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In 2017, Peter Parker isn't really an underdog anymore

S

Shaanyboi

Banned
aly said:
There is no pleasing some people. A friend of my said that the lack of Uncle Ben almost ruined the movie. I have no idea why some people want to get beaten over the head again and again over Uncle Ben/ The Waynes are dead! Isn't this sad!!!
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*Cut to Peter and Ned building a Lego Death Star*

NED: Hey, pass me the 2x4 brick over there? The grey one?

PETER: Sure.

*Peter passes the brick to Ned*

NED: Okay, next let's start putting the green laser beams on--

PETER: MY UNCLE BEN IS DEAADDDD BECAUSE OF MEEEEEE WITHGREATPOWERCOMESGREATRESPONSIBILITY THIS IS MY GIFTTHIS IS MY CURSE
 
L

LionPride

Banned
I think if Peter listened to XO Tour Liif3 all the while crying at a photo of Uncle Ben while being yelled at by his peers people would be fine
 
S

Sojgat

Member
aly said:
There is no pleasing some people. A friend of my said that the lack of Uncle Ben almost ruined the movie. I have no idea why some people want to get beaten over the head again and again over Uncle Ben/ The Waynes are dead! Isn't this sad!!!
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Because it's basically all they know about the character.
 
W

wazoo

Member
MY main issue is that in the film nothing is really important.

He is missing the finale of the academic competition, which is a very big deal for Liz. She is so angry at him that she date him for the prom bal.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
Shaanyboi said:
tyler-down-13-reasons.jpg
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That would be a weird take.

Glass Rebel said:
The criticism for Holland's Peter rings as hollow as some for Maguire's. As good as the first two are, the worst thing Raimi's movies did for the character is sell this image of an awkward character who is ridden by guilt. If you want a Spider-Man who's centered around Uncle Ben's death, Raimi gave you three of that. It was one of its strengths but also a weakness. I never got the impression that Tobey-Man wanted to actually be a superhero; Ben's death wasn't only the impetus to don the costume, it was the driving force. Holland on the other hand actually wants to be Spider-Man.
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Oddly enough, this is one of the things that separates Homecoming from the original stuff. Early Peter rarely seems to enjoy the idea of Spider-Man when he's not Spider-Man. Like, when he's fighting as Spider-Man, it like he's having fun and getting out all the stress. When he's Peter though, he's either fixing his life from all the Spider-choices or later, caring for his slowly-dying Aunt.

That's why I say the people in his life actively seek him out. They go above and beyond to address Peter's shortcomings as a person. The edifice of that Lee/Ditko stuff doesn't work. In real life, Peter would have utterly destroyed any human relationships he would've had. In their Marvel Universe, these people literally throw themselves at Peter Parker. He's never an outcast because people won't leave him alone.

It's why they dispense with secret identity in most modern versions to some degree. Giving him someone to talk to and someone to cover for his mistakes. It's makes the fact that Peter Parker is flaky as hell, but still has a consistent supporting cast more believable.
 
R

Raziel

Member
aly said:
There is no pleasing some people. A friend of my said that the lack of Uncle Ben almost ruined the movie. I have no idea why some people want to get beaten over the head again and again over Uncle Ben/ The Waynes are dead! Isn't this sad!!!
Click to expand...

Instead you get beaten over the head again and again with "Tony Stark keeps treating me like a kid!" "I lost the Stark internship" "I hope Tony doesn't find out!"
 
G

G-Fex

Member
I really hated the Raimi movies for that. Like Raimi went super overboard with that shit, everybody and all of nature and the forces of reality were there to clown on Parker or treat him badly in almost a parody fashion like that of the beginning of The New Guy.

I mean, for fuck's sake in Spider-man 3 Raimi had college kids shooting spitballs at Peter in a fucking college class. With grown ass adults ..doing that? Come on.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
MHWilliams said:
Liz and Betty too.





