• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fighting Games Weekly | April 21-27 | Easter EG Hunting

K

kirblar

Member
gutabo said:
Seems to me like Capcom thought "let's make EX headbutt really easy to punish because we'll give Honda's EX oicho full invincibility". Then changed their minds and reverted EX oicho's full invincibility into throw invincibility only but forgot about EX headbutt.
Click to expand...
The EX Ocho was definitely a problem in the Beta - people were not happy having to fight against it.

EX headbutt was basically "we don't want you just randomly throwing it out there because you can." - they weren't related.
 
R

Ragingnight

Member
James Chen ‏@jchensor 12m
@nycfurby @artur @fubarduck Reminds me of the test Cannons did at Evo when people complained of lag on stage. They swapped to a 2nd monitor.
Click to expand...

James Chen ‏@jchensor 12m
@nycfurby @artur @fubarduck Everyone immediately said it was MUCH better than the 1st. Then Cannons revealed it was same monitor. BODIED.
Click to expand...

lololol
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Hitokage said:
It's about fucking time. For too long people have been making claims on mere feeling "man this lags take my word for it!" or broken methodology "I compared the output to a laptop LCD".

Human perception is flawed, which is why you take direct empirical measurements.
Click to expand...

Definitely. Sadly some people have ancient tv's.... when I switch from my TV to a legitimate set up, the adjustment always kills me since I feel like im too fast in the game.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
BakedYams said:
Definitely. Sadly some people have ancient tv's.... when I switch from my TV to a legitimate set up, the adjustment always kills me since I feel like im too fast in the game.
Click to expand...
Oh sure, some TVs do lag, but now you can test in a scientific way instead of falling back on myth and superstition.
 
K

Kumubou

Member
Dahbomb said:
You just tune the AI of that particular match that way.

Like for example say you want to teach throws. You basically have a tutorial where the AI like blocks 90%+ of your attacks but doesn't tech throws. You also have a description at the start of the Tutorial:

"Character X is a master of defense but because he spent most of life practicing how to block he may be weak to other forms of indirect attacks. Figure out a way to defeat him."

At this point you will soon realize that attacking isn't going to defeat him but when you do a throw it's super effective (like it does more damage than normal just for that fight). You do it a few more times and win the match.

As far as how to teach people how to use mids against someone who ducks a lot that's pretty simple... you just have an AI who ducks a lot (even if you hit him with mid attacks). And you structure it so that this fight is unlocked right after you unlock some mid hitting moves.
Click to expand...
There's a couple of issues I have with this, but they're solvable problems. One is that the challenges as presented aren't terribly interesting, but I think that's largely solvable by better presentation (until you get into more interesting challenges, anyway). The other is that I think that you would want to minimize the amount of exposition on game mechanics. It's not that players are stupid -- I think they would just rather be doing things instead of reading (or watching) them.

I'm wondering if it would work better under the structure of a single player action game. For example, you would have an enemy that has a really powerful attack that absorbs hits and breaks guard, but can be dodged and then you can easily retaliate. Or if you had an enemy that would block all of your attacks but then would have a canned response (a fast high, or they always go for a safe mid that's high damage but slow, etc.). And then as the game goes on, enemies would either have less time in their state or they would mix up between different options and you would just build from that.

One other thing -- and this is something that could be applied to fighting games now rather easily -- is to make things more obvious visually. Color code hit effects to show what you get on hit (blue = minor advantage, green = major advantage, red = guaranteed followup), have special animations for moves that are super unsafe on block or give advantage on block (like the stagger animation a lot of lows in Tekken have), super long hitstop on big counterhits (like in SFA3 or MBCC), and so on. Fighting games are generally fairly bad at communicating their state, especially if you have no prior experience with them. How can you tell how plus or minus a move is on block normally? People experienced with the genre can figure it out with some testing (buffer move tests, jump tests, etc.) but you usually can't tell by looking -- but how would someone new ever figure it out?

Hitokage said:
It's about fucking time. For too long people have been making claims on mere feeling "man this lags take my word for it!" or broken methodology "I compared the output to a laptop LCD".

Human perception is flawed, which is why you take direct empirical measurements.
Click to expand...
Man I always hated people popping off about monitors lagging, especially if the display was previously tested with something like a high-speed camera or a Leo Bodnar (the device Arturo is using) to have a damn good idea of just how much the display actually lags. I think that's one of the sneaky important things the Cannons did with Evo, with establishing a couple of monitors as known to have low and a very specific amount of lag. So now any event using one of those monitors can just tell players that it's already been tested and they can STFU.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Kumubou said:
Man I always hated people popping off about monitors lagging, especially if the display was previously tested with something like a high-speed camera or a Leo Bodnar (the device Arturo is using) to have a damn good idea of just how much the display actually lags. I think that's one of the sneaky important things the Cannons did with Evo, with establishing a couple of monitors as known to have low and a very specific amount of lag. So now any event using one of those monitors can just tell players that it's already been tested and they can STFU.
Click to expand...
Well, a high speed camera can do the job when you do 120+ fps, but it doesn't remove inherent lag from the game and system. Comparisons to other displays, especially other LCDs, introduces other unknown quantities into the measurement like lag of the comparison monitor, the circuitry used to split the signal, and the sync between them.

Bodnar's device connects directly to the monitor so it can precisely time its own output signal versus what it gets from the display. By doing it directly the test is properly controlled and not subject to nearly as many unknown factors. If you introduce intermediary wiring like a splitter, you can make direct comparisons. If it is claimed that a monitor is overheating, the system can be immediately unplugged and the monitor tested on the spot.

This also hits me a bit personally because when I was in the market for a gaming monitor a few years back, I made a decision based on the information that was available as flawed and imperfect as it was. When somebody laid down the lag card, I couldn't really say whether he was right or wrong, and that more than anything pissed me off.
 
C

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
Smug brings out the crowds, there were almost 4k viewers during his FT5 last night on PXG, dropped off a fair amount when his match was over.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
Too busy watching NBA playoffs and staring at the NFL schedule.

HEY RICE EATER WE MEET AGAIN!

Oh and I finally started Game Of Thrones. Only on Season 2.. It's good! HBO DELIVERS YET AGAIN!
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
My stream station has been shut down at a tournament before due to unfounded lag complaints. I've made sure to have proof on hand since then when possible.

Quick ? on Skullgirls: Is the 360 version's content pack up for download yet? I got prompted for the title update patch and I've downloaded the unlock keys for the 2 new characters, but I can't use the characters and I get a warning about needing the compatibility pack for online play. I already have the old compatibility pack from the first major update.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
Sixfortyfive said:
My stream station has been shut down at a tournament before due to unfounded lag complaints. I've made sure to have proof on hand since then when possible.

Quick ? on Skullgirls: Is the 360 version's content pack up for download yet? I got prompted for the title update patch and I've downloaded the unlock keys for the 2 new characters, but I can't use the characters and I get a warning about needing the compatibility pack for online play. I already have the old compatibility pack from the first major update.
Click to expand...

erase that compatibility update and download it again. The new update should be over 800mb.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GDC 2024 | Conf Schedules for Unreal & other Game Tech
2
928
CamHostage replied
Super R-Type is an amazing game.
47
2K
Knightime_X replied
Silent Hill: Ascension to Feature Season Pass, Microtransactions
News Business Cringe 2 3
126
7K
Deerock71 replied
“Do you get excited every time you see something pink?” Like a Dragon creator talks about his fight with SEGA for freedom of expression
Game Dev
3
485
Bring Back Scalebound replied
It’s been a while since I really wanted to buy a fighting game but Tekken changed it.
26
1K
Robb replied
Top Bottom