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Extreme Tech: 360 DVD, HD DVD playback still seriously flawed

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M

MikeB

Banned
According to Extreme Tech:

"Early this year I wrote about how the Xbox 360 is a flawed DVD player, complete with pictures of some of the various errors you can expect. I hoped Microsoft would fix it with each major update. So when I looked over the really long and detailed list of Dashboard updates the other day, a few things stuck out at me. One is the nebulous "Improved deinterlacer support for video playback." Could this be the DVD fix I was hoping for?

Nope. I just updated the Xbox 360 in the lab and ran it into a TV using the VGA input at 1080p. With this I used the popular HQV DVD test disc, and the Xbox 360 scored a whopping 40. That's out of 130! Rather than show you the whole scoring chart, let me break it down for you: The 360 passed the Color Bars/Vertical Detail test (nearly everything does), the Picture Detail test, and the horizontal and vertical crawls. That's it. It failed every noise reduction, film mode, jaggies, and cadence detection test there is. In nearly every case, it was a clear failure; not…even…close.

Oh, the hi-def situation isn't much better. HQV makes a hi-def test disc for HD DVD and Blu-ray players, and the 360 scores a zero (out of 100). These tests are much simpler, involving simply de-interlacing 1080i content of both regular and film mode content, and noise reduction. It's like nothing is going on there at all. "

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2228134,00.asp
 
S

Slavik81

Member
Oh, who cares? Don't they have a lot of sales on it? I'd presume those sales are because few people have bought it.

Xvid. DivX. I <3 Microsoft.
 
S

SIP YEK NOD

Banned
HD DVD playback still seriously flawed
Click to expand...

The same goes for HD DVDs—it fails miserably at the HQV tests, but those are judging noise reduction and deinterlacing. Most HD DVD movies are going to be progressive and not very noisy at all, so they look pretty darn good on the 360.
Click to expand...

how many HD-DVDs are interlaced?
 
M

MikeB

Banned
Is audio playback still a concern on the 360?

"Audio quality still seems to be a genuine concern though:

"As a music producer, the difference between good audio and bad audio can make or break my day so I tend to be very anal when comparing sources. First up was the 360 and to be honest I was a little disappointed, if not altogether surprised at the quality of the sound.

A couple of hundred quid will get you a very decent standalone CD player these days, but my beef with the 360 is that the audio sounds almost like an afterthought. That's kind of okay when you're playing games because your attention is drawn away from the 360's lack of sonic depth, but even when playing my test CD I found it a bit flat and unrewarding and the high end seemed to be out of step with the mid frequencies, giving the overall sound a synthetic, over-processed quality, a bit like a cheap MP3 player.

With the PS3 on the other hand, I have to say I was very impressed with the way it dealt with audio in general. As with the 360, when you're in mid fire fight, you don't really have time to stop and smell the roses, so I stuck in my favourite test CD (The Night Fly, by Donald Fagan, since you ask) and within a few seconds it was obvious that something very special was happening. It was like colonic irrigation for your ears - every guitar note seemed to hang in its own space, drums and percussion tell you exactly were they are in the stereo image and as for the bottom end, let's just say I don't think the people that live downstairs are going to send me a Christmas card this year!

The PS3's CD sound impressed me enough to compare it with my £500 Sony CD player that I use for work. Now this was a real revelation, because the PS3 beat it hands down in every way, eclipsing the fine detail delivered by my standalone player with a sound that seemed more natural and open overall."

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/1375/v/3/
 
K

Kabouter

Member
I never really have problems with it, but then again, I use a standard definition TV, for the audio as well (2x 8W bitches!)
 
S

See

Member
The DVD drive only makes a noise when it plays 360 games, anyone who thinks otherwise obviously haven't tried it out.
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
MikeB said:
Is audio playback still a concern on the 360?

"Audio quality still seems to be a genuine concern though:

"As a music producer, the difference between good audio and bad audio can make or break my day so I tend to be very anal when comparing sources. First up was the 360 and to be honest I was a little disappointed, if not altogether surprised at the quality of the sound.

