This seems no different than comparing fighting games together without comparing actual move sets of each individual character, how the timing works, etc.I was expecting only a few similarities, since Wizards of the Coast has historically been very nasty with IP protection.
The rules of Hex are literally just Magic. This is basically Chinese offbrand Magic.
- Each player starts with 7 cards (Option to mulligan) and 20 health, with the objective to get the opponents' health to 0.
- Resources are lands.
- Resource payments are mana costs.
- Threshold requirements are color requirements.
- Troops are Creatures.
- Actions are Sorceries.
- Quick Actions are Instants.
- Constants are Enchantments.
- Artifacts are... Well, Artifacts and have no threshold requirement like Artifacts have no color requirements.
- Attack is power.
- Defense is toughness.
- Combat mechanics are lifted wholesale.
- Colors are Blood (Black), Wild (Green), Diamond (White), Ruby (Red), and Sapphire (Blue).
But when you combine mechanics to form an IP, and it is nearly identical to Magic, then what?
Honest question, have you played Magic?Couple of reasons:
1. They have made cards with mechanics that are basically impossible in a non-digital game. Random effects, changing one card to another, summoning cards after destroyed, etc.
I was expecting only a few similarities, since Wizards of the Coast has historically been very nasty with IP protection.
The rules of Hex are literally just Magic. This is basically Chinese offbrand Magic.
- Each player starts with 7 cards (Option to mulligan) and 20 health, with the objective to get the opponents' health to 0.
- Resources are lands.
- Resource payments are mana costs.
- Threshold requirements are color requirements.
- Troops are Creatures.
- Actions are Sorceries.
- Quick Actions are Instants.
- Constants are Enchantments.
- Artifacts are... Well, Artifacts and have no threshold requirement like Artifacts have no color requirements.
- Attack is power.
- Defense is toughness.
- Combat mechanics are lifted wholesale.
- Colors are Blood (Black), Wild (Green), Diamond (White), Ruby (Red), and Sapphire (Blue).
So you're fine with this game being an almost direct copy of MTG?
I'm fine with "inspired" works, but I draw the line at "basically the same thing with a new coat of paint"
Honestly all that extra stuff is certainly exciting and why I'm interested in Hex, but I mean
The fundamental mechanics are really damn identical.
This seems no different than comparing fighting games together without comparing actual move sets of each individual character, how the timing works, etc.
This seems more like WotC feeling threatened more than anything -- Hex is similar, yes, but not a direct copy. It has some of the same mechanics (all named differently and some even work differently like the resource system using threshold), but it expands upon it and utilizes the digital nature a whole lot more (since Magic isn't a digital game). Also, I've heard the patents have apparently expired, too.
Those two cards are pretty damn different imo as far as card games go. Pyrite shits all over the other one. Murder is best example.
This seems no different than comparing fighting games together without comparing actual move sets of each individual character, how the timing works, etc.
Except, you know, that's exactly what it is. You need two Re-Sorry, Ruby resources to play Te'taka, Orc Gladiator. Since Rubies are basically Mountains...For one, threshold works nothing like the color requirements of Magic.
I don't disagree with this.Secondly, you can't copyright mechanics (and Hex's mechanics are named differently).
Those two cards are pretty damn different imo as far as card games go. Pyrite shits all over the other one. Murder is best example. But murder was changed a while back to where it's now different from MTG murder. 1 purple/black 3 cost, can't destroy artifact troops
No, it is a direct copy. They didn't just copy "some" of the mechanics, they copied ALL but 1 of them. The resource system (which isn't even that different, just slightly altered) and the hero ability are the only two things that separate the two games. Everything else is identical. This is such a blatant reskin I'm surpised they've lasted this long.
You might think it could work like music. You can't copyright a single note, but enough specific notes in a specific order, and you can.
Lol it's not even close to a "Chinese-level" blatant ripoff. They are trying to claim the plot is similar (it's not even close), I think they mentioned the physical size of the cards (it's a digital game), and they are also claiming that they could have reasonably expected the $2 million dollars in revenue that Crypto got in the Kickstarter.
Ironically, Magic started getting its own PvE element with the Game Day challenge decks with Theros.There are difference between the 2 games. A lot of cards in hex are only possible in this game and will never happen in a game like magic. Also hex will have the whole PVE , Dungeons, Raids ect.
Except, you know, that's exactly what it is. You need two Re-Sorry, Ruby resources to play Te'taka, Orc Gladiator. Since Rubies are basically Mountains...