Ditko seemed disinterested in the lanky, creepier Spider-Man around issue 17. I'll never know if that was his choice of Lee capitalizing on Spider-Man becoming more popular.
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I think that was a result of Peter getting older and stronger. Ditko drew Spidey on the slimmer side for a few issues and started rounding him out but he never gave him a Superman/Captain America body type like Romita
 
S

Slayven

Member
Professor Beef said:
The closest thing to a joke I heard from Spidey's mouth in 3 Raimi movies was in #2 during the bank scene.

Ock: "You're getting on my nerves."
Spidey: "I have a knack for that."

The video games had him joking more, apparently.

Spider-Man: "Shocker, you look good! Have you been re-upholstered?"
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Superior-Spider-Man-31-1.png
 
J

Jumeira

Banned
I don't think we've see a 15 yr old PP. Raimi Peter is still much more relatable, and he doesn't have other superheros to lean on, he figures it out himself through strong principles instilled by his Uncle/Aunt. He didn't get credibility by being tied to a known megastar like Iron Man.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
Look, I've not going to say anyone's view of Spider-Man is wrong. The character has been around long enough that he can go in many directions. Which is to say, if this hardline outcast is how you see the character, sure.

I'm just always perplexed as to where a perception has actually come from. Like, what is the genesis? Comics? Cartoons? Games?
 
S

Sojgat

Member
MHWilliams said:
Look, I've not going to say anyone's view of Spider-Man is wrong. The character has been around long enough that he can go in many directions. Which is to say, if this hardline outcast is how you see the character, sure.

I'm just always perplexed as to where a perception has actually come from. Like, what is the genesis? Comics? Cartoons? Games?
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It's just Tobey in the Raimi movies.

I don't know where else they could be getting it from.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
MHWilliams said:
So, given the panels I offered, what should they have changed to make him more underdog?
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I wouldn't have made Ned Leeds his best friend. I would have kept him as the odd man out who no one really understands so he has to carry his secret alone.

More worry & self involvement with his peers actually feeling snubbed by his flakiness, like in the early issues, rather than just "we know you got stuff going on Peter"

I don't mind it much, but the Stark suit was probably too much where a nice SHEILD made non tech joint would have kept him more grounded.

More introversion in that way a neurotic person might talk to himself or spend too much time in his own head/world. More worry about May & money.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
MHWilliams said:
Look, I've not going to say anyone's view of Spider-Man is wrong. The character has been around long enough that he can go in many directions. Which is to say, if this hardline outcast is how you see the character, sure.

I'm just always perplexed as to where a perception has actually come from. Like, what is the genesis? Comics? Cartoons? Games?
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For real. I like Spidey. I'm more familiar with the movies, cartoons, and video games, but I also know that his origins were the comics and that those have evolved over literal decades. Saying his only character trait(s) in future adaptations should be ____ is just...I dunno, dumb?

And since I brought up the cartoons, can I just say that for as low-budget as the Fox cartoon was, the use of Uncle Ben in the finale was aces?
 
D

Dirtyshubb

Member
The two biggest hard core comic fans i really get annoyed by online are Superman and Spiderman.

Both fan bases have a lot of people (not all of course) that simply seem to want to see that same thing over and over again and consider any sort of change an affront to humanity.

Costumes 1% different visually? Its a travesty.

Character explores different themes and questions other than what they always do? Character is butchered.

Dont think i have seen any other character get as much objection to doing anything slightly different with them then these 2 characters.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
Elegant Weapon said:
I wouldn't have made Ned Leeds his best friend. I would have kept him as the odd man out who no one really understands so he has to carry his secret alone.

More worry & self involvement with his peers actually feeling snubbed by his flakiness, like in the early issues, rather than just "we know you got stuff going on Peter"

I don't mind it much, but the Stark suit was probably too much where a nice SHEILD made non tech joint would have kept him more grounded.

More introversion in that way a neurotic person might talk to himself or spend too much time in his own head/world. More worry about May & money.
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I get you. I don't have a problem with what they did onscreen, but I don't really have a problem with any of this either.

Mostly just wanted to correct this idea that "X is what Parker/Spider-Man is".
 
