If losing access to ponies won't kill their motivation, what makes you think re-learning a new engine from scratch would make it more appealing? From what I read about the MLP project, taming Fighter Maker was a major part of the challenge, and that's been around for years.
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Skullgirls |OT| New age of Heroines
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If losing access to ponies won't kill their motivation, what makes you think re-learning a new engine from scratch would make it more appealing? From what I read about the MLP project, taming Fighter Maker was a major part of the challenge, and that's been around for years.
Chauncy Talon
Member
I just played online for the first time in months on the 360. I'm surprised that a bunch of people still play it.
SolarPowered
Member
Yeah, I knew about this way more generally at best.
I knew about this. My water related speculation came way before that reveal. I don't expect a drop of water from her at this point. We'll see how she turns out down the road.
He doesn't seem THAT big and cartoons have a knack for squeezing large things into a small space when they are squeezed.
Mind posting a video? I have no idea who or what this guy is. I personally think of Rikuo whenever water and fighters come to mind.
Kinda surprises me tbh. It should be even better if Microsoft ever decides to let the patch pass.
I'm on my phone, so getting video URLs is tricky, but make sure to check Suija stuff too - Sogetsu carries around a sword with water powers, but Suija is the water elemental spirit bound in that sword.
DiscoShark
Banned
Don't sell yourself short, you were definitely pretty solid I think. You were great with hit confirming and mixing up your offensive when you found your opponent was blocking whatever move you were doing at the time and I was absolutely free to the onslaught of High/Lows once you got your momentum going. The only real thing I felt you were missing from your game were mixups that went beyond your burst bait setup, Filia has a lot more than what you were willing to use in your game. A lot of it has to do with the way you're setting up your basic Filia BnB in that it really just doesn't give you a ton of options.
I think my go-to combo with her is :
HP -> jLK (delayed on some characters) -> jMP -> jMK(2hits) -> Airdash forward -> jMP jHK
The jHK should restand the opponent and give you a wider breadth of mixup options available to you from that point.
~~~
In other news, someone pointed this out on SRK.
Leviathan does "Dat Ass" face when Squigly does her snapback. This character is going to be amazing if/when she's completed.
SolarPowered
Member
I fucking love this game, man. You should post that in the FGW thread. I like to think that some people would get a laugh out of that.
Part 5 of 6 from my fight against Surge. Forgot about it since school was on my mind. This video turns really good towards the end. Part six is gonna have the mean comeback.
Part 5 of 6 from my fight against Surge. Forgot about it since school was on my mind. This video turns really good towards the end. Part six is gonna have the mean comeback.
Master Milk
Member
Noticed there's an SG thing on the front page of SRK now about DatAss.
I've got to wonder, do they run things by people before they do that?
I've got to wonder, do they run things by people before they do that?
Thanks for the advice. I actually saw that burst bait thing on one of the streams last week, so I had to try it out. I think I'm gonna learn some other characters just so I know what to watch out for. Once you switched away from Peacock I started losing a lot lol.
dat GGPO
Gearing up like mad for that Squiggles drive. I have a small army of game dev students here in Ottawa that are readying wallets. We gonna drop some serious mad sponduli and see if we can't reach some of your higher donation tiers. Also, that PC beta tier is going to drive donations pretty hard. As soon as I mention that everyone starts throwing up various forms of legal tender.
Also, you guys going to tell us how sales are doing in Japan? If it does well, are you going to be licensing some sweet merch? Figurines and shit sound like a non-dangerous, if tiny source of possible income over there. If the MechaFetus crew did initial designs, I'd probably buy the whole set.
I would sacrifice so many dollars to the consumer gods for a Double designed by any of the art team, I'm sure others would do the same for their favourite characters.
Also, you guys going to tell us how sales are doing in Japan? If it does well, are you going to be licensing some sweet merch? Figurines and shit sound like a non-dangerous, if tiny source of possible income over there. If the MechaFetus crew did initial designs, I'd probably buy the whole set.
I would sacrifice so many dollars to the consumer gods for a Double designed by any of the art team, I'm sure others would do the same for their favourite characters.
