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Two Words
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Two Words

Judging by Fridge’s posts, I assume he is saying if a woman changes her mind but doesn’t verbalize it. He seems to be trying to create a straw man argument to distract from the real issue. Nobody would say a man deserves to go to jail because the woman changed her mind and didn’t say anything about wanting to stop but claimed rape later. But hey, it’s a lot easier to just act like that’s what people mean when they say consent can be revoked at any time if you want to be soft on rape.

Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Yeah I meant if she didn't verbalize it but was merely thinking it to herself at the time

Hah, see. Called it. He’s just making a useless straw man argument.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Reila

It is always our fault. Men are innocent until proven guilty. Fuck that.


Fucking ew.

I would say considering who's president, that the opposite ("yeah ok. Not sure I believe the girl") is more the reality of the situation.
Alavard
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Heckler456

You need to presume he's innocent to give him a chance to prove the contrary though... That's what the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing entails.

And yeah, I guess it would be possible that he'd be guilty, but exonerated. But the public shouldn't just then go on to make him out as guilty anyway. That's not how justice works. Mob justice isn't justice at all.

See, the thing is, we're not the justice system. We're free to make up our own minds based on what we know, and the facts that are presented to us. I'm able to look at the facts presented, that he was arrested, and knowing that a) arrests need some level of probable cause and that b) arrests for rapes are rare in themselves, to say that he probably committed the rape. If more facts come out later, I can re- validate my stance at that time.
Heckler456
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

Actually, innocent until proven guilty only applies in a court of law, not a video game message board.

You a fan then of the court of public opinion then?

Innocent until proven guilty should be a generally upheld standard in society. I wonder, if you were falsely accused of a crime, if you'd be so cavalier about its application.
ThisGuy
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

I'd love to see these "innocent until proven guilty/false accusations/wait for the facts" defenders do the same if Donald Trump was arrested for rape.

Are you serious with this bullshit?

People should be guilty till proven innocent? Is that what you're arguing? With the way police are in America already? You're crazy.
rjinaz
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

Man.

By those that like to generalize Gaf, Gaf both sees pedophilia everywhere and we also ignore it somehow. It's kind of amazing how that works.
Bill R Boggess
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

I'd love to see these "innocent until proven guilty/false accusations/wait for the facts" defenders do the same if Donald Trump was arrested for rape.

Well, waiting for the facts before making a decision isn't a bad thing by any stretch.

The problem is when people start assuming the woman is lying.
Alter_Fridge
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by The One and Done™

I think it's worthwhile to have a discussion about what it means when someone is raped. Not every rape is a blatant and violent as movies and television shows make it seem. Sometimes it can be much quieter and discrete. Coercion and pressure are real things that can influence these situations. The bottom line is that the person being raped does not want it to happen.

Law and Order tackle this subject quite a bit
Ozigizo
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ianpm31

Calling for somebody to be banned when I did not state anything bannable is pretty childish. I have no idea who's innocent but I can lean at what I think (with no facts). We all know women are not sex objects and rape is wrong. Stop with that nonsense guys

Posting the equivalent of "she was asking for it" is pretty disgusting. Did you not know what you posted?
Neece
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Yeah I meant if she didn't verbalize it but was merely thinking it to herself at the time

The way I understand, it would still be rape, and the guy should have checked in for continued consent or checked her body language.

Not that it would be able to be proved in court but it would still be sex she didn’t want to have.
Daffy Duck
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaislip3

Uhhh...

https://twitter.com/violanefzger/sta...77604383019008

Whoa Nelly......
ElectricBlanketFire
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThisGuy

Are you serious with this bullshit?

People should be guilty till proven innocent? Is that what you're arguing? With the way police are in America already? You're crazy.

I'm referring specifically to the posters who are already dismissing this woman's claim.
Cuburt
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by ThisGuy

Hell naw, you for real?

Not trying to make light of the situation, but maybe it is better to just avoid the joking.
cw_sasuke
If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
(10-07-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Wow... Sounds awful, hope this isn't true.

If it is I expect more women to come forward.
ThisGuy
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bill R Boggess

Well, waiting for the facts before making a decision isn't a bad thing by any stretch.

The problem is when people start assuming the woman is lying.

Right? Assuming she's lying is literally not waiting for the facts.


Originally Posted by ElectricBlanketFire

I'm referring specifically to the posters who are already dismissing this woman's claim.

No you weren't. That's why you included wait for the facts, and innocent till proven guilty crowd. But what ever. Walk it back.
sephi22
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neece

The way I understand, it would still be rape, and the guy should have checked in for continued consent or checked her body language.

How do you do that? Do you ask 'We still good?' every couple minutes? Seems like it would kill the mood. Asking for a friend.
Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(10-07-2017, 07:31 PM)
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This first page, though.
King Tubby
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:31 PM)
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Well...I hope it's not true. Eughhh

Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Any woman could pick up the phone and cry rape to the cops and the guy would get arrested 100 times out of 100

But let's just go with guilty shall we

I mean this isn't actually true at all but okay
ElectricBlanketFire
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bill R Boggess

Well, waiting for the facts before making a decision isn't a bad thing by any stretch.