A couple of hundred quid will get you a very decent standalone CD player these days, but my beef with the 360 is that the audio sounds almost like an afterthought. That's kind of okay when you're playing games because your attention is drawn away from the 360's lack of sonic depth, but even when playing my test CD I found it a bit flat and unrewarding and the high end seemed to be out of step with the mid frequencies, giving the overall sound a synthetic, over-processed quality, a bit like a cheap MP3 player.

With the PS3 on the other hand, I have to say I was very impressed with the way it dealt with audio in general. As with the 360, when you're in mid fire fight, you don't really have time to stop and smell the roses, so I stuck in my favourite test CD (The Night Fly, by Donald Fagan, since you ask) and within a few seconds it was obvious that something very special was happening. It was like colonic irrigation for your ears - every guitar note seemed to hang in its own space, drums and percussion tell you exactly were they are in the stereo image and as for the bottom end, let's just say I don't think the people that live downstairs are going to send me a Christmas card this year!

The PS3's CD sound impressed me enough to compare it with my £500 Sony CD player that I use for work. Now this was a real revelation, because the PS3 beat it hands down in every way, eclipsing the fine detail delivered by my standalone player with a sound that seemed more natural and open overall."

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/1375/v/3/
Click to expand...
Is the PS3 doing some type of post processing? Because XBox 360 games sound as good or better than what was coming out of my Audigy 2 sound card, so the sound chip can't be a total POS.
 
Everdred

Everdred

Member
I watched regular DVDS and HD DVDs all the time in 1080p with 5.1 sound. Everything looks and sounds fantastic to me, extreme tech can shove it.
 
M

Mash

Member
It doesn't upscale my DVD's as well as my actual DVD player but hell, my actual DVD player does not do a quarter of what my 360 does.
 
M

MikeB

Banned
Son of Godzilla said:
Isn't that because the thing has to spin at some absurd rate to read em?
Click to expand...

Yes, compared to a Blu-Ray drive it does, each disc circulation read less data. On a PC this isn't much of an issue (games installed onto the harddrive), but the 360 has to read all (no harddrive in Core version) the from disc.

The PS3 Blu-Ray reading speed for games is roughly comparable to the Xbox 360 drive, the main difference is that DVDs can be read far quicker at the outer edges of the disc than the inner layers (3.3x to 8x or 4.125 MB/s to 10.8 MB/s Dual Layer). A Blu-Ray drive offers more sustained reading speeds @ 9 MB/s.
 
M

MikeB

Banned
I read about some comparisons made between the PS3 and XBox 360 on a high-def forum:

This is what Ice Age 2 DVD looked like on the XBox 360 (scaled down image):

Xbox 360:
XBOXIA2.jpg



It should have looked more like (PS3 before scaling update): (image fixed upon request, pasted wrong image)
PS3IASD1.jpg


Looks like the XBox 360 does some weird scaling? And the colors seemed far off as compared to intended.
 
L

Linkup

Member
Slavik81 said:
Oh, who cares? Don't they have a lot of sales on it? I'd presume those sales are because few people have bought it.
Click to expand...

Lots of sales and then few people brought it? Try and make some sense here.
 
S

See

Member
Son of Godzilla said:
Isn't that because the thing has to spin at some absurd rate to read em?
Click to expand...
12x... don't know what the read speed is on original xbox games and others, also I read somewhere there is a trick to slow the speed of the drive, it has something to do with updating games... anyway I don't care, I don't even notice the sound anymore.

I though DVD playback is best through VGA, because of piracy reasons the 360, or any other DVD player for that matter, cant fully upscale through component?
The playback looks the same to me VS my DVD player running though component cables at 540p.

The 360 is the best Media player out there for me.

But... I'm not in it for the media, I'm in it for the games :)
 
S

Slavik81

Member
Linkup said:
Lots of sales and then few people brought it? Try and make some sense here.
Click to expand...
Sales as in price slashing to get rid of the excess inventory they had. Presumably, you'd end the sale when you sold off the excess stock. This would be as opposed to having sold through all that inventory in the first place and ordering more.
 
M

MikeB

Banned
Hammer24 said:
Oh, another MikeB thread.
Just check his post history.
Click to expand...

