slidewinder
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No, nothing beyond his being "uncooperative."
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Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona
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Dr. Pangloss
Member
avatar299 said:
I don't think people on the left are blaming one individual's actions on the remarks of several of the rights commentators. I'm sure any reasonable person will admit that no one on the right actively called out for the murder of those that disagree with them. The problem the left has is how far the right has sunk in their political rhetoric and all the sub-context that one can take away from it. They want to make sure that those on the right are held accountable for their words and posters (Palin really deserves all that she gets). Words do matter. We quote people all the time. Go into any movie thread on gaf.
In the past two years it has become a series of brinkmanship in how far the right can go in describing what the other side is doing. I mean they started attributing both far right ideology (Nazism) and far left (Socialism) to the same party. The constant waving of the bloody shirt and claims of how un-American the other side is gets kind of old. Most of the left would like to see the right rise above and stop their temper tantrums for when things do not go their way. False equivalencies aside, do you not want the opinion leaders on your side to be more above the fray? Should you not be demanding that they provide legitimate arguments instead of stirring up fear and hatred (I know that this does happen, but there is far too much of the other type)? Those on the right must be held accountable for their words and deeds. I would expect no difference from the left (Just look at Van Jones).
Edit: Just thought of two good examples. The left want more of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRq6Y4NmB6U and less http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi3oP74kMjA#t=77s
theignoramus
Member
I'm not sure about that. I used those figures as an example because every one of them has publicly expressed outright bigotry and/or sexism. Olbermann doesnt have a reputation for disparaging immigrants, minorities, religious groups or feminists.Lost Fragment said:
the right wing figureheads I named do this and do it extensively, especially Pat Robertson and Limbaugh.
BertramCooper
Banned
The Tea Party types deserve heavy criticism because their rhetoric is classless, crass and completely inappropriate. But they should not be held in any way responsible for the attack on Giffords because it's becoming increasingly clear that they had nothing to do with it.Dr. Pangloss said:
I'm all about blaming the Tea Party when they deserve it, but holding them in any way responsible for a psychotic loner with no comprehensible political views is intellectually dishonest.
There is certainly a discussion to be had on the rhetoric of the far right, but it is unconnected to the horrific events that transpired yesterday.
BobTheFork
Member
Ans people like Obama, Hillary clinton, and even (lol) Keith Olberman are blamed just as often for thing far outside their control by wackos on the right. Point being?avatar299 said:
It's all pretty much the same
Further more, the idea of casting the 'left' as Satan because they would take advantage of this doesn't mean much after all the political advancement some politicians have gained from 911.
cartoon_soldier
Member
BobTheFork said:
Only Barack Obama is not telling people that X is a Nazi, Y is a dictator and its time for a revolution and we should reload and not retreat.
BobTheFork
Member
So? He's the president, he couldn't say that if he wanted to about a citizen. The other people are commentators. The point is that political bullshit is not limited to one political party. When BushJr was president we had commentators saying 'X is a nazi' 'X is a dictator' 'X should be killed' except back then X was the president. I'm a liberal and right now I'm fucking sick of Liberals who don't remember that we had 8 years of idoits holding 'Bush is a Nazi' signs. Now we have 'Obama is a Nazi' signs. It's all the same, people just tend to think it's always worse for them,.cartoon_soldier said:
My thoughts exactly. Nobody should point the finger at anyone just yet for this particular case. Sure what Palin did with the targets is pretty scummy, but the threats and hatred to the opposition can only lead to more incidents like this where innocents die. In an ideal world, an incident like this should teach EVERYONE to ratchet down the rhetoric that demonizes an opponent. Nobody, republican or democrat, deserves this.BobTheFork said:
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
BobTheFork said:
As I've been through this thread since yesterday. And I've been quite impressed. While some here would blame the right for this senseless act, even if Obama had pulled the trigger, there have been been others, like this gentleman, knows hypocracy when it's staring you in the face.
I understand both sides can be outrageous but there's nothing left or right about Bush Jr jumping the gun in Iraq. The U.N. Security Council had agreed to give Saddam 4 more months to get rid of his "weapons of mass destruction", Bush said fuck you to the SC and invaded. Those are facts. Obama was being called Hitler off the bat for the sake of being called Hitler (or because n-word isn't a politically correct sign these days). Had he been called out for his continued warmongering it'd be a different story.BobTheFork said:
Not really the same, not at all.BobTheFork said:
Conservatives attack Obama for things like bailing out the auto industry, raising taxes on rich people and expanding healthcare coverage. Liberals attacked Bush for invading countries on false intelligence, holding people without trial and torture.
Now I'm not saying George Bush is a Nazi, but it's not hypocritical to see that there is a wide gulf between the two situations.
