good games? that's what sold me on 360.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Polygon: MS needs to admit the XB1 Kinect is a peripheral, not a pack-in. [Opinion]
- Thread starter SwiftDeath
- Start date
good games? that's what sold me on 360.
Honey Bunny
Member
Oooo I bet EA loves that though.
Funny thing is I actually bought the system because of Kinect, because of voice integration, and because of how it's built into into the OS. Then again, I might be in the minority here.
Games like Gears let you fine tune your grenade aim. Better than flailing with your hand holding nothing, and hoping the kinect properly recognizes your power and direction.
Xbox 360 didn't have drastically inferior ports though right? I'm sure if awesome games are on Xbox One people will buy it, but will ENOUGH people buy it? Just look at the Wii U. It's not a direct comparison, but it arguably had the best exclusive lineup last year.
If they lower the price I believe they will keep kinect in the box. $399 with a kinect is a good deal IMO.
I use the kinect often though with Skype, some games, xbox fitness, and overall navigation. Don't have a problem with it at all. But do think the xbox should be lowered $100
I use the kinect often though with Skype, some games, xbox fitness, and overall navigation. Don't have a problem with it at all. But do think the xbox should be lowered $100
well, conversely, i bought a ps3 at the end of 2012 just for the games
xbone has already 'lost' this generation, but they can still make some money if they convince people it's a good second console, and they're not doing that by continually pushing kinect as a 'differentiator'. kinect was their attempt at wii-like success, which it has obviously failed at.
they need to build first party studios and start making interesting first-party content. and i don't mean an endless stream of halo, forza, fable and gears of war, which seems to be their current plan.
You make a good point about install base being important and Sony is definitely doing a great job with the PS4 so far. I read a lot of tech blogs and they always focus on the competition between the big 3 (Apple, Google, and MS) so that's probably why I mentioned them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that i think Satya spends more time worrying about Apple and Google since those are the companies who've really outdone MS in the last decade.
I think both MS and Sony are looking to expand their services to a greater range of people than the gamers who buy next-gen consoles. Apart from Nintendo, nobody really made bank off of last gen, so this gen i think both companies will focus on services like Music Unlimited, PlayStation Now and Xbox Music. Sony has "One Sony" and MS has "three screens and the cloud", and I don't think either company cares as much about selling consoles at break-even prices, as they do about expending their subscriber base across as many platforms as possible.
Sure do. There's tons of potential. The more inputs a game has the more immersive it can be. That's just obvious.
First Ben Kuchera article I've agreed with in like a year
Microsoft could have made a case it was worth packing it in, but they didn't. On the horizon we pretty much got D4 and Kinect Sports Rivals utilizing it in any central way, and a few other casual fare tripe. I'm not sure that can convince even the most casual of fence sitters, let alone those who really need a push
Microsoft could have made a case it was worth packing it in, but they didn't. On the horizon we pretty much got D4 and Kinect Sports Rivals utilizing it in any central way, and a few other casual fare tripe. I'm not sure that can convince even the most casual of fence sitters, let alone those who really need a push
I have a xbox one and I'm extremely happy with it but I do believe polygon has a point. The resolution difference is apparent. It doesn't matter to me at all but it does to a decent chunk of gamers. 349 Xbox one. They would be selling at a loss but considering the lesser hardware it could help them catch up. This is just my opinion of course. On a side note titanfall is incredible.
I rushed out and bought a Kinect for Child of Eden and loved it. None of the other Kinect games I tried really clicked for me though (Rise of Nightmares was like a bad House of the Dead if you replaced the guns with wet socks) and I tried the voice command stuff but I always felt self conscious yelling stuff at my tv and being in an apartment and playing games after work, I always felt rude yelling things after 9pm. (xbox had trouble picking me up if I spoke at a normal talking voice) I also had to keep adjusting my lights and my couch so the xbox didn't complain. None of my other consoles bossed me around so much! (not even the Nintendo ones that kept telling me to go outside)
So every time I hear that the xbox one will never ship without a Kinect because it's vital for the experience, it makes me think the experience must be one that I don't want. That said, just removing the Kinect feels like it'd leave a big gaping hole rather than fix anything. I suppose they should consolidate and focus on delivering compelling content for people who do like shouting and waving at their televisions.
