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Waypoint: I Hope ‘The Last of Us Part II’ is Super Gay (Spoilers)

K

Kenzodielocke

Banned
In the short teaser for Part II, we see a grown-up Ellie, bloodied, sitting in a bedroom, strumming a guitar and singing. There's some dialogue that suggests the story will be a revenge fantasy. Old man Joel is there.

I know what this is, on its face. But I also know what this looks like: A queer lady wearing a beaten up denim shirt, playing an acoustic guitar, an image right out of a Melissa Etheridge video from the mid 90s. C'mon, I'm not the *only one* who saw that, right?
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But, at least to someone who has watched just about every lesbian movie from the 1980s on (in a former life, I was a queer movie critic), that image evokes a specific identity. A lesbian identity—folksy, tough, working class—which is consistent with Left Behind and the person that Naughty Dog has been building since the first meeting with Ellie in the game proper.
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At least, this is my hope. We don't know much at all about the new game, just that these characters are in the teaser, looking the way they do. The choice of a men's denim workshirt could be an homage to a more general Pacific Northwest or grunge aesthetic. Ellie might be understandably more interested in living another day than consciously evoking the unapologetic butch women of her mom's generation.

But if there's any room at all for love in that universe, I sincerely hope Ellie is able to find it. In the arms of a good woman.
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https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...s-part-ii-is-super-gay?utm_source=wptwitterus

I would like Neil to tackle this topic, too.

Edit:

Twiforce said:
Man, I'm sick of straight people's discomfort with queer people being masqueraded (especially to themselves) as progressive concern. Two things I want to say about this:

1. As a gay person, I'm really annoyed by the sentiment that gay characters' sexuality should just be a "sublte" trait that "doesn't define them." My sexuality absolutely friggin defines me. I think about the fact that I'm gay literally every single day. It defines who I love, the TV shows and comics I find myself drawn to, how I relate to society, what my politics are, how I view myself- my insecurities and my pride. It defines how people treat me. And It defines the community I find myself in, who my friends are and what my dating pool is- and our communities absolutely come to define us as people.

And this idea that our sexuality shouldn't define us is also a bullshit double-standard, because straight characters are allowed to have their sexuality define them all the time and nobody complains about it. straight people in the real world too. Straight people talk about their sexuality *all the time* and yet nobody complains that they are "letting" it define them. The only reason straight people don't realize how much your sexuality defines you is because you're all surrounded by people just like you. And when I see people say that gay characters like Ellie can't be too in-your-face, that her sexuality should be "sublte" like some kind of footnote in the textbook of her life, all I see is heterosexuals being uncomfortable.


2. Gay people are a community and subculture, and we have shared practices that we use to express our identites- the way we dress for example. Yes, it's true that clothing is inherently neutral and anybody can wear what they want- but it seems that whenever gay people find a way to express themselves in a way that becomes a shared marker of queerness between us, y'all are complaining about "stereotypes." We can't let certain hairstyles, ways of dressing, etc. becomes markers of queerness, you say, lest we perpetuate stereotypes. But these "stereotypes" aren't just made up stuff, these are real queer people who are adopting styles of presentation to celebrate ourselves. I spend so much time in lesbian circles and so many girls proudly wear flannel as a way to express their sexuality, talking about how gay their fashion is. And yeah, of course plenty of queer women don't wear flannel and dress in ways you moght consider "straight." And no matter how you dress doesn't literally define your sexuality and you should dress however you like. But the fact is that for a sizable portion of the LGBT population, certain things become something we positively mark as being "gay" and for a lot of gay people that becomes a really important part of expressing themselves and loving themselves. And when we talk about these things we love that have become part of our shared gay culture, you get concerned straight people coming in warning us "But clothing and hobbies and music and hair don't have a sexuality!! Stop perpetuating stereotypes!" And you might be well-intentioned in that, but I can't help but feel this is another example of straight people being uncomfortable with us and expressing that discomfort in progressive language.
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S

sammyCYBORG

Member
I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Heinrich said:
Why does this even Matter?
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Because it's awesome to have representation.

Why wouldn't it?

LurkFish17 said:
I agree. I want good GAMEPLAY over anything else.
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Why not both? This isn't asking to sacrifice gameplay for representation.

But the way that Naughty Dog handled the gay characters in the first one tells me it'll be subtle. They didn't treat their sexual preference as a defining characteristic. They wrote it naturally, the way it should be.
 