H

hodayathink

Member
wazoo said:
The fact that his quiz team has all the hot girls of the high school is also funny and geek.
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I'm calling bullshit on this right now. Zendaya is portrayed as hot at any point in the movie, even though I was expecting them to. Like, we know she's hot in real life, but in that universe she is, no pun intended, a plain Jane. And even if we accept Liz to be the hottest girl in school, first of all, it's a school for geniuses, so of course even the hot girls would be smart, and second, we don't see anywhere near enough of the school to summarily say that all the hot girls are on the quiz team.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
MHWilliams said:
Look, I've not going to say anyone's view of Spider-Man is wrong. The character has been around long enough that he can go in many directions. Which is to say, if this hardline outcast is how you see the character, sure.

I'm just always perplexed as to where a perception has actually come from. Like, what is the genesis? Comics? Cartoons? Games?
Click to expand...

Ultimate Spider-Man define the character as much as anything, to me. That Peter was the best, imo. He lost his temper. He talked to himself. He wasn't liked by everyone but one guy.

MHWilliams said:
I get you. I don't have a problem with what they did onscreen, but I don't really have a problem with any of this either.

Mostly just wanted to correct this idea that "X is what Parker/Spider-Man is".
Click to expand...

this thread is more about what Peter isn't. I don't really have a major problem with Homecoming or anything they did in it, I just think the character has lost the omph that translated when I was younger.
 
P

paradise_circus

Member
Elegant Weapon said:
Ultimate Spider-Man define the character as much as anything, to me. That Peter was the best, imo. He lost his temper. He talked to himself. He wasn't liked by everyone but one guy.



this thread is more about what Peter isn't
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he was in the span of some weeks and months the hottest guy in highschool though. my memories aren't that fresh but homecoming seems to be pretty in line with ultimate.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
paradise_circus said:
he was in the span of some weeks and months the hottest guy in highschool though. my memories aren't that fresh but homecoming seems to be pretty in line with ultimate.
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That's an extended moment of Spider-dickishness: joining the basketball team after getting powers.

He joined the team and then quit, losing any status he gained. Flash & Kong were back to being in his face about it, iirc
 
M

marcbret87

Member
Rosstimus said:
This video sums up the movie's tone pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC_AqezinXM

Its a safe feeling, fluffy, feel-good film that eschews anything sad, pathetic, or pitiful about Peter Parker (even Uncle Ben's death doesn't get so much as a mention). This a Spider-Man that's been put through the MCU machine. These movies are simple, light, and disposable to a fault.
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I'd guess this is because this movie is not an origin for Spiderman, this is him learning to be a better Spiderman. Personally, I like the direction they have taken. The Raimi movies were good, but I felt they were too serious. Despite all the tragedy, Peter always has a positive attitude in line, and there is this sense of wonder, a kid suddenly discovering a whole new world and being amazed at every turn. To me, this is what Peter Parker/Spiderman embodies.
 
S

Seesaw15

Member
Who am I? You sure you want to know? The story of my life is not for the faint of heart. If somebody told you it was a happy tale, if somebody said I was just your average guy, not a care in the world... SOMEBODY LIED.
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f510228405821853c556ced0d63e5bd2.jpg
 
M

Mr. X

Member
So a lot of posters remember the movie Spiderman and think that's what he's always been? 90s Cartoon Spiderman was a nerdy stud. Amazing Spiderman Peter wasn't broke and awkward either iirc. The consistent traits are him being smart, overly worried about Aunt May and a smart ass.
 
hemo memo

hemo memo

Gold Member
Rosstimus said:
This video sums up the movie's tone pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC_AqezinXM

Its a safe feeling, fluffy, feel-good film that eschews anything sad, pathetic, or pitiful about Peter Parker (even Uncle Ben's death doesn't get so much as a mention). This a Spider-Man that's been put through the MCU machine. These movies are simple, light, and disposable to a fault.
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This is a Spider-Man in 2017 and they did it best.
 
P

paradise_circus

Member
Elegant Weapon said:
That's an extended moment of Spider-dickishness: joining the basketball team after getting powers.