So every time I hear that the xbox one will never ship without a Kinect because it's vital for the experience, it makes me think the experience must be one that I don't want. That said, just removing the Kinect feels like it'd leave a big gaping hole rather than fix anything. I suppose they should consolidate and focus on delivering compelling content for people who do like shouting and waving at their televisions.
Which takes me back to my first reply you had an issue with, where the hell are all these amazing Kinect games? There haven't been any in over 3 years of Kinect being out. There wasn't any in the Xbone launch, and there aren't any in the foreseeable future.
maverick40
Junior Member
This is very true. I am lucky to have a PS camera, it gets great use in my house.
hooijdonk17
Member
Polygon grew balls? When the fuck did that happen?
Graphics Horse
Member
You've still got the rumble triggers. And you could still have voice support via smart device, mic, or whatever they chose to support it through.
They definitely put themselves in a hard spot by including Kinect. They knew early adopters largely wouldn't be interested in Kinect games, so they decided not to make them a focus early on. They hoped to have at least one at launch with Kinect Sports, but of course this is Rare we're talking about. And, obviously, the high cost of its inclusion means they sell fewer consoles, which means developers will be even slower to integrate Kinect in their games.
Part of me thinks it'll be worth it for them in a couple years when the price is lower and they reach the greener pasture of mainstream audiences. But the other part of me thinks selling the console at $300 or $350 at launch would have been a much easier way to achieve this. If they stick with Kinect, it'll mean they're still confident that more price-conscious consumers will buy into their all-in-one vision.
Part of me thinks it'll be worth it for them in a couple years when the price is lower and they reach the greener pasture of mainstream audiences. But the other part of me thinks selling the console at $300 or $350 at launch would have been a much easier way to achieve this. If they stick with Kinect, it'll mean they're still confident that more price-conscious consumers will buy into their all-in-one vision.
I'm just imagining something like:
"Xbox: play Ar tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel"
Fattony12000
Member
"The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of, and should not be attributed to, Polygon as an organization."
hooijdonk17
Member
Oh, that answers my question above.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Remember the Surface, Windows Phone/Nokia, Windows Vista, Kin, Windows 8...
I hope Steve Ballmer's departure means Microsoft will go back to making good business decisions.
NekoFever
Member
Because that's what natural language is: being able to understand meaning without using set phrases. If you, say, asked your friend to come and see a movie, there are dozens of ways you could phrase the straightforward question, whereas Kinect currently requires you to say the equivalent of, "Friend, come to movie", which isn't natural at all.
Systems like Siri are closer but still way off. You could say to Siri...
- Do I have any appointments this afternoon?
- What am I doing after lunch?
- What meetings do I have later?
- Am I free at 3pm?
...and it knows that these are essentially asking the same thing. You don't have to say, "Siri, show today's calendar", but that would probably work too. It works much better and more naturally than Kinect and still gets jokes about how stupid and robotic it is, which should tell you something.
The Xbox, meanwhile, can turn off if you say "Xbox turn off", but not if you say "Xbox off", "Xbox shut down", "Xbox shut off", etc. Ditto the example of having to use a game's full title, which will be fun when we get the current-gen equivalent of Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie.
king picollo
Member
If developers actually programmed for it, then it might be worthwhile.
I get the distinct feeling he's saying all the because they'd rather keep to what they know, a controller than have to actually think outside the box and find out ways to use the kinect.
It is the only thing that makes the Xbox One stand out and needs to have weight put behind it as a primary form of control instead of it being thought of as an accessory.
I get the distinct feeling he's saying all the because they'd rather keep to what they know, a controller than have to actually think outside the box and find out ways to use the kinect.
It is the only thing that makes the Xbox One stand out and needs to have weight put behind it as a primary form of control instead of it being thought of as an accessory.
robertsan21
Member
Even without a Kinect, the console is still inferior to PS4. Obviously a price point at 300 USD would probably sway some people towards it...but Multiplat will never be as good as they will be on PS4 so I see no reason to get a Xboned unless its for the exclusives...which arent really any special imo.
I think early adopters are the people most willing to accept Kinect's limitations. Those of us who spend hours reading about how to get the most out of our devices, are the same people who are ok with Kinect "only" working most of the time. I think selling the Kinect to casuals is where the real battle lies, and I think it was actually a guy from Polygon who said it best when he mentioned after their 24 hour livestream that the Kinect is competing with the remote(a device that works 100% of the time) and many people won't be satisfied with the Kinect until it reaches that same degree of reliability. I think MS were hoping the Kinect would make people associate the living room with voice and gesture control in the same way the iPhone made people expect phones to have a touschscreen, but right now it's simply not good enough to become something that "casuals" will use and love. It's an interesting piece of technology, and I'm definitively interested in it, but it seems undeniable that it lacks that magic that makes Apple devices so popular with technophobes. The feeling that "it just works" isn't quite there, and without it the Kinect is just another gadget that I'll cherish but that my girlfriend will hate.
Fox Mulder
Member
I played madden on my friend's Xbox one, and all the voice command stuff just feels like something they could have done years ago with a headset.
I've loved the Xbox since the original, but this console is disappointing. I could tolerate the less horsepower, but having to buy Kinect is standing in the way of me buying one for stuff like forza right now.
I never saw anything that sold me on a Kinect the entire time it's been out. If it had real earth shaking potential, where is it?
Unknown One
Member
I can only see Xbone hanging in if it cost 300 dollars. PS3 had a hundred dollar disadvantage, yet it still sold more in Europe. Without a year headstart I don't see how Xbone could win even at 350-400 dollars.
Spottiettiedop
Member
The Kinect was the reason I bought the XB1 before the PS4. And I did so because of the non gaming functions 1st. I also figured the games will come for the Kinect in the future just like we are waiting for games now on the XB1 and PS4. But I do have Just Dance and plan on getting Kinect Sports Rivals because I do alot of friends over on weekends
I'm in the minority who like Kinect. I use Kinect Fitness a lot, and would buy a Kinect if it didn't come with the system.
But....
If they're going to force Kinect on everyone, why wasn't there great software at launch? Why no Dance Central, why no Kinect Sports Rivals? There weren't even ports of Fruit Ninja and Child of Eden.
The trojan horse is a trojan turkey if nobody buys it. All those great "all in one" business strategies are useless if your box isn't successful.
MS should certainly include Kinect in a premium SKU, but there needs to be a Core model without Kinect until MS can convince developers and gamers that Kinect is special.
Just putting it out there doesn't prove Kinect's worth. MS should be leading the way, developing compelling Kinect games. If the can't, why would anyone else want to?
Dennis Miller once said "... you can't be fat and bald in Hollywood." Well, you can't be underpowered and more expensive in gaming. MS can fix one of those things.
But....
If they're going to force Kinect on everyone, why wasn't there great software at launch? Why no Dance Central, why no Kinect Sports Rivals? There weren't even ports of Fruit Ninja and Child of Eden.
The trojan horse is a trojan turkey if nobody buys it. All those great "all in one" business strategies are useless if your box isn't successful.
MS should certainly include Kinect in a premium SKU, but there needs to be a Core model without Kinect until MS can convince developers and gamers that Kinect is special.
Just putting it out there doesn't prove Kinect's worth. MS should be leading the way, developing compelling Kinect games. If the can't, why would anyone else want to?
Dennis Miller once said "... you can't be fat and bald in Hollywood." Well, you can't be underpowered and more expensive in gaming. MS can fix one of those things.
Oh, lets have a look on Sony: they've been rated as 'Junk' and rubbish at stock exchange, they have no money, they are selling PC division and excluding TV, selling company buildings etc. pp.
And what about Nintendo: Even though they still have good cash on the banks, they're screwing up massively with Wii U and 3DS isn't as promising as they wish to be plus their foray into health business? Rly?
Why I'm writing this down? Because I'm f*cking SICK of the constanteous bash of Microsoft and the Xbox One. In fact Windows Phone and Surface are gorgeous products if you spent more than 5 minutes with the devices and their distinct features. Same counts for XOne even though I admit that it has some flaws and really bad PR (at least during last years E3), but I can't hear nor read anymore shit about resolutiongate, PR and how Microsoft is fucking up with their products because that is clearly not the case. Just look at the competitors and then you see who is really fucking up. Sony, beside PlayStation, is a ship already nearly sunken and Nintendo is driving itself into oblivion while Iwata gives a FUCK about it but instead is creating 'health business'.