The problem is when people start assuming the woman is lying.

And people in this thread said as much, hence my post.
cameron
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Not every time, I guess?
If a girl changes her mind half way through and wants to stop, you are now raping her in her mind

Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Yeah I meant if she didn't verbalize it but was merely thinking it to herself at the time

How often do you think that happens ("merely thinking it to herself") since you felt the need to bring it up?

Your other posts aren't helping, either.

Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Any woman could pick up the phone and cry rape to the cops and the guy would get arrested 100 times out of 100

But let's just go with guilty shall we

excelsiorlef
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Yeah I meant if she didn't verbalize it but was merely thinking it to herself at the time

Why are you going down this weird hypothetical route again?
faridmon
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

I hope no one in this thread is jumping to a conclusion one way or the other

Its good to want things.
Bobo Dakes
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Whoa Nelly......

...

spindashing
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaislip3

Uhhh...

https://twitter.com/violanefzger/sta...77604383019008

...yo what the fuck
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(10-07-2017, 07:33 PM)
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Holy shit, that first page. What a complete scumbag that poster is.

Disgusting.

And wow, I was not able to make it through that Twitter video. I had to close out of it.
Bronx-Man
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:34 PM)
Between this and the ScreenJunkies thread, it sure is a mystery why women are scared to come forward with their experiences of being harassed and/or raped.
diaspora
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(10-07-2017, 07:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alter_Fridge

Innocent until proven guilty surely

In a court of law. In the first place an arrest would have required probable cause.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:35 PM)

Originally Posted by ThisGuy

Are you serious with this bullshit?

People should be guilty till proven innocent?

Again, you are assuming she's not telling the truth

Which is literally you saying she's guilty of lying. Without any proof

You not comprehending this doesn't mean we should let you get away with that
Alter_Fridge
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:36 PM)
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The real criminals here are the parents taking their little children to a Nelly show.
BadAss2961
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaislip3

Uhhh...

https://twitter.com/violanefzger/sta...77604383019008

Eh... What's more likely?

A) Nelly is trying to be sweet to a young fan. 'Kissing babies' and whatnot routine for cheap points.

B) Nelly is a pedo.
Budi
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bronx-Man

Between this and the ScreenJunkies thread, it sure is a mystery why women are scared to come forward with their experiences of being harassed and/or raped.

That thread didn't have what ianpm31 was spewing here.
ThisGuy
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sweeney Tom

Again, you are assuming she's not telling the truth

Which is literally you saying she's guilty of lying. Without any proof

You not comprehending this doesn't mean we should let you get away with that

No I'm not assuming she's lying. I'm saying wait for the facts. Wait till we got the story straight before we believe either one.

Proof is necessary. Are you saying its not in the court of law? How do you think that's going to work out in society, a justice system not needing proof to convict people?

You not comprehending that is pathetic. And you ain't getting away with that dumb ass shit.
Alter_Fridge
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by BadAss2961

Eh... What's more likely?

A) Nelly is trying to be sweet to a young fan. 'Kissing babies' and whatnot routine for cheap points.

B) Nelly is a pedo.

This isn't kissing a baby, nor is Nelly a srtaight laced politician
Bill R Boggess
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(10-07-2017, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alavard

See, the thing is, we're not the justice system. We're free to make up our own minds based on what we know, and the facts that are presented to us. I'm able to look at the facts presented, that he was arrested, and knowing that a) arrests need some level of probable cause and that b) arrests for rapes are rare in themselves, to say that he probably committed the rape. If more facts come out later, I can re- validate my stance at that time.

I have no idea if he did the rape or not.

But your rationale is predicated on the erroneous and disprovable belief that police need viable evidence to make an arrest when we literally have hundreds if not thousands of cases that prove the contrary.

Police make arrests based on threadbare evidence, unreliable testimony, coerced confessions and outright manufactured lies. As a point of fact, many cops actually construct their investigations to fit their chosen narrative, rather than allow for an objective analysis.

And to be clear, I'm not asserting anything like that has happened here - Nelly may very well be guilty as hell - but your faith in the criminal justice system is misplaced.
Muffin1611
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:39 PM)

Originally Posted by Bronx-Man

Between this and the ScreenJunkies thread, it sure is a mystery why women are scared to come forward with their experiences of being harassed and/or raped.

Seriously.

The innocent until proven guilty shit is dumb. We're not in a courtroom.

Believing the girl is the right thing to do. Rape allegations are rarely fabricated. Outright supporting her is also alright.

Believing her but withholding comment on the topic until more comes out is alright too. Not my personal choice, but it's alright.
iavi
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaislip3

Uhhh...

https://twitter.com/violanefzger/sta...77604383019008

The fuck is this
Heckler456
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sweeney Tom

Again, you are assuming she's not telling the truth

Which is literally you saying she's guilty of lying. Without any proof

You not comprehending this doesn't mean we should let you get away with that

Innocent until proven guilty is not assuming she's not telling the truth, so I'm not sure where you're coming from with that. It's assuming neither, and letting the proof lead you to the correct conclusion.
Budi
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(10-07-2017, 07:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by BadAss2961

Eh... What's more likely?