He joined the team and then quit, losing any status he gained. Flash & Kong were back to being in his face about it, iirc
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but that phase was while uncle ben was alive? he pretty much was only bullied by flash while mj was standing up for him and liz as well. the rest of the class were just guys he happens to know about them and vice versa.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
Elegant Weapon said:
In Homecoming, Peter seemed well liked and even had a best friend to confide his secrets in, something Peter Parker has never had in any other medium that I can remember.
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I'm going to assume the metric on this is 'that isn't another superhero, or a love interest', otherwise it does rather break down. Particularly for the Ultimate Spider-Man incarnation, where several of the X-Men go to school with him, he dates Kitty Pryde at one point, and MJ still knows, even while he's still in High School. Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends had him living together with Iceman and Firestar, and all knew each other's secret identities. Similar situation with the recent Ultimate Spider-Man animated series, where he has a whole team who knows who he is and vice versa. MJ also learns his secret (as do quite a few people in the series) in time.

So to some extent Neds' position within the mythos is rare, but in others, it's been standard a while.

Otherwise while I'll agree Peter's situation isn't as outright extreme as previous incarnations, I'd say he's still plenty the underdog. It's just a lot of it is down to background frustrations, 'work' balance, and denial of opportunities, which combined with the particular nerdiness of the whole thing makes it feel like a fantasy for university students if anything.
 
K

Kuroi Gogeta

Member
MHWilliams said:
Peter Parker's issues in the comics, outside of Flash, are mostly from his consistent and constant failure to balance his life as Spider-Man with his life as Peter Parker. Spider-Man could solve Peter's problems, but to do so would negate the lesson he learned at Uncle Ben's death. So, Spider-Man is a selfless hero, but that same selflessness causes his life as Parker to suffer.



That's it. That's the core of Spider-Man.

Let's look at early Spider-Man (IMAGE HEAVY, click the images to enlarge), and thus early Peter Parker.



Amazing #1: Back to Peter is his day-to-day. Bullying? Nah, he opts out on his own. Why? So he can make some money as Spider-Man. (Yep, he doesn't give that up immediately after Ben dies.) In fact, if you look at all the early Amazing issues, Parker is a part of the Flash clique, except he has to dip constantly and Flash always gives him a hard time.



In two issues, Parker has a job at the Bugle as Spider-Man photographer - remember he's in high school - and as the top scientist in his class, professors are always asking him to join them. And what? He gives Flash as much as he gets? Shock!



What about that blonde girl? Liz Allen! Oh wait! Let's jump to Amazing #4. He has a date with her. He blows it because of Spider-Man stuff, but again, he has a date with Liz Allen! Even at the end when Flash is throwing shade, Liz tells him to stop.



Amazing #7: Here's Peter taking a break from highschool and Spider-Man problems to mack on Betty Brant, the Daily Bugle's secretary.



In ASM (the film), people got in on the scene where Peter with power publicly takes on Flash, except, you know that happened in the comics. Again, this is issue #8, where Peter is openly fighting with and making fun of, Flash Thompson.



Flash even starts to soften (Issue #9), but alas Peter's too busy thinking about other stuff and he gives him the cold shoulder. Same issue, Pete's already A) hot, because Flash crushed his glasses and B) in a relationship with Betty.


Liz and Flash comes visit his aunt in the goddamn hospital!



Issue #12: Liz steps up again to make a play. Peter shoots her down, because he's dating Betty.

This is 12 issues in, if you don't count Amazing Fantasy. By #15 he has two women fighting over him almost full time (Liz and Betty hate each other). That's how long Peter Parker was a sad sack in the way that some see him. It's a flanderization, pure and simple. People have this conception of Spider-Man that simply doesn't match up to anything and Raimi's films were a part of that.
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Great analysis. I think that for a lot of people who didn't like homecoming but preferred the Raimi films, they resonated with the image of the "suffering hero" What I always remembered of Peter Parker was that he was more or less a regular guy who loved science but didn't have much of a social life. I think in Homecoming what we got was a version of Peter Parker that isn't too cool and likeable that he would be the popular kid in your school like the Marc Webb version, but isn't a punching bag like the Raimi version. Raimi puts spiderman through physical, mental, emotional, spiritual pain and you're supposed to appreciate his endurance and tenacity. That version of spiderman is good, but there is room for another version that doesn't have to go through such vicious challenges.

