http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4062143704/ichilog-22
Is this an artbook? or the novel perhaps?
Is this an artbook? or the novel perhaps?
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Lost Odyssey (Xbox 360) Official Japanese Release Thread
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
That's the novel with 31 of the 34 short stories in the game compiled together.
There's something interesting I read on the Japanese LO wiki site. It seems that there's more than meets the eye to the battle system, even though it's a turn based system. While it doesn't use any ATB system, there's apparently a precise calculation for how turns go. You make all the selections for all your party members at the start of a turn, but in what order they carry out those actions depends on the action selected.
Here are some basic rules:
Defend -> Item -> Attack -> Skill/Magic -> Escape -> Row Change.
What this means is that why character that is defending, will always defend right at the start of a turn, before any attacks can be made. Next will be the characters using items. Next the regular attackers will attack in an order determined by their Agility. Skill and Magic casters will be next, but it should be noted that regular attacks against casters (which will always occur before casting) can delay or cancel such spells and skills. Next will be the escape attempt, and finally characters who which to change their row placement (front/back) will make their move.
Apparently it's also possible to change equipment while in battle, but it's no one is sure how it affects turn order at the moment.
There's something interesting I read on the Japanese LO wiki site. It seems that there's more than meets the eye to the battle system, even though it's a turn based system. While it doesn't use any ATB system, there's apparently a precise calculation for how turns go. You make all the selections for all your party members at the start of a turn, but in what order they carry out those actions depends on the action selected.
Here are some basic rules:
Defend -> Item -> Attack -> Skill/Magic -> Escape -> Row Change.
What this means is that why character that is defending, will always defend right at the start of a turn, before any attacks can be made. Next will be the characters using items. Next the regular attackers will attack in an order determined by their Agility. Skill and Magic casters will be next, but it should be noted that regular attacks against casters (which will always occur before casting) can delay or cancel such spells and skills. Next will be the escape attempt, and finally characters who which to change their row placement (front/back) will make their move.
Apparently it's also possible to change equipment while in battle, but it's no one is sure how it affects turn order at the moment.
Jinko said:
No, it applies across the board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8PAU_iBun0&feature=related
Just watch this video. In the first battle. Sakaguchi sets Kaim and Seth to use skills, and Jansen to cast a spell. As such in the first turn the 2 birds did regular attacks first, and then the player characters did their attacks. The monster casting the spell is last. In the next turn the skills were pulled off first because only the spell casting enemy is left.
charlequin
Banned
duckroll said:
Wow, that's awesome. I love persnickety timing stuff in turn-based systems. In a lot of games where you select everything upfront it feels kind of random what order things go off in -- hard to predict; if it's something you can rely on in this game, and you can make tactical use of it to prevent enemy spellcasting, use specific defensive abilities, etc. then that's really neat!
Sviatoslav
Member
Sakaguchi really seems to be able to take the traditional turn based battle system and add little touches to make it feel nice and fresh.
FateBreaker
Member
Sviatoslav said:
Glad we can recognize this, since the critics certainly won't!
But still it doesn't seem that mindblowing but more restricting. You can't spam skills to kill some shit monster that keeps popping up without taking damage. I would like it but not in that situation.Sviatoslav said:
I wish magic took a while to cast, something like in FFT so using spells would leave someone out of commission for a while (like with FF4 though ATB).
edit:I want to know why sometimes during the video during the boss mostly why characters seemed to do nothing. Stun?
Actually, that system could take a bit of getting used to, because basically you won't be able to use magic to heal before an enemy gets an attack in - healing magic will always come after. So you'll either have to use items in emergencies, or heal the turn before. Interesting...
Jonnyram said:
Exactly! More interesting, because spells always come -after- regular attacks (and probably most attack skills), this means that for your back row casters, you'll definitely want to keep your Guard Condition high. If enemies can cancel your spells with certain attacks, that would be bad. I like how the entire system seems intergrated and is making sense from a gameplay standpoint now.
Desiderus said:
Because he was cheating and wanted to die on purpose. He set Jansen's to defend for the first two turns, until the Guard Condition was significantly lowered. Then he made him cast a spell, which would result in him getting killed before he would ever cast it. :lol
Jinko said:
That's different from most every other RPG...how, exactly?
Re Magic: Or it's a good idea to protect your mages since they'll be able to do more damage with their magic attacks while your melee attack and stun/delay other people so that mages can get their attacks off.
Jinko said:
Agility/Speed determines who goes first in that case.
Jinko said:
In that it's a good idea to plan ahead...I guess you're right, it's no different. In implementation, it's quite different from the standard turn based. In that you can rely on a consistent turn order.
It's like you're trying to be dense.
Jinko said:
I don't understand what you're saying. Your claim is that this means there's no strategy in the game because strategy doesn't involve predictions or guesses, when this is absolutely wrong. There is strategy involved, and the system is actually pretty unique (I can't think of many other RPGs that have their turns play out in a rigid order like this that the player needs to master and work within). So... really, what's your point?
