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Thoughts on Destiny 2 PvP?

T

theaffection

Member
D2's Crucible PvP has been a hot topic lately. Many D1 veterans believe it is a huge downgrade due to the loss of 6v6, less special abilities, and power weapons not being as much as a focus this time around.

Others enjoy the PvP for its increased focus on positioning, teamwork and overall tightness.

They got a really good base right now. More options in terms of playlists, maps, modes etc would be good, but those will come in time. It has alot of potential and is worth investing in.


Haven't played enough D1 PVP to know if its inferior though


Do you enjoy Destiny 2's Crucible?
 
H

Hasemo

(；・∀・)ﾊｯ?
I enjoyed D1's crucible for a while, but when I got bored with the game itself it wasn't enough to keep me going.

I tried D2 crucible at level 2-3 because I wanted to get gear from a quest and had terrible experience - that was mostly on me, since I was running around with default guns and barely any skills unlocked.
Now that I hit 20 and played maybe 20 games, I'm really enjoying it, it's a lot of fun.
I don't remember the D1 one well enough, but controlling power weapon spots still seems to be a big part of the meta.
 
D

Doctor Shatner

Member
I like it significantly more. The massive changes they made to the weapon system to remove things like shotty slides and super spamming have really helped give the PvP it's own flavor and tactical feel.

Massive improvement across the board from me, and I imagine they'll bring back things like Mayhem and higher player counts for events in the future as well.
 
F

FelipeMGM

Member
I personally dont like it (and it has nothing to do with my personal performance, I've been doing pretty well on it)

I just find most matches really boring. I loved the chaotic flavor of D1 PVP. Mostly 6v6 combining abilities with the weapons made a fast paced fun mp. Now all modes result in slow matches and there is little combination of abilities with weapons. And the worst part is that this slower cooldown on abilities affects PVE too

I do think the heavy weapon ammo is an interesting change tho
 
J

jett

D-Member
Based off the beta, not being able to use a fusion rifle whenever I want is gonna suck. I also kinda liked that capturing was faster the more people you had at the base in D1.
 
H

Hedgey

Member
It's absolutely incredible. Fusion rifles have never felt better and team play is incredibly rewarding. Single queuing is not recommended, however.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
It is pretty good but less fun than D1.

The weapons are inferior to vanilla D1 but I did not get all Exotics yet.

The new weapon loadout that works fantastic in PVE is useless in PVP.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
I enjoyed the chaos of Destiny 1 but I think I enjoy 2's multiplayer a lot more.

Gunplay also seems vastly more balanced, auto rifles are actually usable

I fear Bungie's nerfing of everything ever but what can you do.....
 
2

2blackcats

Member
Had fun when playing with a team, less so on my own.

I wouldn't miss supers if they were gone. I hate that everyone gets them at the same time though I can't think of a good solution.
 
M

Mesonak

Member
It's the most fun I've had playing Halo in seven years. Console doesn't feel as solid as the PC Beta did, but honestly I think the MP is outstanding and could go places.
 
FingerBang

FingerBang

Member
Spent a couple of hours in PVP yesterday, yelling sometimes at my team mates, sometimes at the enemies, sometimes at myself. It's way more strategic, you can barely use your super once and going alone means certain death.

I usually end up being first or second, which means this new 4 vs 4 mode is teaching me how to play the game, so I have to approve it.

...but FFS, this is Bungie we're talking about. Give us classic 6 vs 6, give us the 3 vs 3 modes, give us custom games and prisons. I know most of this (if not all) is coming, but why does it have to be a step back every fucking time.

I'm throwing my money at you, Bungie, stop asking me to get naked and dance.
 
P

panama chief

Member
Someone on Reddit said it best "people trying to do D1 stuff are getting punished". I see that and my bad habits are flying out the window.

I personally like the team aspect but only with my team cause we're dumb and savage and do call outs. With randoms, I only play to fulfill milestones for the engram.
 
K

KingV

Member
Strangelove77 said:
It completely blows ass. It's like Bungie went out of its way to make pvp boring and tedious.
Click to expand...

When I play destiny pvp, I feel like it is tuned primarily to make the matches run out of time as much as possible. Like they are very cognizant of wanting to make sure that players can't spin the slot machine too quickly by playing pvp. It really ruins it.

D2 is worse than the low bar set by D1. Compared to something like Titanfall 2, it's completely horrible.

IMO, they should make a play type that is like a bunch of really casual play types with fast recharges and lots of heavy weapons.
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
I've been wondering about the pvp as well. I enjoyed it so much in the first game but everything I read makes it sound like this game is a slog.

Basically if I have to stick with teammates in order to succeed, that's not gonna be any good for me.
 