I've noticed these elements of young spiderman:
1.Peter has to choose between being spiderman and having friends and a normal life. The responsibility becomes a burden but he ultimately has to choose to be mature and do whats right.
2.Peter is not someone blessed with a lot of advantages outside of his intelligence and his powers. His intelligence isn't respected, and his powers must be secret.
3.Peter is an optimist, and tries to see the good side in people
4.Peter isn't taken seriously and has to prove that what he has to say matters like any other teenager.

In homecoming we get to see that. We get to see him miss out on some fun because he has to do the right thing, we get to see him deal with the fact that people he respects think he's not cut out for being a big time super hero yet, we get to see how he's aching to tell his crush that he's spider man but knows he can't. He shows mercy to his enemies and goes out of his way to avoid seriously harming them. This version is kind of more in line with the times when it comes to his intelligence though. Today a lot of kids think being smart is cool, and science and knowledge are pervasive because of the internet, and he goes to a magnet school in this version so the kids actually want to be there. With the kind of bullying that Parker gets in the Raimi films, you have to end up asking "why doesn't this guy become a villain? or a punisher-like anti-hero?"
 
S

Sgt. Kabukiman

Banned
I only identify with tokusatsu Spider-Man.

But seriously, while I don't mind that Parker has aged in the comics, I would prefer if he was closer to his modest origins, like a teacher or something. I really liked that part of the early Straczynski run.

The complaints about Raimi's Spider-Man always amuse me. There are as many interpretations of Spidey as there are writers who worked on the character throughout the years and he completely nailed Parker as far as I'm concerned. I remember coming out of Spider-Man 1 utterly shocked that he had captured everything I loved about the 70s reprints I read as a kid so perfectly. Well, except for the Goblin costume of course. It's not YOUR Spider-Man? Fine. But it's still Spider-Man, regardless of the amount of jokes.
 
S

Sojgat

Member
Remember the time Peter turned feral and went around hissing at everyone because he thought he was actually a man-sized spider? They should make 5 movies about that too.
 
K

Kuroi Gogeta

Member
I think it's also worth mentioning that the fact that this spiderman is aware of other super heroes DRASTICALLY would change his character. As far as anyone knew in the other movies, spiderman is the only hero in the world.

Think about how ANY teenager would react to finding out they A. Have super powers and B.Know other people who do. Like 90% of their time would be spent thinking about how cool it would be to hang out with those super heroes. It's a very realistic take on how a teenager who is easily influenced might behave in a world where his heroes are only a phone call away. Kids these days want to be famous, and they want to document their lives. Spiderman Homecoming perfectly captured this.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
JMS making Peter a substitute teacher was probably my favorite thing about his entire run. It's basically a perfect job for the character in so many ways


Kuroi Gogeta said:
I think it's also worth mentioning that the fact that this spiderman is aware of other super heroes DRASTICALLY would change his character. As far as anyone knew in the other movies, spiderman is the only hero in the world.

Think about how ANY teenager would react to finding out they A. Have super powers and B.Know other people who do. Like 90% of their time would be spent thinking about how cool it would be to hang out with those super heroes. It's a very realistic take on how a teenager who is easily influenced might behave in a world where his heroes are only a phone call away. Kids these days want to be famous, and they want to document their lives. Spiderman Homecoming perfectly captured this.
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I only mentioned Raimi to say I liked his characterization of Peter as an outcast. Other than the five films before Homecoming, I expect Spider-Man to exist in a world full of other superheroes
 
B

black070

Member
Honestly have no idea what peoples problem is with the Stark/Peter relationship. It makes so much sense in the MCU and is handled really well. Spider-Man doesn't feel any less of a hero, nor does he ever get upstaged.
 
S

Sojgat

Member
black070 said:
Honestly have no idea what peoples problem is with the Stark/Peter relationship. It makes so much sense in the MCU and is handled really well. Spider-Man doesn't feel any less of a hero, nor does he ever get upstaged.
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I thought it was great, and I went in expecting to hate it (Tony Stark sucks).