Arrowgigantic
Member
You realize that was the point of the article?empty vessel said:
ElectricBlue187
Member
I'm really relieved to see the culture of hate and bigotry spread by talking heads being implicated for this in some news outlets (CNN for one) The first step is admitting you have a problem
Pristine_Condition
Member
Zabka said:
Uh, people were making the Bush=Hitler stuff well BEFORE the invasion of Iraq. Nice revisionist history there.
I mean honestly people, people keep on saying "the rhetoric" caused him to do it, when this is most likely from a very ill person. Even if this wasn't done out of idealogical reason! He felt the hate from Beck! I mean the sheriff blamed the rightwingers for it, so it must be true!
Maybe it was those darn violent video games he played when he was younger...or maybe its the scary wacky tobacky he's alleged to have smoked caused him to do it!
All of a sudden some are using this tragedy as a political move to blast those who spout stupid things.
And hey, you might have a point with Glenn Beck spouting too much stupid shit, but what does it have to do with this tragedy again? Because as far as I could tell, not much.
Maybe it was those darn violent video games he played when he was younger...or maybe its the scary wacky tobacky he's alleged to have smoked caused him to do it!
All of a sudden some are using this tragedy as a political move to blast those who spout stupid things.
And hey, you might have a point with Glenn Beck spouting too much stupid shit, but what does it have to do with this tragedy again? Because as far as I could tell, not much.
Learn2read
Member
...and now you're just pulling shit out of your ass.Pristine_Condition said:
Pristine_Condition
Member
mamacint said:
No I'm not. You are an idiot.
GhaleonQ
Member
JayDubya said:
A lot of newspapers were sane and responsible. As I understand it, this is mostly the Associated Press' fault (since televised news just cribs from newspapers, mostly). Add in the natural hyperbole present in our country's televised news, and you get what we got.
Learn2read
Member
I don't think so. Nice try.Pristine_Condition said:
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Media release of the person the police are seeking. Will not say anything regarding his possible involvement.
Before I start I want it made clear that I do believe the rhetoric from the right is more militant, in that I agree with this article, there is simply no comparison between what the right say and what the left says, the right is way over the line.CoolTrick said:
Anyways, that said, I think a lot of his points about the speech coming from the left was bunk, if you deny global warming you're not just a "conservative skeptic," they use much, much meaner language. Again, I do want to point out that calling people retarded, ignorant, or whatever a global warming denier may be called by a liberal is still not in the same ballpark as how the right will describe a liberal, I just don't appreciate creating fancy fake realities to wrap ourselves in.
And APF's post made me laugh. Obama's done much the same as Bush and theoretically should also get Hitler signs from the same group for the same stuff yet he really isn't. Not that it matters, that group did go and vote for the best they could just turned out the better choice was still shit for them, I'd offer my condolences but we all know how it is already in this country when it comes to voting, to those idealistic newly 18 year olds who thought they were changing the world I say, "welcome to adulthood in America, enjoy your stay."
Pristine_Condition
Member
mamacint said:
It's not what you THINK. It's what you know.
In Sept 2002, six months before the Iraq invasion, Herta Däubler-Gmelin, of the German justice ministry had called Bush Hitler, and the floodgates of leftists calling Bush Hitler was opened then.
Look it up.
And don't you remember this from Oct 2002, that ran in newspapers all across the country?
There's plenty more, if you are still in denial.
daoster said:
Man, those guys on the left are so civilized.
http://i.imgur.com/YUi4R.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XHIzZ.jpg
this bothers me. the dude was apparently kicked out of school and told that he couldn't return unless he had documentation from a doctor saying that he was mentally capable of returning. a month later he's allowed to buy a fucking handgun with high capacirty magazines? what the fuck is that?
If you mean before the actual day of the invasion, of course you are correct. However if you mean before the runup to the invasion, you are on more shaky ground. But also correct. People forget the protests of fringe groups like ANSWER who were making with the papier mache effigies right after the 9/11 attacks because they felt it important to defend the Taliban.Pristine_Condition said:
empty vessel
Member
Matthew Gallant said:
No, it wasn't. It was about "[t]he fact that mental illness is so often used to explain violent acts despite the evidence to the contrary." The assertion that mental illness is not often a contributing factor to crime is false. See, e.g., this paper (PDF) finding that "[a]fter controlling for demographic differences between the jail and five-city samples, the jail prevalence rates were still two to three times higher than those in the general population." (Note that this doesn't even touch less severe psychiatric disorders that nevertheless impact upon behavior nor does it account for the significant rate at which mental illness is entirely missed or ignored by the system, which would be the majority of cases.)
The author is confusing a true statement about mental illness (most people who have mental illness never commit violent crimes) with a false statement about crime (most violent crimes cannot be explained in terms of mental illness). The former is true. The latter is not.
Thing is, the ideology of the attacker matters little. What matters is that a slew of radical politicians (and let's be clear: the ones that started this crap were mostly Republican) have legitimized the idea that violence and shooting are valid political tools, and that this discourse have permeated into a part of society. It is horrible.
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