S

Slammin_Hammon

Member
It's different. For me it's different in a mixed manner that results in PvP that doesn't have the same highs as Destiny 1 while also avoiding some of the lows. It's still early though and stuff can change.

Starting with the positive, there's a lot less bullshit this time around. There aren't heat seeking grenades that OHK, there aren't guns that break molds like Universal Remote or No Land Beyond. Primaries are actually your primary. People don't spend the whole match hardscoping corners with snipers.

Now for the bad. The flow of the game has totally changed. D1 was much more mobile and you could be successful constantly moving around the map. D2 is much more stationary with groups of players just encountering each other a mostly staying in the same area until death or retreat. There's also less room for success for those who like to lone wolf. You pretty much have to roll as a squad and can expect to encounter others doing the same. This makes sense for a game like Overwatch but not Destiny. Abilities charge much too slowly to the point where I'm constantly trying to use them only to find they're on cooldown. The heavy ammo system isn't ideal. Having to compete with teamates to get ammo is a drag and leads to too much waiting around. The matches almost always go to time. Finally, the UI is too busy and provides too much information. It takes some skill and element of the unknown out of the game when you can see everyone's super status, when they use it, when and where they load heavy ammo, etc.

Overall it's fine, but in some ways too many rough edges have been sanded off, and Bungie's approach to balancing over the course of D1 leaves me nervous about the direction PvP will take as time goes on.
 
P

Perineum

Member
There is just dumb design decisions to me personally.

1) I only really like playing Control. Clash makes me want to punch myself in the nuts. This game is made around team work and objectives, so the second it turns into just TDM it takes a massive nose dive in enjoyment and strategy. So for them to not let me just pick the game type I want is trash.

2) Having to triple melee someone is beyond idiotic. No game I can think of makes you melee someone 3 times to kill them in close quarters. 2 makes sense and is fine in this kind of game, but 3 is awful design decision making.

3) Only 1 person getting heavy weapon ammo is dumb. Destiny is its funnest when the chaos looms and hits. Control is a perfect example of strategy with power weapons on map. Currently you can lock down the 2 points you want in Control, and have no reason to fear power weapons pushing you off a point, because your team will get 1, and that 1 person grabbing a power weapon isn't enough to make people flee a point for a bit to have them waste that ammo, or to focus fire folks.

4) While improved from beta, I still think my super only happens once per game even when I am 4.0+KD up. Freaking ridiculous. Does Bungie not get what makes these classes fun? It's getting to rip people up with blades, smashes, and golden guns. Twice a match for good performance should be the norm. Up the rate at which it builds.

5) Matchmaking right now is cheeks. I saw they will improve it for competitive, but even quick play sucks. I am constantly first place on my team or only positive k/d, and the rest are morons who can't stick together worth a shit that feed like a mofo, which leads into 6.

6) Is there no god damn penalty for quitting early? The amount of bitches who quit out on their team is insane when they get their shit pushed within the first minute of a match. Un fucking real how bad it is, and the game never seems to add anyone back in their place.

I've been doing great in it, but the rewards are minimal and the coins you net is piss. 2 for a win, 1 for a loss, but you need 20 to get an engram from Shaxx. You are better off doing ANY other activity to try to get higher LL than Crucible in its current state.

4v4 is fine, and the maps were made for it. Far less spawn trapping in this than D1 which I am thankful for.

So OP yes D2 MP is a big step down from D1. D1 wasn't some greatly balanced masterpiece MP wise, but it was a helluva lot of fun and felt rewarding for time invested.
 
A

AllIsOneIsNone

Banned
It's better than the first, in my opinion. The maps are pretty underwhelming though.

It's still a worse version of Halo multiplayer, even if the concept of using your personal loot is really cool. Grenades look neat but they are not even in the same realm as Halo grenades...like fuck, if you're going to make so many things like Halo why can't grenades be as useful? Just make them more available with less power or radius or something, and add more bouncy physics so they don't feel so 1 dimensional.

Also, it should have had rankings, and there should be a separate "hardcore" playlist without supers. Timing super usage takes some strategy and you don't get them too much in Destiny 2, but it's still just a glorified kill streak. There's enough other shit to make the game unbalanced, supers just further muddle any semblance of skill-based gameplay.

Edit: I sort of get what people are saying about Destiny 1 being more fun...if you play here and there. I tried to get into it, and once you do that it's a fuckin' mess. Destiny 2 seems way better in that regard.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
More "balanced", and consequently less fun.

Destiny 1 PvP was always bad, but the fun element of it came from the fact that you could go into it wielding whatever you wanted and generally run around kicking ass. It was its best at launch when they hadn't nerfed the mechanics and the ammo to the ground and everything was powerful, but it slowly deteriorated into a clunky, perk vs perk mess.

