ;)

I agree everything takes its inspiration from somewhere, and I am not claiming it is a big deal. I am saying that I'm not sure what precisely is the benefit to Naughty Dog to list such masterpieces which people associate lots of positive with as a reference to The Last of Us. They obviously want us to take something away from the fact that they're telling us these movies are artistic inspirations, otherwise why tell us at all?
Click to expand...
Because Game Informer asked them, "What sort of things are your inspiration for this game?"

That's the thing a lot of people miss, most of the time these are people/companies coming up to these developers asking questions and they give their answer. Its rare they just post random videos/articles online claiming they are the best, it's usually just derived from responses to questions -- and when you are the cover story you get a lot of them.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
On the issue of platforming, I think you need a more dedicated system in order to create a real sense of tension. In the case of Super Meat Boy, I get a sense of tension not from any single jump in particular, but from the progressive nature of advancing through a level. So after dying a dozen times on one segment, there's a sudden worry in my gut upon realizing that the next part is even more difficult.

You know that you're probably going to die because you don't know how to tackle the new segment, but you still have that hope after clearing each new step that you can make it. It gives you that "Dammit I was so close" feeling once you die and try again.

I also feel that SMB's controls are strong enough that you can sometimes recover from mistakes, but it requires precise and methodical input. That's a secondary source of tension, especially if you botch a hard part, but realize there's a chance to recover but it will be exceedingly more difficult to accomplish than having succeeded in the original jump.

The problem is I don't feel like Uncharted's platforming is anywhere near robust enough to mimic that kind of tension at all, nor is that kind of tension that would mesh with their design choices. SMB tension is predicated on constant death but it is complemented by extremely fast load times and responsive controls. Uncharted is more in the Mario style of platforming, where death is much less frequent, and the time between dying and getting back to the action is a lot longer.

It would be an exercise in frustration waiting for loads if you had to die and respawn over and over in Uncharted platforming. But it would feel too gamey if it was closer to SMB design in terms of getting 'in and out'. I do think they can get closer to the Mario style of platforming, but I would be very hesitant to describe Mario games as tense. But I don't think Uncharted even has the tools needed to mimic the Mario style either.

They're limited by the fact that Drake is human, so all he can do is basically jump/move in cardinal directions. It makes the platforming so reductive and predictable that I'm not sure what you can do to spice it up. Even if they did increase the difficulty, I feel like that would be moving it closer to a QuickTime Event more than it would be moving to Mario.

In my opinion, they just don't have the tools to create a traditional platforming experience (not in terms of skill, but in terms of the limitations of their design choices and the universe). I think Uncharted platforming is focused not on mastering the system to survive the path A to B, but has been about figuring out the path to go to get from A to B. The actual gameplay of motion has always been ancillary to that purpose, but they haven't really done a good job of making that a complex, fun experience beyond "I went left, the gap is too big, so I'll go right".
 
C

Callibretto

Member
make the jump like Prinny or Ghost and Goblin games where you can't change direction mid jump and watch reviewer slam this game because of frustrating platforming. :p
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Amir0x said:
I agree entirely. Especially the tension part. It's what has me really paying attention to Last of Us and their list of inspirations. IF the game really is about survival, and it really has you scrounging to save every last bullet lest your life be forfeit, it's going to be an amazing, memorable and yes tense experience. The type of tension that is difficult to replicate in the same way on film.

That's why I hope they allow dying to be a constant thing, and the difficulty to be quite high. It'd be amazing combined with Naughty Dog's visual prowess.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree. The tension of a game like Resident Evil has been completely lacking for me this gen. If ND really makes every decision count for something it will be such a refreshing change of pace. I remember going through the original Reaident Evil games(1 more than any) and having to really contemplate what action you were going to take. Do you use your dwindling supply of ammo? Risk trying to dodge them? Or engage in really iffy knife combat and hope for a lucky strike. The perfection was the risk / rewards for any decision. They were perfectly balanced so you didn't constantly pick one over the others. If ND can do the same with Last Of Us and create situations where your success is always dependent upon evaluating the situation and giving you choices with varying risks/rewards plus the graphical sheen ND is capable of it could be really excellent
 
Z

ZeroRay

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
post
Click to expand...