Yes I have criticized the XBox 360 for RRoD (mine died!) and overall quality and base specs.

RIP and goodbye:
2480692690095088590S200x200Q85.jpg


Always there are fanboys like you who can't stand criticism for your dear XBox 360. :lol
 
T

The Innocent X

Banned
MikeB said:
These tests are much simpler, involving simply de-interlacing 1080i content of both regular and film mode content, and noise reduction. It's like nothing is going on there at all. "
Click to expand...

It's almost like these tests are marketing bullshit made to sell testing kits.
 
1

123rl

Member
MikeB said:
I read about some comparisons made between the PS3 and XBox 360 on a high-def forum:

This is what Ice Age 2 DVD looked like on the XBox 360 (scaled down image):

Xbox 360:
http://members.shaw.ca/VTXtreme/XBOXIA2.jpg


It should have looked more like (PS3):
[img]http://members.shaw.ca/VTXtreme/PS3IABR1.jpg

Looks like the XBox 360 does some weird scaling? And the colors seemed far off as compared to intended.[/QUOTE]

Looks like the 360 image is via composite and the PS3 one is via HDMI or component.

The 360 is a crap DVD player but that picture is very misleading
Click to expand...
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
MikeB said:
Always there are fanboys like you who can't stand criticism for your dear XBox 360. :lol
Click to expand...

The difference between you and me is simple:
I am no blind fanboy like you, and I don´t resort to flat out lying like you; as a comparison of our post histories easily shows.
How much do they pay you now for raising PS3 and BR awareness? Or are you so dense to make this for free?
 
M

MikeB

Banned
123rl said:
Looks like the 360 image is via composite and the PS3 one is via HDMI or component.

The 360 is a crap DVD player but that picture is very misleading
Click to expand...

According to the guy at AVSforum:

"SD DVD output 480p (XBOX 360 component) to TV, final dispay 768p"
 
M

MikeB

Banned
Hammer24 said:
The difference between you and me is simple:
I am no blind fanboy like you, and I don´t resort to flat out lying like you; as a comparison of our post histories easily shows.
How much do they pay you now for raising PS3 and BR awareness? Or are you so dense to make this for free?
Click to expand...

Proof it, quote me or something, you little fanboy troll. :D

I'm Mike Bouma former Editor at OSNews.com and various other websites, former consultant for various bigger and smaller IT firms (Currently Physical Therapist and no connection with any IT firm). Whom am I talking to?
 
N

Norml

Member
This represents no change at all from the Xbox 360's previous performance. It's still a poor upscaling DVD player at best. In contrast, the PS3 with its latest firmware makes a really excellent upscaling player. We last tested it with the 1.8 firmware, where it scored an 88 on HQV. Most importantly, it passed several critical film mode tests.
Click to expand...


PS3 is good at dvd upscaling:D

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/autumn_2007_video_shootout/page4.asp
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
MikeB said:
Proof it, quote me or something, you little fanboy troll. :D
Click to expand...

*yawn* Everyone who checks you post history for just a couple of seconds sees how you resort to apples-oranges comparisons and technical quotes you yourself not even closely understands.
 
M

mr_bishiuk

Banned
I doubt using the VGA cable is a good way of testing the DVD on the 360, most Tv's are pretty crappy with their VGA support.


I was watching Casino Royale on DVD on my 360 the other day with a friend and he asked me if it was HD, even I had to give it a second glance it was so sharp
 
T

Thunderbear

Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
Hammer24 said:
*yawn* Everyone who checks you post history for just a couple of seconds sees how you resort to apples-oranges comparisons and technical quotes you yourself not even closely understands.
Click to expand...

Who cares what MikeB's agenda is, or if he has one, this thread is about the article and Extreme Tech and the quality of the Xbox360 DVD drive.

If you're going to contribute something to thread, in this case you should follow MikeB's example and quote sources. Attacking him in this without showing what he's done wrong makes you look bad.
 
Y

YYZ

Junior Member
sinnergy said:
I rather judge it from my own experience, and dvd's don't look that bad..
Click to expand...
I think what the pic is trying to show is that if you have, say, Ice Age 2 playing on your 360 and it looks better than the pic above, you would still notice how much better the PS3 version is. Just a guess, I haven't done the comparison myself. If Ice Age 2 looks that bad on a calibrated home theater setup, then that's pretty bad.