The only part I didn't like was
the puddle of inspiration with Tony's voice.
It was way too much. Should've just left that moment silent.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
this thread is more this

lazygecko said:
Modern day Peter Parker would spend his time sulking on Reddit and 4Chan turning into a MRA altright douchebag.
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than this

Sapiens said:
This is like the third raimi Spider-Man damage control thread in two days.
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Spider-Man 2 is the most overrated superhero film, to me. I just mentioned liking some specific characterization not realizing it would be taken as a declaration of fanboy war

This thread is more about how Peter can only grow so much before inevitably regressing(mainstream comics) while at the same time being constantly revamped and watered down(tv/films) that the character and his story is steadily losing intensity
 
K

Kuroi Gogeta

Member
Elegant Weapon said:
JMS making Peter a substitute teacher was probably my favorite thing about his entire run. It's basically a perfect job for the character in so many ways




I only mentioned Raimi to say I liked his characterization of Peter as an outcast. Other than the five films before Homecoming, I expect Spider-Man to exist in a world full of other superheroes
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I'm saying though, his motivation to be spider man changes when there are literally other heroes in play. Raimi's Spider man is a hero purely out of guilt, but this version is a hero because of guilt, but he's also a hero because other heroes motivate him. Any potential bullying would roll off his back more easily because on some level he knows he's better than those who are trying to make fun of him. It changes his priorities and it changes how people view him too. In some ways he's still an outcast. Ned is his only friend, he's nervous around his crush, he's not really that cool in the conventional sense.

Is he an underdog socially? yes, but if he's spiderman he can't have a good social life. He's not Tony Stark who can be so good with his tech that he's everywhere all the time and can have a social life. Iron man is a big influence on him, someone he'd want to emulate. I suspect if there's another movie, we'll see some scenes with him trying to act as smooth as tony stark and his quips and jokes falling flat.

Is he an underdog economically? possibly not, since they don't really even devote that much time to showing the relationship between him and his primary provider Aunt May. Aunt may probably has a decent job because she is young enough to be in the work force, and there's probably money from Uncle Ben's life insurance.

The tone of the movie is one that's pretty light hearted and I think that's good for people who don't want to look at someone who is having a shitty time while they're in the theater and be reminded of how shitty their life is too. It's still a movie that is aimed at younger audiences as well. I found the amount of humor in the film to be so refreshing. You can have conflict and drama and sad moments but its good to also have some levity. Humor is a big coping mechanism for people and for spiderman even in the comics.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The OP is saying exactly what I did the day after I saw Homecoming.

BocoDragon said:
I don't think this is the "definitive version of Parker/Spidey", in that he is a variation on the original character:

The original Parker was very much an underdog. I know people are rushing to defend the new Flash as being "more 2017 because jocks don't bully kids anymore" or whatever, but there was an impact on Peter's character having a bully character like Flash literally stuffing him into lockers. Parker was a character who was not just an outcast, but literally had a miserable life at high school being persecuted for being a dork. That's why it's empowering and cathartic when he makes the transformation into Spider-Man.

Homecoming Parker is no underdog. He and Ned may sit alone in the cafeteria, but no one actually threatens them. He's a ripped super-genius who is generally well liked except by petty fellow geek Flash. He can approach girls, and his worst sin is that he's a bit goofy on the delivery. Kind of a less comedic and goofy Scott Pilgrim character.

There's also the fact that Spider-Man was originally a very self-made hero, built into one through the moral lessons of responsibility that he learns from losing Uncle Ben.

Perhaps it's a result of not seeing his origin, but Homecoming's Spider-Man transition into being a hero is seemingly guided from on high by Stark. His motivation for becoming a hero is not the moral mandate to use his powers to save others, but rather the celebrity worship of growing up in a world of the Avengers and wanting to be one of them.

Then there's the fact that Spider-Man's first real suit is actually a Stark Iron Man variation. His first acts of heroism are guided by HUD and voice assistance? I find this highly questionable to the essense of the character. Is it really the definitive version of the character, that he's talking to his suit, and unlocking hidden powers placed there by Stark? That's not a self-made underdog hero ....