CrazyTank940
Member
How's this for bad luck, I've been looking for a match in ranked for the past 5 minutes, each time I get into the pre-fight ping screen, it's always this one person with 900-ish ping and then an immediate disconnect
why does this game hate me
edit- and just after that, I find a different match that runs well with 800 ping. I take back the hating me statement lol
why does this game hate me
edit- and just after that, I find a different match that runs well with 800 ping. I take back the hating me statement lol
SloaneRisette
Member
Where is that Squigly drive going to be held anyways? Kickstarter?
They said Kickstarter takes too much of a cut.
Update on the Squiggly front from SRK
More info on extra DLC chars, updates and PC version in the link above.
- The fundraiser will open on February 25th.
- Squigly will take approximately $150,000 to complete
- The rough outline of the drives goals and stretch goals are as follows: Squigly, Squiglys Story + Stage, Male DLC Character, Male DLC Character Story + Stage, Third DLC Character Chosen By Popular Vote, Third Character Story + Stage
- If the original Squigly goal is met, production will begin immediately regardless of whether or not the funding drive has ended.
- Official Squigly voice additions have ended, but interested voice actors can still e-mail Lab Zero asking for an audition script for a chance to try out.
- If Squigly is completed, she will be made free for a limited time for everyone, not just people who contributed.
- This free period will last three months and will be open to all platforms.
- eightysixed will donate 50% of sales of their Salty Cupcakes pins and $10 from each t-shirt sale to the fund.
More info on extra DLC chars, updates and PC version in the link above.
SolarPowered
Member
Can Ravi personally vouch for everything said here? Stuff like Michiru Yamane coming back to produce more music, the character being free and having a confirmed date is a big deal. It seems like making a thread now to raise awareness would be a better choice than leaving it until after the PS4 announcement when the forum is absolutely flooded.
I may need to crank a nice thread out in a few minutes. Also, could Mike post his own setup's info? It'd be a nice baseline on power that people could follow.
Send him a tweet to confirm the SRK article. There's alot of info in there besides the crowdfunding stuff for a thread.
The character being free for a limited time was confirmed by Ravi on the previous page of this very thread. :b
I think I was the one that revealed everything in the stream chat and on the Twitter, so... yes, I can confirm all of it.
The others may disagree, but I still don't see GAF-at-large caring about the IndieGoGo campaign until it actually starts.
And while I don't expect them to, some details could still change between now and the start of the campaign.
The others may disagree, but I still don't see GAF-at-large caring about the IndieGoGo campaign until it actually starts.
And while I don't expect them to, some details could still change between now and the start of the campaign.
CrazyTank940
Member
I just got into the weirdest ranked match ever. I was supposed to be fighting in the Laboratory stage, but I ended up fighting on the online searching for opponent screen. Not even kidding, it kept saying "Waiting for join confirmation" and had the spinning Skullgirls logo like when waiting to play, but it was a fully playable stage like the Laboratory
Weird man... weird.
Weird man... weird.
That sounds awesome. Did everything else display correctly?
CrazyTank940
Member
Yeah everything else showed up fine. Lifebars, round win counters (it was 1V1), proper amount of super meter, only thing was the stage itself.
Then again, after that match was done, when I went to the main menu, it had no music, so that was odd.
Pretty funny. How did the stage stretch?
CrazyTank940
Member
It's length was (I'm guessing since visually I couldn't tell, as while we were able to move back and forth, the text and spinning logo were always on the front of the screen) still normal, as I was able to use a corner combo on the opponent like I usually could
SloaneRisette
Member
Since I was teaching my friend fighting games last night and I decided to show him part of the Skullgirls tutorial mode so he could get a feel for things like blocking mixups and the like once we start playing some Marvel 3.
And he was REALLY impressed by how in-depth everything was and was wondering why every fighting game doesn't have something akin to that.
He also accidentally did some of the character tutorials since they were unfinished lessons and we were both really impressed by those, were those added with the patch?
Just wanted to let Ravidrath know how helpful some of those lessons were to my friend who's now getting into fighting games!
And he was REALLY impressed by how in-depth everything was and was wondering why every fighting game doesn't have something akin to that.
He also accidentally did some of the character tutorials since they were unfinished lessons and we were both really impressed by those, were those added with the patch?
Just wanted to let Ravidrath know how helpful some of those lessons were to my friend who's now getting into fighting games!