Now they've changed it to this tactical Halo-hybrid to make it "more competitive" - which isn't inherently bad - but it has shifted its direction and i'm not a fan of it at all. You're forced to play the longer ranged, "boots on the ground scoping a lane" style of gameplay - like every other shooter - on flatter, more generic maps. And epic feats now rely on grenades, or picking up heavy ammo, or waiting for your super basically once a game. I used to love Halo, so it's not that I don't appreciate tactical and methodical gameplay. But Halo's strongest asset is its root as an arena shooter, which affords players the ability to shine as an individual through movement. Destiny 2 barely has even that.

It's just boring and less rewarding for the individual. I'm sure sweaty teams will lap it up though because that's really the only way you'll get the most out of it. Good luck queuing solo and carrying weak players.

The worst part though is how this change fucked over PvE. Running two primaries isn't nearly as fun as the way it was in Destiny 1, especially with how scarce heavy ammo can get now that synthesis is gone from the game. Just too much primary weapon spam, and it's not like Destiny's primary weapons are actually interesting.
 
I

Interficium

Banned
Perineum said:
The amount of bitches who quit out on their team is insane when they get their shit pushed within the first minute of a match.
Click to expand...

98029163.jpg
 
V

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
It's extremely disappointing. They took most of what was fun about Destiny 1 PVP and stripped it away to a very bland experience that's all about gun play and team shooting. If I wanted that, I could play any number of games... Destiny was unique.

I'll come back and edit with detailed critiques later.
 
R

Rizzi

Member
It's terrible, and has pretty atrocious matchmaking.
The pvp in Destiny 1 was also terrible though, so I didn't expect much.
 
M

maomaoIYP

Member
Perineum said:
2) Having to triple melee someone is beyond idiotic. No game I can think of makes you melee someone 3 times to kill them in close quarters. 2 makes sense and is fine in this kind of game, but 3 is awful design decision making.
Click to expand...
Overwatch? Melee was infinitely more powerful than guns in D1 and I always thought it didn't make sense.
 
A

AllIsOneIsNone

Banned
Yeah, melee is one of the things that feels fixed in this game. It's great as a combo with shooting or if you have your ability charged, without being overpowered.
 
T

theaffection

Member
Twilight Gap said:
More "balanced", and consequently less fun.

Destiny 1 PvP was always bad, but the fun element of it came from the fact that you could go into it wielding whatever you wanted and generally run around kicking ass. It was its best at launch when they hadn't nerfed the mechanics and the ammo to the ground and everything was powerful, but it slowly deteriorated into a clunky, perk vs perk mess.

Now they've changed it to this tactical Halo-hybrid to make it "more competitive" - which isn't inherently bad - but it has shifted its direction and i'm not a fan of it at all. You're forced to play the longer ranged, "boots on the ground scoping a lane" style of gameplay - like every other shooter - on flatter, more generic maps. And epic feats now rely on grenades, or picking up heavy ammo, or waiting for your super basically once a game. I used to love Halo, so it's not that I don't appreciate tactical and methodical gameplay. But Halo's strongest asset is its root as an arena shooter, which affords players the ability to shine as an individual through movement. Destiny 2 barely has even that.

It's just boring and less rewarding for the individual. I'm sure sweaty teams will lap it up though because that's really the only way you'll get the most out of it. Good luck queuing solo and carrying weak players.

The worst part though is how this change fucked over PvE. Running two primaries isn't nearly as fun as the way it was in Destiny 1, especially with how scarce heavy ammo can get now that synthesis is gone from the game. Just too much primary weapon spam, and it's not like Destiny's primary weapons are actually interesting.
Click to expand...


The movement in D2 PVP is super fast though. Definitely has an arena shooter feel
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
3 melees is one of the few good changes they made, because melee lunge is fucking stupid and Bungie doesn't seem to want to get rid of it.

It was 3 melees to kill in Halo CE and that game did fine without melee lunge.
 
P

Perineum

Member
maomaoIYP said:
Overwatch? Melee was infinitely more powerful than guns in D1 and I always thought it didn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Punching someone was more OP than a slide shotgun, i.e Matador to the face? Punching someone was more OP than a rocket to your feet? I could go on with weapon examples, but melee is supposed to be champ in a close quarter space. What's messed up right now is say someone is aiming down sights, and you come right up behind them. If you attempt to melee you are messing up. You need to shoot a bunch (giving them a chance for retaliation), and then finish with melee if still in close range. If you melee first, and they melee back and create space to shoot it's a mistake to anyone who tries to melee more than once.

Also, Overwatch is a weird game to try to compare Destiny to. Destiny PvP follows something more like a Halo or Call of Duty.
 