Another thing to note would be that with a specific turn order system like this, it makes AI routines more important and interesting. With a veteren like Katsuhisa Higuchi on board for battle programming, I can definitely see now why Sakaguchi said he made a huge difference in terms of AI planning, boss patterns and so on.
Desiderus said:
Honestly, that's a horrible idea. An actual implementation of anything close to D&D's rules in a completely turn based game would be the slowest and most boring thing ever. This is why all CRPGs that use D&D rules choose to make it pseudo-realtime so most of the turns are invisible.
It's one thing to be sitting on a table with friends rolling save throws. It's another thing sitting in front of a TV wondering when the fucking turn will ever end.
dude I am not asking for D20 dice rolls just negative effects for using skills, items, and magic.ethelred said:
How would that affect overall turn length? It would be in the description ex. "Double slash- skill double damage lowers evasion for two turns". If you know you will be alright with the loss evasion it is a no brainer.Duckroll said:
You'll finally use those stacks of potions in your inventory other then for the final boss.Jinko said:
ethelred said:
What I'm saying is that a turn based game is stratigical by nature, this system doesn't really add anything, if you know the system you still have no advantage. (as you don't know what the enemy is going to do)
Infact you have a disadvantage, in regards to healing and casting spell.
FateBreaker
Member
duckroll said:
Who is this guy and why should I like him, ducky?
Desiderus said:
The reason why it works in D&D is because the battles go on for literally dozens of turns per battle though. It's really sped up A LOT in CRPGs. If it were an actual turn-based game, a lot of the concepts wouldn't really have much effect. If you simplify them too much, then it becomes no different from what we're really looking at here for example.
Attack of Oppuntunity vs Concentration for a spell = Spells are the last thing cast in a turn, casters are vulnerable to having spells cancelled or delayed by enemy attacks.
Attack of Oppuntunity vs Non-combat movement = Escaping or row swapping is the last action, meaning all enemies can attack you before that happens.
With Warrior skills being a good representation of what I was trying to say. Berserk, Defender, Aggressor. Even Scholars and Samurai with Light and Dark arts and Hasso and Segan except for the ability to swap between them at any time. Other examples like Bard's Troubadour or a Monk's Counterstance.duckroll said:
Desiderus said:
Well I agree that Modes would make an interesting element in JRPGs, but that's not really representative of the entire D&D system at all. I think there are definitely ideas that JRPG battle systems can take from CRPG systems, not just D&D, but in the end I'm not sure if the extra complexity would benefit the games. JRPGs are in general more straightforward.
Adding complex layers on top would only really benefit the game if everything else was brought up to that level, enemies would need to be much more balanced, the game scope would have to be rich enough so the player has a reason to explore all these other class options. I mean take a look at games like Vagrant Story or even SO2 and VP/VP2. I think there are a lot borrowed gameplay ideas from CRPGs there. That's definitely a better direction imo, than taking the entire D&D system which is just too cumbersome and overcomplex for simple turn encounter based JRPGs.
duckroll said:
Hmmm... yeah. The closest thing I can think of to that is the temporary stat-down period in FFIII DS when you change jobs.
Edit: I guess the better comparison would be the Grandia series battle system, where there's a cost to the delay you incur when you try to use a powerful skill/spell -- you open yourself up to having the ability canceled and your turn lost.
Jinko said:
You really aren't paying attention to this conversation.
charlequin
Banned
Jinko said:
...
What the heck are you even talking about?
I certainly agree, the battle music definitely has an "epic" sound to it. Sakaguchi was going for epic with this game from the beginning and so far at least there it looks like he's succeeded.
I've had the US version of LO pre-ordered since the very beginning of January, so I'll definitely be getting it in February. When I first heard of the game's general story line I was immediately intrigued. If they nail the story's execution, this game will be something else and from a story perspective VERY powerful. From what I've seen, it's at the total opposite end of the spectrum from Blue Dragon..much more mature, darker storyline that is. I enjoyed Blue Dragon very much personally. Anyhow, waiting with everyone else to see exactly how this game turns out. I really wish they hadn't delayed the US version 2 additional months but can't really do anything about it except wait.
Looking forward to this game
I've had the US version of LO pre-ordered since the very beginning of January, so I'll definitely be getting it in February. When I first heard of the game's general story line I was immediately intrigued. If they nail the story's execution, this game will be something else and from a story perspective VERY powerful. From what I've seen, it's at the total opposite end of the spectrum from Blue Dragon..much more mature, darker storyline that is. I enjoyed Blue Dragon very much personally. Anyhow, waiting with everyone else to see exactly how this game turns out. I really wish they hadn't delayed the US version 2 additional months but can't really do anything about it except wait.
Looking forward to this game
NeoUltima said: