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The 'Future of Final Fantasy' will be revealed June 11

Famassu

Member
Then you call the game boring, because that is how it's played "normally". They give you a tanking role for a reason...

I mean you could raid in a mmorpg without a tank as well and then complain that you get one shotted... >_>
Uhh... no, the game gives you choices. I chose to be more effective at dealing damage/staggering/buffing & de-buffing enemies while being a bit more vulnerable instead of choosing the most safe & boring way of playing the game. That's like complaining about some hack 'n slash being boring when you go for some über-strong tank build whereas rogues & mages offer more challenge & variety.


7 had 2 1/2 super bosses + the game was actually challenging if you weren't over leveled.
It was almost impossible NOT to be overleveled in games with random battles every two seconds. It would've required more work to not be overleveled.

I remember how I needed a WEEK to beat the demonwall boss because I didn't know about the "no slot weapons are a effective" thing. Materia Keeper was a bitch as well, until I used bio+chocobo(?) by accident. I also used spells very often, and aimed for weak spots if I found them or figured it out. You also had enemies you couldn't reach with melee based characters. You also needed to tweak your setups often.
Then you sucked at the game because it really wasn't that hard. The game was still 99,999999999% Attack command whoring, even if a couple of enemies had some tactic that made them a bit easier. In FFXIII, it IS quite easy to die in a lot of normal battles if you were surprised and the enemies ganged up on one character.



While FF X had its weak points as well, I really liked the battle system to a degree. If they would have build upon that and improved that further, I think we would have a pretty decent battle system. But no, SE wanted to cash in on the MMORPG hype back than (even twice, with Single player MMORPG FF 12 and the real mmorpg FF11).
FF13 reminds me A LOT of the cinematic-action-fest-tunnles that were and are found in almost all main stream games. CoD, RE6, Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc. It feels to me that they hunt the market, instead of just making a good game which sells because it's good.
Many companies do that nowadays, in particular "leaders" back then like Capcom. Tis a shame that games have become a business ONLY and that the higher ups lack the insight to realize what makes a good game.
FFXIII is a tunnel, sure, but they started remedying that in XIII-2 already and are taking it even further in Lightning Returns. Stop acting like that's definitely the future of FF. Square Enix already got the message that FF fans don't want Unchartedified FFs but prefer exploration & freedom and they've clearly done something to it already.
 

Drek

Member
God please go back to turn based. RPGs are supposed to resolve around strategy, and not button mashing to the win.
The genre as a whole has lost sight of this though, very little strategy in most RPGs now. Turn based JRPGs have easily broken systems that make you overpowered with even a little early grinding or planning. WRPGs are falling into the level scaled and twitch based gameplay pitfalls brought to us by Oblivion/Skyrim/Betashed Fallout.

What I'd like to see is a JRPG that takes inspiration from the XCOM: Enemy Unknown turn based setup. Two moves per turn with two attacks in a single turn locked behind a skill tree, making movement a relevant part of gameplay. XCOM has plenty of cinematic attacks, which would dovetail perfectly with traditional JRPG presentation concepts (better than XCOM's meh kill scenes). Then build a skill tree around this active turn based battle system and how you gain new abilities that amplify the value of the moves.

Make every battle more challenging and larger in scope, but put it behind a user controllable random encounter rate. Want to grind? Set your party to "hunt" mode. Want to avoid encounters? Set your part to "evade" mode. You could build an entire secondary system as a precursor to encounters on this alone, with rare enemies that are basically only encounter-able during "hunt" mode that have amplified drop rates but are more challenging. It would reward players for diligence without punishing those who don't want to grind.

Turn based JRPGs could still be viable if they'd just stop trying to make every game more "cinematic" and instead focus on strategic gameplay.
 

LuuKyK

Member
For those who missed in the other thread.

j7nf1qafyPfCh.jpg
 

Negator

Member
Please be real.
Please be real.
Please be real.
Please be real.
Please be real.
Please be real.
Please be real.

Edit: Most likely fake :(

Edit2: Totally fake :(
 

LuuKyK

Member
Seems to be fake according to Kagari. lol Move on guys.

Thats a damn good fake though. Fuck whoever did this. -_-
 

jett

D-Member
If this is Versus Into XV I'm setting my graphical expectations low. An up-jumped last-gen conversion from a Japanese developer? Yeah that's going to look great.
 

Zukuu

Banned
Uhh... no, the game gives you choices. I chose to be more effective at dealing damage/staggering/buffing & de-buffing enemies while being a bit more vulnerable instead of choosing the most safe & boring way of playing the game. That's like complaining about some hack 'n slash being boring when you go for some über-strong tank build whereas rogues & mages offer more challenge & variety.


It was almost impossible NOT to be overleveled in games with random battles every two seconds. It would've required more work to not be overleveled.

Then you sucked at the game because it really wasn't that hard. The game was still 99,999999999% Attack command whoring, even if a couple of enemies had some tactic that made them a bit easier. In FFXIII, it IS quite easy to die in a lot of normal battles if you were surprised and the enemies ganged up on one character.




FFXIII is a tunnel, sure, but they started remedying that in XIII-2 already and are taking it even further in Lightning Returns. Stop acting like that's definitely the future of FF. Square Enix already got the message that FF fans don't want Unchartedified FFs but prefer exploration & freedom and they've clearly done something to it already.
Auto Attack doesn't cut it in FF 7 unless you'Re opverleved. And no, random encounters during the normal path wont make you too strong. Only grinding does.
I don'T say everything was challenging, but certain enemies and bosses certainly were.

And it's fine if you want to go with glass cannons, but again, DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT TOO MUCH DAMAGE THEN. The game was a joke with a somewhat senseful paradigma layout.
You can make any game as hard as you want if you impose self restrictions upon yourself. Play FF7 without healing then, or FF8 without Items and spells or FF13 without sentinel...
That's up to you, but don't make that the "normal difficulty".
 

Hedge

Member
Meh, this makes no sense. It has to be forged. I really don't see them announcing a KH game at E3 at all. Even before a HD collection of KH2 has been announced. I'd expect it to come in the wake of the HD release of KH2 at the earliest.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
What is this in the middle of the logo, some kind of "magnifying glass" cursor ?

232320rurn.jpg


It can be seen on both FF14 logos.
 
Meh, this makes no sense. It has to be forged. I really don't see them announcing a KH game at E3 at all. Even before a HD collection of KH2 has been announced. I'd expect it to come in the wake of the HD release of KH2 at the earliest.
Wouldn't announcing a new game be basically free marketing for a 2 HD? 3's coming out, get 2 to catch up with the story first, that sort of thing.
 

jett

D-Member
You people are so easily fooled. The size of the V is all wrong and doesn't match the typeface in FFIV or FFXIV.
 

Nerokis

Member
"Closing the ceremony itself, Hajime Tabata talked about Final Fantasy Versus XIII’s development, then said 'Tetsuya Nomura wanted to give the message that he’ll soon show the future of Final Fantasy.'"

 
So they're not showing a FF at the sony conference? Makes me scared to think it might be a mutli plat and dumbed down like XIII.
 
I don't think boring gameplay is a quality of TB systems per se.

Its more a result of not having guaranteed healing (or at least notification) before a boss when it all comes down to it. Because you don't get healed/notified you have to conserve resources on the chance one comes. That means random encounters can't require those resources, a low random encounter rate under that would mean you'd have few really long and boring attack-fests, so you have many, quickly dealt with encounters. The need to conserve resources also works against strategy in turn based systems, since the actual strategic part of the system nearly always requires resources (and this is why ARPGs seem more involved, even with no resource use you have a variety of normal or recharge based attacks).

There's been some fairly impressive turn based stuff where you're guaranteed to get all resources back after a battle, and each encounter is challenging. There's other that take a more traditional approach but the different in boss and random encounter power is reduced by increasing the latterr and reducing the former, so that resources are better used throughout but still being measured.

A strength of turn based is that you can have multiple characters who each play as important a role in combat as any other. In ARPGs AI-controlled party members are always going to be less useful. Turnbased games where you don't have party members or have party members and can't control them are generally poor in my experience, its what I disliked about Persona 3 , and FFXIII. Likewise ARPGs are well suited to single character games.

My mixed feelings more spring from largely accepting that Final Fantasy no longer has any interest in my tastes. XII demonstrated it nicely and XIII continued on further in the same direction.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Maybe, but they would have had to ditch all previous work for this to really look spectacular for a PS4 game.
Not all of it, assets are always produced at far higher quality than is used, and texture work is dependent on resolution output, so that wouldn't have taken some huge leap, it's 1080p at the very best, the density of assets would need to be radically increased, improved particle effects and lighting (we already know it changed lighting model), etc.

Two years is a long time, it could certainly be up to PS4 standards.
 

LuuKyK

Member
So they're not showing a FF at the sony conference? Makes me scared to think it might be a mutli plat and dumbed down like XIII.

Who said they arent? This thing on the 11th is just for the press, so its probably a closed theather with more explaining and gameplay and such, but nothing is stopping them from showing a trailer or teaser at the conference on the 10th.
 

jett

D-Member
Not all of it, assets are always produced at far higher quality than is used, and texture work is dependent on resolution output, so that wouldn't have taken some huge leap, it's 1080p at the very best, the density of assets would need to be radically increased, improved particle effects and lighting (we already know it changed lighting model), etc.

Two years is a long time, it could certainly be up to PS4 standards.

Well, hopefully they've started anew because aside from that church-like scenery in the gameplay trailer the game already looks dated by PS3 standards.

The funniest thing that could happen is if they just show another CGI trailer, nyahahah.
 
Who said they arent? This thing on the 11th is just for the press, so its probably a closed theather with more explaining and gameplay and such, but nothing is stopping them from showing a trailer or teaser at the conference on the 10th.

Ohhhh Then nevermind!
 

StuBurns

Banned
Well, hopefully they've started anew because aside from that church-like scenery in the gameplay trailer the game already looks dated by PS3 standards.

The funniest thing that could happen is if they just show another CGI trailer, nyahahah.
Well, it was never going to compete with the best of PS3, there were battles with around twenty enemies on screen at once, battle effects all over the place, real-time day/night shifts, and it had to maintain 30fps.
 
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