Tk0n said:
er, you took the blurayversion pic of the ps3 for the comparision against the dvd version pic of the 360...
Click to expand...
rofl, disregard what I said in this post then :lol
 
M

mr_bishiuk

Banned
Tk0n said:
er, you took the blurayversion pic of the ps3 for the comparision against the dvd version pic of the 360...
Click to expand...


Jesus Christ he did as well!!

Trolling of the worst kind in my book!


PS3 DVD NON BLUE RAY!
PS3IASD1.jpg
 
OverHeat

OverHeat

« generous god »
MikeB said:
Yes I have criticized the XBox 360 for RRoD (mine died!) and overall quality and base specs.

RIP and goodbye:
2480692690095088590S200x200Q85.jpg


Always there are fanboys like you who can't stand criticism for your dear XBox 360. :lol
Click to expand...

So because you had a 360 its ok to do blind criticisim?
Cool
PS3 dont have enough good game, I use it more to watch movies then play games. PSN network is a joke compare to xbox live.
71dsd4j.jpg


Wii Look like shit on my 60 inch SXRD so I had to plug it on my 32 inch CRT HDTV and not enough good game at the moment and online....dont get me started.
6uolwef.jpg


360 Game are still on DVD, you have to pay for online and build quality is crap.
73o3vdg.jpg


.....hope you get my point.
 
R

Recoil

Member
MikeB said:
Proof it
Click to expand...

"proof it"? ok. :p

how about this:

XBOXIA2.jpg


THAT DOES NOT FUCKING LOOK LIKE WHAT A DVD LOOKS LIKE ON THE 360.

As noted, it's not even in the correct aspect ratio. How the fuck is that supposed to be a reasonable comparison? Answer:
It's not.

Anyone genuinely interested in some productive, factual discourse and discussion would have gone out and found a fair test. Not... THAT.

So yeah, you're a fanboy, sorry.
 
M

MikeB

Banned
Tk0n said:
er, you took the blurayversion pic of the ps3 for the comparision against the dvd version pic of the 360...
Click to expand...

With regard to color/stretching I was talking about it doesn't matter:


DVD PS3 (before scaling update, still much better result)
PS3IASD1.jpg
 
R

Ryudo

My opinion? USED.
Tk0n said:
er, you took the blurayversion pic of the ps3 for the comparision against the dvd version pic of the 360...
Click to expand...

:lol If only a free vasectomy came with every stupid post.
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Some guy on Vgcha.rtz said:
@LordTheNightKnight: It's not worth it. MikeB will just keep talking in circles until everyone else goes to sleep. Just look at the most recent gem...
Click to expand...

Interesting

Mike Bouma huh? I expected better from a guy with your credentials.
 
M

mr_bishiuk

Banned
Recoil said:
"proof it"? ok. :p

how about this:

XBOXIA2.jpg


THAT DOES NOT FUCKING LOOK LIKE WHAT A DVD LOOKS LIKE ON THE 360.

As noted, it's not even in the correct aspect ratio. How the fuck is that supposed to be a reasonable comparison?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother with him to be honest, he's just spreading FUD
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Thunderbear said:
If you're going to contribute something to thread, in this case you should follow MikeB's example and quote sources. Attacking him in this without showing what he's done wrong makes you look bad.
Click to expand...

He compared pictures of 360 480p DVD via component to PS3 1080 BR via HDMI to make the 360 playback look bad. And thats how he always does it, just check his post history.
It has nothing to do with the article, that might be right or wrong I don´t care. But he intentionally making something look bad, thats what bothers me.
 
M

mr_bishiuk

Banned
Hammer24 said:
He compared pictures of 360 480p DVD via component to PS3 1080 BR via HDMI to make the 360 playback look bad. And thats how he always does it, just check his post history.
It has nothing to do with the article, that might be right or wrong I don´t care. But he intentionally making something look bad, thats what bothers me.
Click to expand...

He then posts a picture of His 360 about to get shipped back to prove he had one, I mean come on....
 
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