In UC1 and UC2, most of the platforming was used as a break from the action and a nice diversion from the main gameplay. It was the first half of UC3 that was tiring because the majority of it was basically skill-less traversal that bores you on the next playthroughs.

I hope LoU can either incorporate tense platforming situations where you can AND WILL die coupled with GOOD mechanics, because one doesn't work without the other. At the very least, I hope it's designed the way it was like in UC1&2 (2 especially) as just a means to relive tension after a crazy situation.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Game looks so fucking good.
Just wish the protagonist was a black guy, or maybe an asian guy. It's just that the whole in-shape white guy with black hair and facial scruffiness is a bit too standard nowadays.
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
kavinsky said:
Game looks so fucking good.
Just wish the protagonist was a black guy, or maybe an asian guy. It's just that the whole in-shape white guy with black hair and facial scruffiness is a bit too standard nowadays.
Click to expand...

I agree, but lets be honest, ND is already getting out of their comfort zone considerably with a survival horror rated M. Going with unusual characters would be pushing it.
 
P

prwxv3

Member
Ricky_R said:
I agree, but lets be honest, ND is already getting out of their comfort zone considerably with a survival horror rated M. Going with unusual characters would be pushing it.
Click to expand...

The girl is unusual. We rarely get teenage girls in non JRPG games.
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
Amir0x said:
Hm this is a bit of an odd statement. Are you saying you're so good at platforming that there exists no platforming challenge to foil you? You can just remedy that by playing platformers which offer real challenge, of which there are many (I guess you disagree though?). That's what I tend to gravitate towards, usually the only exception is Mario games. And then the skill there comes from learning how to exploit the abilities for time running and whatnot.

For me, it's not that I don't want the background of 'exciting' cinematic events happening. It is that I want them to integrate it in such a way that there is real tension. I want to feel like the events are in MY control, and that should I fail to capitalize, I will die. If I am being chased down by a torrent of water, if I trip over an obstacle I should die. If I am going to jump across a roof top and barely catch on and the ledge breaks, I should have a very short window of opportunity to get off to survive. I mean, these are things that are relatively easy to implement but would dramatically increase the tension because I'd know there are consequences.

I am superb at platformers and obviously Uncharted shouldn't be, like, Super Meat Boy or something. But the window for mistakes is so massively huge it might as well play itself, and that's something that just irritates me personally because you wouldn't even have to change Uncharted or its set pieces to fix it. You just have to make the window of opportunity much smaller and you must add in the ability to require proper timing of your jumps. You shouldn't be eight feet from a ledge and then spring yourself forward and still make the jump. You should die and have your skull cracked on the cane of the old lady sitting on the bench below ;)

I agree entirely. Especially the tension part. It's what has me really paying attention to Last of Us and their list of inspirations. IF the game really is about survival, and it really has you scrounging to save every last bullet lest your life be forfeit, it's going to be an amazing, memorable and yes tense experience. The type of tension that is difficult to replicate in the same way on film.

That's why I hope they allow dying to be a constant thing, and the difficulty to be quite high. It'd be amazing combined with Naughty Dog's visual prowess.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you but it brings up something i have been thinking about. In a game like uncharted or future games which are trying to be as realistic as possible (in an attempt to emulate hollywood movies), do frequent deaths take the player out of the situation?

For me personally it doesn't but i wonder if it affects a devs decision on how hard to make games like this. I guess difficulties could easily solve any problems related to this.
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
Man said:
That girl is going to have a horrible fate with those others if you fail her.
Click to expand...