CrazyTank940
Member
I agree, the Skullgirls tutorials were great when I used them when the game first came out. I should show them to my friends and maybe they'll get a better feel of things. And yes, the character tutorials were added with the patch. If I'm not mistaken, a couple other tutorials were added in as well
This feedback makes me feel good, because we spent a lot of effort on tutorials and some people (i.e. people that don't need fighting game tutorials) felt that was a mistake.
We actually have an all-new, awesome way we wanted to do the tutorials, but we came up with it too late in the game to do them. But I think there's a good chance we might add combo/string tutorials using this new method in the future, as well as go back and redo the existing tutorials in this new style. If we can get our tutorial guy to moonlight on them from his new job at Bungie, that is.
And, yes, the character tutorials were added with the patch, specifically based on feedback we got from Sony. They were relatively easy to implement, but the text for them proved to be a major hassle, because of all the additional localization (and localization bugs) they introduced.
SolarPowered
Member
The smaller pubs/devs may not have the knowledge or money to make something thorough and smart while the larger pubs/devs don't need tutorials and extra work when they sell monstrous amounts of software.
shaowebb
Member
So far the only thing I see that seemingly pays homage to training players from a big developer is Nether Realm including frame data on the move list for Injustice and that wont really do what Skullgirls did which is teach players how to get good. Its really nice that Skullgirls breaks it down and teaches players the building blocks they need to actually get good. Most folks just have a few combo challenges and call it a day. Teaching mixups, blocking, footsies and meter usage is a MAJOR thing and no one else seems to do it.
Don't get me wrong I am in love with the frame data thing and praise NRS for it and helping the FGC so much with it, but I really think what Skullgirls did was something unique that every fighter should also have. After all if you need to try to draw in your big dollar by adding casual sales why not train the casuals to get good? I like frame data, but I'd also like to see the building blocks in training mode in place to let casuals eventually be able to grow and utilize that data. Here's hoping NRS and other companies adopt this sort of thing as well. Shoutouts to Skullgirls for trying to level up the casuals.
Skullgirls teaches the fighting game industry a lot really about the sort of things that players really should get. Only studio ever to develop an IPS for the sake of the meta really. I love how doing that opened up the opportunity to go nuts with the amount of options they could put into each character's moveset.
Don't get me wrong I am in love with the frame data thing and praise NRS for it and helping the FGC so much with it, but I really think what Skullgirls did was something unique that every fighter should also have. After all if you need to try to draw in your big dollar by adding casual sales why not train the casuals to get good? I like frame data, but I'd also like to see the building blocks in training mode in place to let casuals eventually be able to grow and utilize that data. Here's hoping NRS and other companies adopt this sort of thing as well. Shoutouts to Skullgirls for trying to level up the casuals.
Skullgirls teaches the fighting game industry a lot really about the sort of things that players really should get. Only studio ever to develop an IPS for the sake of the meta really. I love how doing that opened up the opportunity to go nuts with the amount of options they could put into each character's moveset.
grap3fruitman
Banned
I didn't find the training mode in Skullgirls particularly helpful. I picked it up thinking it would but haven't played since I bought it because of that.
I think this is a problem when good FG players (especially good comboers) design FG's, they think it's as simple for them as it is for everyone else.
There has to be some sort of reason why this game has so many fans and so few actual players.
Master Milk
Member
Of course there's a reason, but, no matter how many times you bring it up, it's not because the game is too hard.
What do you think the reason is then? I cannot think of any other reason why folks dropped the game fast last year, despite all the positive buzz and good features. When Skullgirls came out, it was after SFxTK, and three months before Persona. (I don't think VF stole players from Skullgirls so not mentioning that) The game dropped off around mid-May.
This is something I think needs to be heard, because I really want Lab Zero to succeed. I'm not saying simplify the game strategically, I'm saying make it easier for folks to access the strategic depth.