Seriously guys, think about it.
backbreaker65
Banned
Like I said before, Sony "ONE" up MS, by giving devs access to voice commands via the mic. Plus the Mic is shipped with every PS4. So, the Kinect voice command advantage is nipped in the bud.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Microsoft need to prove the new Kinect's worth that's for sure and if they want to do that the cost should be on them not the consumer.
I am of the opinion that they should be given the chance to do so and the Kinect should stay bundled permanently. Give them the full generation to show it's worth, one way or the other. If they fall on their own sword then so be it but at least give it a proper chance. Only then can it's value be determined properly.
Right now it is unproven so the cost should be on Microsoft.
I am of the opinion that they should be given the chance to do so and the Kinect should stay bundled permanently. Give them the full generation to show it's worth, one way or the other. If they fall on their own sword then so be it but at least give it a proper chance. Only then can it's value be determined properly.
Right now it is unproven so the cost should be on Microsoft.
Noble Neckbeard
Banned
It's too late to remove it, just as it's too late for Nintendo to remove the tablet. That ship has sailed. The main problem they need to deal with now is the cost of the console. But how do you deal with that without removing Kinect? It's the same crappy situation.
If the main problem with those systems is price, then removing useless, unpopular peripherals from the system that only inflate the manufacture cost would be by far the easiest, simplest method of price reduction. You say "that ship has sailed" yet fail to make any argument to that point.
That's probably true. Casual users aren't going to want to memorize dozens of specific commands. MS needs to get some natural language processing on there. Luckily, they're well-poised to do this given that they bought Tellme and are putting out Cortana soon.
They just have several other things that demand their focus currently with regards to Xbox One.
highrider
Banned
You are going to take some lumps when you release an underpowered console who's cheaper competition runs games in a demonstrably superior way. The ps3 never got a pass for the last 8 years in multiplatform face offs, but now you're sick of it? You sound upset.
jabberwocker
Banned
"Polygon: MS needs to admit the XB1 Kinect is a peripheral, not a pack-in. [Opinion]"
No shit. But if they were to get rid of it they might as well take out all that passthrough crap too. Like seriously who was the one dude who was high enough up to make this happen. Half of these features (Kinect, passthrough) of the xbox are tech demos that are not properly implemented.
No shit. But if they were to get rid of it they might as well take out all that passthrough crap too. Like seriously who was the one dude who was high enough up to make this happen. Half of these features (Kinect, passthrough) of the xbox are tech demos that are not properly implemented.
They definitely need more compelling software to justify the Kinect pack in. The original Kinect had much stronger launch software: Kinect Sports, Kinectimals, Dance Central, and, even, Kinect Adventure.
I love Xbox Fitness on the One, but that's not something for my kids or parties.
I love Xbox Fitness on the One, but that's not something for my kids or parties.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Imagine if the cost the kinect 2's development was invested into beefier innards for the Xbox One.
gigantor21
Member
Pretty much.
The original Kinect came out over 3 years ago, and sold over 20 million units despite the 360 not even being built around it. Developers have had more than enough time to come up with compelling uses for it. And if a big title comes out with an amazing use for the Kinect, people would gladly go buy one separately.
But they don't have that on the Xone right now. And without it, all the Kinect bundle is doing is making their weaker system more expensive than their competition. I'm sure Sony would be more than happy to leave the current situation as it is, though, LOL.
The original Kinect came out over 3 years ago, and sold over 20 million units despite the 360 not even being built around it. Developers have had more than enough time to come up with compelling uses for it. And if a big title comes out with an amazing use for the Kinect, people would gladly go buy one separately.
But they don't have that on the Xone right now. And without it, all the Kinect bundle is doing is making their weaker system more expensive than their competition. I'm sure Sony would be more than happy to leave the current situation as it is, though, LOL.
Synth_floyd
Banned
Seriously how could they fuck up the Kinect so bad by releasing it, making everyone buy one and then NOT MAKING ANY SOFTWARE FOR IT??? Do they really have a bunch of idiots working at MS? What is the point of including it if there's nothing to do with it?