A) Nelly is trying to be sweet to a young fan. 'Kissing babies' and whatnot routine for cheap points.

B) Nelly is a pedo.

Not saying he would be a pedo, but I could come up with other ways to be nice to a fan than what seems to happen in his concerts. Something that doesn't require him to be swooning the child.
Zen Aku
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:42 PM)

Originally Posted by ianpm31

Yeah ok. Not sure I believe the girl

it would have been fine if you have just said 'I'm going to wait for the facts, but I hope this isnt true."

But you had to go down the other route.
Fulminator
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(10-07-2017, 07:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by BadAss2961

Eh... What's more likely?

A) Nelly is trying to be sweet to a young fan. 'Kissing babies' and whatnot routine for cheap points.

B) Nelly is a pedo.

You can do something creepy and not be a pedo

I believe that he was probably trying to be nice, corny for the audience, but it was really cringeworthy
Sweeney Tom
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:43 PM)
Glad to see the names starting to turn grey here, at least. Nobody getting away with it. Thank you mods.
Muffin1611
Banned
(10-07-2017, 07:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Heckler456

Innocent until proven guilty is not assuming she's not telling the truth, so I'm not sure where you're coming from with that. It's assuming neither, and letting the proof lead you to the correct conclusion.

We're not in a court. Believing and encouraging the victim of a crime that is rarely reported and way more rarely made up helps to create an environment where more victims can come forward.

You don't have to outright "witch hunt" this guy, focus on the victim first. Even if it turns out false, you won't have anything to apologize for. It's not hard.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(10-07-2017, 07:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by BadAss2961

Eh... What's more likely?

That's not how it works.
Alter_Fridge
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Budi

Not saying he would be a pedo, but I could come up with other ways to be nice to a fan than what seems to happen in his concerts. Something that doesn't require him to be swooning the child.

Agreed. A guy might twirl the hair of his partner/wife, you just don't do that sort of thing to a minor. Something inside you tells you it's wrong.
NastyBook
Either. That shit that make your soul burn slow, or not.
(10-07-2017, 07:44 PM)

Originally Posted by ImTheJudgeandJury

Oh I am chilled out. I just know media love changing to narrative and you know it. He did creepy shit but that all it takes is doubt and bam the media running with it. They do it all the damn time.

No lies detected. It'll definitely catch on. You'll see a lot of us out there leading the charge on it, too.
Bill R Boggess
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(10-07-2017, 07:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Seriously.

The innocent until proven guilty shit is dumb. We're not in a courtroom.

Believing the girl is the right thing to do. Rape allegations are rarely fabricated. Outright supporting her is also alright.

Believing her but withholding comment on the topic until more comes out is alright too. Not my personal choice, but it's alright.

It’s only dumb until you’re accused of something and people grab the pitchforks and the torches and look to make your life a living hell even before you are arraigned.

I think maybe the problem is we get hung up on the word “innocent.”

Maybe the better way to phrase this would be no judgement either way until we have a serious reconciliation of all the facts.
zeioIIDX
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(10-07-2017, 07:45 PM)
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This really has nothing to do with anything but it's so strange to find out Nelly is in the headlines at the moment because late last night, his song Number One randomly popped into my head and would not leave. And I haven't listened to Nelly in fucking years.

As far as those videos of him singing to young fans on stage, eh...he might be out of touch and though he was being sweet and making some young fan's dream come true or whatever. The hair twirling is a bit much, it's not like he's some tween star in a boy band or something closer to those girls' age so it comes off as behavior I wouldn't expect from an older rapper. Think he was high when he was up on stage? (And please, don't even think I'm excusing his hair twirling antics as "Oh, he was just high so it's okay." But obviously smoking weed or whatever the case may be does impair judgement cause you to do uncharacteristic things.) Sure, everyone on Twitter thinks it is disgusting but I'm fairly certain had it been some 40 year old female singer/rapper up on stage serenading a 10 year old boy, people would just go "Aw, that's sweet!". Double standards and such. It will always look creepier when it's an older male and a younger female, pretty much no matter what and that's a shame.

Regarding the rape, not much we can say now until more is released. No one was there except whoever was on that tour bus when it took place.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by AJLma

This isn't even that bad.. rubbing the hair was weird but this is just another cornball "engage the audience" thing that nelly is known for... you guys have pedo on the brain, so it's magnified 10x for you.

Lmaoooooo 😂😂😭
Heckler456
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Muffin1611

We're not in a court. Believing and encouraging the victim of a crime that is rarely reported and way more rarely made up helps to create an environment where more victims can come forward.

You don't have to outright "witch hunt" this guy, focus on the victim first.

Agreed. We should definitely not disbelieve her, given the odds involved here.
Calion
Member
(10-07-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by ianpm31

Yeah ok. Not sure I believe the girl

https://twitter.com/xieish/status/916298916190179328

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