I can't think of any other reason, and the folks who tend to talk about this game are generally the minority of folks who stuck with the game. Locally, I've seen kinda a "silent group" of folks who love the artstyle/bought the game, but never played it/don't enter it at tournies, even though they say it's awesome. (it is largely the anime/pony crowd, and most of these guys are pot monsters at best) I do think Skullgirls is a bit unique in that unlike other fighting games, the art and music were a huge selling point- but when your game sells on its artistic merit, you are going to have a good number of folks who aren't exactly the most skilled fighting game players, especially when it comes to execution (they may get fighting games, but they won't memorize 30-second combos)
I don't think you can significantly change Skullgirls now, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a Skullgirls 2 should that ever happen, or a new IP should that ever happen. The patch did help a little in this regard, and I do think it was a step in the right direction.
darkblade77
Member
The enormous patch deadzone post-announcement(thanks to layoffs and being unable to talk about that situation) is the driving reason, IMO. Long-term, the uncertainty of the game getting support and/or additional content also contributed. However:
I agree with this sentiment 300%. This is why while I feel the tutorial system is amazing relative to the competition, it needs to be much better--and this doesn't just apply to SG, but fighting games in general. We live in an age where people want things that are easily explained and understood, and most FGs barely acknowledge that. The draw of competitive play for participating in any game isn't something you can easily discover without a degree of existing similar experience, or an environment that supports you gaining that experience--whether that is an online or offline environment.
Master Milk
Member
Probably the biggest reason there aren't a lot of players now is because there were never a lot of players to begin with. Stop comparing the SG scene to ones with games that have sold five, ten, twenty times the amount. I doubt the percentage of people that play SG regularly is too different when compared to the percentages of other fighters, but when you look at raw numbers then yea, SG can seem lacking.
I'm not comparing it to Capcom games- I'm comparing it to Arc games, Arcana, and KOF- which is a fairer comparison. Two months after launch, it was a lot easier to find matchups for those games over Skullgirls, and the drama wasn't known back then, so that wasn't a factor. Those games had some name recognition advantage, but Skullgirls had an inherent community advantage with its aesthetics and really smart interaction with the community, which compensated for the difficulties of a new IP.
The fact that Skullgirls was able to raise so much money for the EVO donation drive, despite not a large amount of players- that says that there is a lot of interest for the game, people like it, but people aren't playing it. You gotta make people want to play it.
I'm not saying these things because I want Lab Zero to fail- I want them to sit on piles of cash and laugh at me. Despite my objections, they took my money and I feel good about it, and I'll donate to their DLC drive and doubledip for the PC version. I believe in Lab Zero. I just think that in future, they need to think about a wider audience gameplay-wise.
I know a lot of people dropped it to wait for the next patch, which we were hearing word of around May. The change list was already huge by that time, so many stopped to play the patched version.
Problem was that the patch took 8 months to out. Hype died, other games came out, and the development team had their own issues. Was the worst thing to happen to the game.
Problem was that the patch took 8 months to out. Hype died, other games came out, and the development team had their own issues. Was the worst thing to happen to the game.
Master Milk
Member
I didn't say anything about Capcom games. Are you honestly suggesting that these games you've listed have only moved around 100k? Mind you, that's now. When the game first came out, a month or two after that SG might have been at what, 70 or 80k since it did around 50k opening week? And Arcana? Really? Who's playing that?
Goodness no. The aesthetic was the source of so much unnecessary drama it's not even funny. That look certainly didn't guarantee them anything. Interacting with the community was a good thing, but there's no way that completely compensated for any of their difficulties.
I'd like to see someone else complaining about the game being too hard before they even think of changing how it plays.
darkblade77
Member
Malajax nailed it. Same thing happened to Blazblue; patch hell for BBCS and BBCS2 really strangled the community turnout. Arguably BBCP's release is strangling CS:E now(though I'd say everyone hating how CS:E turned out, it being a separate-sold game instead of a patch, and P4A release are bigger factors).
Gameplay doesn't need to change. The gulf of general non-understanding between not knowing the basics, knowing the basics, and knowing how to improve at the bleeding edge level of play does.
Gameplay doesn't need to change. The gulf of general non-understanding between not knowing the basics, knowing the basics, and knowing how to improve at the bleeding edge level of play does.
I'm not saying the core gameplay needs to change, what I'm saying is that combos need to change. What you are describing is largely due to combos, especially if a game is attracting a large number of folks who aren't tournament players, and I still think SG's appeal is largely its art/music/design. (it turned off some folks, but I loved it- in fact, if it wasn't for the artwork/music, I wouldn't have given the game a chance)
darkblade77
Member
The way the game is played now, I don't think combos are a problem. There was that 3-character-swap make-a-sandwich combo pali made, but most competitive matches so far haven't opted to go that route. And odds are, if the meta starts to lean that way again I expect that another IPS patch would be headed out(if the team had the resources to do another patch, anyway).