I think Spider-Man is fundamentally a deeply unpopular dork who is self-made into a hero, and that's not the character in Homecoming.
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I'm glad people can have fun with Homecoming. I see that this is a new version of the character for many people, and you're happy he's in the playground of the MCU. By all estimation, the new generation will love him.

But I'm happy to see I'm not the only one honestly alienated by this version of Spiderman, jettisoning the loser -> hero arc completely. This isn't a nitpick or a zeal to tear new films down... it's an honest assessment of why this character didn't "click" with me as Spiderman at all.

I love a cool, wisecracking Spiderman. I love that cool Spiderman because I know he came from geeky, socially awkward beginnings. That's why I like the character, and it isn't in this film.
 
S

Sgt. Kabukiman

Banned
Elegant Weapon said:
this thread is more this



than this



Spider-Man 2 is the most overrated superhero film, to me. I just mentioned liking some specific characterization not realizing it would be taken as a declaration of fanboy war

This thread is more about how Peter can only grow so much before inevitably regressing(mainstream comics) while at the same time being constantly revamped and watered down(tv/films) that the character and his story is steadily losing intensity
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What are your thoughts on Miles then? I barely know anything about the character but I'm aware that most of comic-GAF doesn't seem to like him all that much. Still, if handled properly, he could become the new relatable underdog Spidey.

I don't really like that they are sharing the name though, the legacy thing just doesn't really align with how I see most Marvel characters, it makes more sense with DC. But anyway, I'm curious about the animated Miles movie, maybe it will solve this problem.
 
S

Sojgat

Member
Elegant Weapon said:
this thread is more this



than this



Spider-Man 2 is the most overrated superhero film, to me. I just mentioned liking some specific characterization not realizing it would be taken as a declaration of fanboy war

This thread is more about how Peter can only grow so much before inevitably regressing(mainstream comics) while at the same time being constantly revamped and watered down(tv/films) that the character and his story is steadily losing intensity
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This is pretty much all western superhero comics (from the big two anyway).

The sad part is Peter Parker was the character whose existence in comics most resembled a coherent life. He graduated school, got a job, got married, and kept evolving as a character. At a certain point (marriage) this slowed to a crawl, but his development had never really been reset. Until One More Day fucked all that up.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
Sgt. Kabukiman said:
What are your thoughts on Miles then? I barely know anything about the character but I'm aware that most of comic-GAF doesn't seem to like him all that much. Still, if handled properly, he could become the new relatable underdog Spidey.

I don't really like that they are sharing the name though, the legacy thing just doesn't really align with how I see most Marvel characters, it makes more sense with DC. But anyway, I'm curious about the animated Miles movie, maybe it will solve this problem.
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He's got a hell of a lot more story potential at this point than Peter. When we meet him, his dad hates people with superpowers and his uncle is bad guy who tries to use his nephew's power to do bad while Miles deals with feeling that he himself may be inherently bad. Miles story is such a great reconstruction of the Spider-Man mythos.

Too many comic events have interrupted Miles personal Spider-Man stories from being as great and character driven as Ultimate Peter's first five years or so of stories but compared to 616 Peter making deals with the devil, losing his marriage & owning his own business due to Doc Ock realizing his potential while controlling his body; Miles just sort of embodies what Spider-Man should be about, to me.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
black070 said:
Honestly have no idea what peoples problem is with the Stark/Peter relationship. It makes so much sense in the MCU and is handled really well. Spider-Man doesn't feel any less of a hero, nor does he ever get upstaged.
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I liked the idea that for years, Spider-Man was the guy who never joined a team. He and Daredevil were the two holdouts for a very long time.

This new interpretation is okay, but it changes Peter's motivation. Instead of being a hero because with great power comes great responsibility, now it seems like Peter is being a hero to be more like Tony Stark. Or so he can become a member of the Avengers.

So now Peter's got a super-suit. And it gives him advice and does detective work for him. The old Spider-Man invented tools to fight his enemies. He fought alone and struggled to get better without anyone helping or giving him wonderful technology.

I'm more comfortable with this Spider-Man than I was with Andrew Garfield, the supermodel Peter Parker/Spider-Man. But being so reliant on another hero definitely alters Spider-Man in some very real ways.
 
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