C

CountAntonius

Member
I only played the PC beta so far but I enjoyed it. I like small maps and 4v4. I play a lot of Overwatch and PUBG and i think it will have it's place in the roation. The gunplay just feels really damn good.
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
I'm doing better in this new system when I play with my friends who are also good at the game, but at the same time it's so boring and stressful since it's so reliant on you actually being good now that even though we win I have a miserable time.
 
Ivory Samoan

Ivory Samoan

Gold Member
I like it a lot more than I liked D1's Crucible, and that was my most played element in D1 (about 800 hours, 500 or so in Crucible).

Far more fair kills, for more tactics required and far less one-shot/powerspam/grossshotguns.

One thing though, they need to implement a punishment in competitive for leavers....so many, no penalty, no replacement :(
 
X

XANDER CAGE

Member
I've enjoyed Quickplay so far - 4v4 makes 3 point control much more mobile and intense, as you can't just plop four people on two points and dominate for the whole game, and I really like their goofy engram-ized take on Kill Confirmed - but Competitive sucks. There are way, way too many rounds in each set and I get bored about halfway through each match.
 
P

Perineum

Member
-MD- said:
Too many better options out there for multiplayer for me to care about Destiny's pvp.
Click to expand...

This is a really good point I agree with. There just has been tighter MP experiences to pick from in the last few years that Destiny PvP is just "there". I enjoy things like Trials, Iron Banner, etc but it's for the gear rewards that come with them. The actual PvP wasn't the hook for me in D1, although there was a period around when Taken King came out where I couldn't put it down for a 2 month or so stretch.

Destiny needs to create a PUBG game type? ;)
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
It's really, really boring. Lars Bakken making more terrible decisions for the Crucible doesn't shock me though.
 
T

The Driver

Member
It's more balanced and competitive but it's not as fun.

My question is why?

Why go for the comp market when you have a mode that is dedicated to that (ToO) and the premise of the game fights with it's design.

I don't feel empowered in D2 pvp engagements, I feel like a opportunist more than anything. My foolproof method to pvp is to be up my teammates butts, letting them draw fire and then cleaning up after them.

If I encounter more than one ping on my radar and I'm in a bad spot for a 1v1 I turn around and haul ass to my teammates. The only time I feel a bit of that Destiny spark is when I pop my super or pick up heavy and even then getting a double or the rare triple doesn't feel that impressive when the maps are this small and the only recourse you have to shutdown a player on a run is teamshotting with a rifle or your own once-a-game super.

It also doesn't make sense they are trying to cater to the comp crowd when this game is still 30 FPS and p2p on console, sorry. Trials took off in D1 because it was cool seeing high level play from dudes a cut above in a game where everyone else already had the potential to be a badass warrior. What's the hook for trials this time around? It's gonna just be an even more restricted version of the already neutered pvp.

That's not even getting into the fact that outside of the pvp design, the exotics and legendaries people are playing with are snoozeworthy. The only ones that I kinda like are sunshot and vigilance wing but even then they hardly play differently than another purple scout or HC. One is just a slightly above normal HC with firefly, and the other is a Halo BR with better handling when your teammates get owned and health regen when they do it right next to you. If I die to another guy who probably runs nothing but Nameless Midnight in his PVE setup as well as his pvp build one more time...
 
G

Grisby

Member
Sorta subpar. Especially compared to everything else out on the market right now. Feels a lot slower than D1 and pretty much 99% of my matches have ended because the timer ran out.

It's ok to pop in a few rounds and get some loot but yeah, it could be a hell of a lot better.
 
Shrennin

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I love it so much more than the first game's. Less chaotic, more teamwork. Feels closer to that Halo Magic than Destiny 1's PVP did.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
Missing the larger maps with vehicles. Hoping they reinstate a 6v6 Big team battle like playlist with larger map and vehicles.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
Really enjoying Quickplay. Competitive not so much.
XANDER CAGE said:
I've enjoyed Quickplay so far - 4v4 makes 3 point control much more mobile and intense, as you can't just plop four people on two points and dominate for the whole game, and I really like their goofy engram-ized take on Kill Confirmed - but Competitive sucks. There are way, way too many rounds in each set and I get bored about halfway through each match.
Click to expand...
My exact thoughts.
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
Why couldn't they do both?

6v6 would have been great for that itch of playing more chaotic, frantic matches.

4v4 would have been perfect for a more competitive mode.

Do they not have the resources?


If D2's PvP is actually good, I may consider it. I enjoy a nice tactical/intimate MP.

Ill tell you this: I hated D1 PvP for weapon balance (no control at all, seemed like a grind fest tied to co-op mode), super spam (no skill, just adds randomness and ruins the gunplay focus), and I think the map design bothered me too. I was expecting something much more from the guys that made Halo.
 
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