If you're talking about a game where knowing really high-end combos is a driving part of competitive play... I think UNIB or KOF13 are better fits than SG.
If you're talking about a game where knowing really high-end combos is a driving part of competitive play... I think UNIB or KOF13 are better fits than SG.
shaowebb
Member
KOF 13 especially. A lot of folks simply forego HD combo grinding in it due to the netcode making it too difficult to do most of the good ones. If the steam version hits with good netcode its gonna blow up the online Meta for that crowd. If you got locals to run with though some of the HD combos in that game are intense to watch and even more impressive once you realize the inputs that were required alongside of all the cancel timing. Shortcut abusing is a must on some of them.
Its one of the reasons I'm glad Skullgirls decided to keep it simple on inputs. Why make things any harder than they already are for tight timing combos?
SolarPowered
Member
I'm still waiting for lobbies and spectator. All the power to make things happen was put in the hands of TOs and the offline scene, but not necessarily because Mike and the team wanted to. It's just the thing to do for fighting games. I felt like the game's online scene wouldn't last long because of that even if we have GGPO. Stuff like lobbies and spectator makes it easy to set things up and get multiple people watching and being part of the fun whereas 1v1 is just two dudes sitting in the dark if they aren't at Next Level, Frootsii's or Super Arcade. ASW played it smart since they had the money and made a hell of an effort on the online front with their lobbies/netcode and it carried BlazBlue far longer than the offline scene ever did(not that Aksys' release schedules helped...). Shoot, even Vampire has enjoyed a resurgence with weekly streams that can only be made possible by spectator and the expanded lobbies of GGPO. I'd like to see that sort of online push for Skullgirls II from the very start.
Everything went dark during the Summer. I knew it would hurt the game's image of long term support, but there was nothing anyone could do except wait.
Was not at EVO. There is no other reason.
I'm still waiting for combo trials ala BB that I can easily reset at the press of a button. I know Mike isn't too fond of those, but they work best for someone who already has a solid foundation with fighting games. Doing the trials helps me get a feel for what moments work best for surprise grabs, resets and damage. Shoot, he can use the trials to teach us more advanced resets and burst bait techniques like the stuff he pulls off with Cerebella. Without those trials I don't go outside of my comfort zone of Parasoul and Peacock because everyone is just so different.
True
Everything went dark during the Summer. I knew it would hurt the game's image of long term support, but there was nothing anyone could do except wait.
Sorry, but I don't believe that.
Not gonna hold my breath on that one. They don't have any examples of amazing or even good netcode as far as I know and making that jump from crap to good is not a simple process. It's taken Capcom forever to get from crap to a decent implementation of GGPO and they are STILL behind compared to Iron Galaxy's efforts on the remixes/resurrections.
Shorter combos are easier for folks getting into a game to learn.
I agree with you on French bread/KOF being worse examples. Skullgirls the problem isn't so much the combos are hard, but that they're long. What makes things a bit worse in Skullgirls is that it's a little easier to get opened up in SG as compared to KOF or those other games.
DiscoShark
Banned
Whoa guys! Just noticed this but on the PSN Gamer's choice awards Skullgirls is nominated for Best Competitive Multiplayer! Throw your votes in and support it!
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/02/19/psn-gamers-choice-awards-2013-nominees-voting-opens-today/
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/02/19/psn-gamers-choice-awards-2013-nominees-voting-opens-today/
Thanks for posting this - wasn't able to get to it yesterday, but spammed it out today.
darkblade77
Member
Speaking of good news, guess who's in first place on JP PSN?
http://www.jp.playstation.com/psn/store/magazine/
http://www.jp.playstation.com/psn/store/magazine/
Hmm...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514484
We're pretty excited about this!
Cyberfront seems surprised by it, too. Trying to figure out how to sustain it, like see if we can get some additional coverage in Famitsu or do interviews and whatnot.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514484
We're pretty excited about this!
Cyberfront seems surprised by it, too. Trying to figure out how to sustain it, like see if we can get some additional coverage in Famitsu or do interviews and whatnot.