C

Cess007

Member
sammyCYBORG said:
I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.
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I agree with this.
One of the things I loved, is that TLOU tackled the sexuality of Ellie and and Bill incredible well and but also very subtle. Their sexuality wasn't what defined them (the gay guy, the lesbian girl), but rather a part of them only. I hope they keep that approach for the sequel.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
VxEaewp.png


This Twitter Observation has me hopeful that the events of Left Behind are not just going to be relegated as backstory for Ellie, and will be a driving part of her arc going forward. I agree with the article, I want them to explore Ellie's sexuality further.

Would Ellie be the first canonically lesbian protagonist of a AAA game? I mean, aside from stuff like Bioware games where that stuff is chosen by the player.
 
HellforLeather

HellforLeather

Member
sammyCYBORG said:
I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.
Click to expand...

This.

It came up in the DLC in a fairly natural way but it was just a piece of her character and not an all encompassing identity.
 
A

Auctopus

Member
sammyCYBORG said:
I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say it would be disappointing. But the chance of now 5 years after the events of TLOU, Ellie meets another girl around her age who is also gay and also becomes a love interest is low.

Unless, of course, Neil just writes it in. I don't care either way, just hope everything feels natural like Left Behind.
 
H

Heckler456

Banned
I hope they tackle it in much the same way that they tackled Bill and Left Behind: By not shining a spotlight on it. I liked when it was just "part of the world". They made it feel as if they didn't go out of their way to make a statement with any of it, and yet, they ended up making a great statement anyway.
 
J

jschreier

Member
Heinrich said:
Why does this even Matter?
Click to expand...

‏@sapphicgeek
So, I want to tell you all what happened in the store today. It's probably the single greatest moment I have ever experienced working here.

After the usual Saturday rush, a teenage girl comes in. She looks absolutely terrified and when I greet her she jumped.

She starts going up and down the new release wall and the poor thing looks completely overwhelmed.

So, I make my way over to her and ask if I can help her find anything. She quietly admits that she was looking for Supergirl.

We're walking to the Super area when I ask if she watches the show. She smiles a bit and nods. Says Alex is her favorite.

I mention that I'm a huge #Sanvers shipper and the poor thing just breaks down in tears.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell I did to upset her. She's crying and I'm freaking out.

After a minute or so, everything clicks. I'm staring down a crying baby gay. One who was having some big issues.

I tell her that it was hard for me when I wanted to come out too. She finally stops crying and asks me if it gets easier.

We sit at the coffee bar and talked for a while. She tells me that after seeing it all over Tumblr she binged SG.

And when she got to Alex's coming out arc was when things hit her.

She tells me that she's just wanted to kill herself for so long and that she had tried but just made herself sick.

But as Alex's arc continued she said she realized that she started to see that she could be happy, that she could be loved.

She didn't want to die anymore. For the first time, she didn't want to die because she got to see Alex be amazing and be queer.

She said she came to the store hoping to find something to get her through the hiatus, so she wouldn't fall back in depression.

She had no idea gay comic characters were a thing, but wanted to try. I tell her about Batwoman, Midnighter, and Renee Montoya.
...
I ended up buying the other 3 for her and I make her promise me that in 10 years she'll help another queer kid.
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A

Apathy

Member
I really have a feeling that someone killed Ellie's partner, and in their messed up world finding someone for her was harder than it would be for a straight person.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
sammyCYBORG said:
I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.
Click to expand...

Naughty Dog was great with gay characters in The Last of Us. Bill was another great character who was gay but not overtly defined or styled in stereotypical mannerisms and such. He was just a gruff man living a hard life alone in a crazy shitty world who happened to be gay.
 
K

kadotsu

Banned
I'm thinking we'll get that. With Part 2 being a revenge plot it is almost guranteed. They'll need a love interest to create internal conflict and provide an arc for Ellie. I just hope the game won't suffer from dead lesbian syndrome.
 
foxdvd

foxdvd

Member
Has it been confirmed that she is gay? I know she shows a gay relationship in the dlc, but going on my experience with my own two daughters..

My oldest daughter had boyfriends in early school, but later girlfriends,..and now is in a full relationship with a woman as an adult.

My youngest daughter had girlfriends and flirted with girls until about the age of 15, and now she has started to like boys...

So unless the developers have stated that she is gay (which I think is difficult to do with a 14 year old)...I don't think it is as clear as people seem to think...
 
K

KorrZ

Member
sammyCYBORG said:
I found Ellie being a lesbian cool because it was subtle and not a big deal.

If it becomes a focus point of the second game it would be disappointing I think.
Click to expand...

Yes. This is also why Bill was such an incredibly well done gay character in the base game as well.
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Would be cool, but also wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't.

Honestly if they gave her a partner throughout the whole game it would probably lead to a lot of infighting and melodramatic moments that might wear the plot down.

Maybe just relegate her to a past love lost or a potential partner for the end of the game.
 
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