If that turns out true, I hope they give us a real choice of not letting it happen or letting it due to a greater good etc, etc.

Sounds cliché, but it would be nice anyway. I don't think ND has the balls to give us the power to let the girl turn into a cordycep or killed though. I don't know.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Ricky_R said:
If that turns out true, I hope they give us a real choice of not letting it happen or letting it due to a greater good etc, etc.

Sounds cliché, but it would be nice anyway. I don't think ND has the balls to give us the power to let the girl turn into a cordycep or killed though. I don't know.
Click to expand...
Thats pretty cliche dont you think?
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
Loudninja said:
Thats pretty cliche dont you think?
Click to expand...

The whole "she lives / dies or turns into a cordycep" is definitely a cliché as I pointed out earlier, but if they give us the choice to decide the outcome of any of that, it would be surprising considering you would have the power to let a 14 old year girl die horribly, etc.

That won't happen either way so...
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Ricky_R said:
The whole "she lives / dies or turns into a cordycep" is definitely a cliché as I pointed out earlier, but if they give us the choice to decide the outcome of any of that, it would be surprising considering you would have the power to let a 14 old year girl die horribly, etc.

That won't happen either way so...
Click to expand...
We will see I guess.

I wudl be much more surprise if no one dies really.

AgentChris said:
They both die... by the hands of the murderous Nathan Drake.
Click to expand...
Haha.
 
Shtof

Shtof

Member
Guessing this game will its share of the hate for the swearing described in the OP. I never understood the kind of hate Killzone 2 received for the swearing, honestly I'd be swearing quite a lot if I had to fight the Helghast.
 
P

paskowitz

Member
Am I the only one that is getting this feeling from The Last of Us?

i_am_legend_will_smith__1_.jpg
 
P

paskowitz

Member
I am just saying, not only the setting, but the themes seem have some thread of commonality. Obviously the lack of stupid
vampires
makes The Last of Us instantly better.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
paskowitz said:
I am just saying, not only the setting, but the themes seem have some thread of commonality. Obviously the lack of stupid
vampires
makes The Last of Us instantly better.
Click to expand...

In I am Legend, those
are not Vampires, they are an evolved form of humans,
IIRC.
 
P

pieatorium

Member
UrbanRats said:
In I am Legend, those
are not Vampires, they are an evolved form of humans,
IIRC.
Click to expand...

Kind of correct I guess
They are the results of a virus mutating the human population, this wouldn't be anywhere near the first time vampires are portrayed as humans infected by a virus, however the virus is usually transmitted via bite or blood. I am Legend was more like the a zombie story but the zombies had some traits usually associated with vampires
 
C

Chuck Norris

Banned
It all sounds good but I kind of worry about the focus on melee. Sure it will look cinematic like UC3, but really no game has made truly captivating melee combat as of yet (unless its over the top action games like Bayonetta). Though I must admit UC3 came close for me

Very interested to see if this game takes place in the dark at all.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Amir0x said:
I agree entirely. Especially the tension part. It's what has me really paying attention to Last of Us and their list of inspirations. IF the game really is about survival, and it really has you scrounging to save every last bullet lest your life be forfeit, it's going to be an amazing, memorable and yes tense experience. The type of tension that is difficult to replicate in the same way on film.

That's why I hope they allow dying to be a constant thing, and the difficulty to be quite high. It'd be amazing combined with Naughty Dog's visual prowess.
Click to expand...

There's no change this game will be any more difficult than Unharted games. Maybe you can unlock some bonus difficulty setting though.
 
B

Balehead

Member
Will be exciting to see how this thing actually plays. Are they going to block off every street with abandoned cars and direct you through a select few buildings once they let you off the linear streets and make this thing like all cinematic survival (horror) or what? And the whole sidekick thing, that's going to be hard to pull off esp. since it's a kid. I mean sure, they can make it this strong independent character but I just don't see it being any fun after a while.

Looks good though.
 
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