Keyword mechanics are maybe the most damning thing. Again, I'm not sure if I'm on board with this lawsuit, but when you have
Flying -> Flight
Trample -> Crush
Defender -> Defensive
Lifelink -> Lifedrain
Hexproof -> Spellshield
and crucially Swift Strike -> First Strike
...yeah, the "movesets" are similar
There are literal clones of Dungeons & Dragons out there (also owned by WotC), that restate the rules in their own words, that are 100% legal. This game should be fine.
This seems no different than comparing fighting games together without comparing actual move sets of each individual character, how the timing works, etc.
Can't do this in Magic
There are plenty of things that are different in Hex compared to Magic. The base attack system and abilities are similar though.
The 'timing' (Turn structure, priority structure, combat structure, stack structure) is 100% the same.
It's so much of a clone that you could remove Champions and Threshold, and basically play with magic cards in the hex rule framework. If that's not a chinese-style copy, i don't know what's one.
Still, gameplay mechanics (As many, many WoW clones have clearly demonstrated) are not grounds for a copyright lawsuit, so this will probably get dismissed.
Actually, you can. This is funny, because it's actually a known scrapped mechanic.
I see. It's still extremely similar, but I'll give them that.You don't tap resources for mana, you just have to meet a threshold. You could play two red and one green resources, then play three one-threshold green cards in the same turn under this system, and it's noticeably easier to play multicolor decks in Hex because of this. It really is the one system that's significantly different from Magic's implementation.
Now I'm wondering which Magic mechanic you're talking about. It's not phasing. Is it Wish mechanics like Riftsweeper? It's not phasing.Actually, you can. This is funny, because it's actually a known scrapped mechanic.
Man, if folks had these kinds of arguments when games like fatal fury, mortal kombat, or killer instinct were released, what a world this would have been...
Same world would have seen no other FPS game developed by any company except Id software.
D20 systems of the world unite!
You announce phases in a video game?
Can't do this in Magic
There are plenty of things that are different in Hex compared to Magic. The base attack system and abilities are similar though.
Still, gameplay mechanics (As many, many WoW clones have clearly demonstrated) are not grounds for a copyright lawsuit, so this will probably get dismissed.
Tokens disappear after they go into a zone other than play. See Echoing Truth and co.You can easily do this within the confines of Magic (shuffling tokens into the deck). It's clunky, but possible.
You can easily do this within the confines of Magic (shuffling tokens into the deck). It's clunky, but possible.
Those two cards are pretty damn different imo as far as card games go. Pyrite shits all over the other one. Murder is best example. But murder was changed a while back to where it's now different from MTG murder. 1 purple/black 3 cost, can't destroy artifact troops
Sounds a bit familiar hmm where have i seen that
So if another CCG made a 'different' variation of a creature kill card, then WotC cant used it because....?
Again its arguing mechanics of a concept that has limited design potential.
Sounds a bit familiar hmm where have i seen that
How about...just to name some more:
(1) The all digital nature (there is no physical presence of Hex, which I think is a major defense for Crypto)
(2) The PVE system
(3) The digital card effects (of which there are many)
(4) It's trying to be an MMO (so all the other stuff that are associated typically with an MMO are realized in Hex).
Also, the PVE system, MMO nature, and the digital card effects are basically summarized into the most basic of forms. There's a lot of stuff included in those two that makes Hex distinctly different alone.
So if another CCG made a 'different' variation of a creature kill card, then WotC cant used it because....?
Again its arguing mechanics of a concept that has limited design potential.
Yeah, but the methodology existed prior to the WOTC/Wizkids transition in the palladium games among others. I didn't mean to invoke a "trademarked" phrase unintentionally.The D20 system thing is pretty different, since the term "D20" itself was a licensed trademark of WotC, while most of the rules content of D&D3 was exposed under a free (with limitations) license called OGL.
Eventually some people started making the bet that they could ignore all the proffered license terms, clone elements of D&D rules and get away with it, but nobody was really willing to try when the D20 stuff first started.
Odd choice since there was stated logic in terms of speed priority earlier in the thread. No need to double down using a physical concept like this.Hex actually duplicated almost exactly the MTGO implementation where you can set phases to pause at and otherwise it bypasses them automatically.
Numbers 1, 2, 4 aren't relevant. This lawsuit is about the game matches themselves, not the progression mechanics surrounding it. And for Number 3, individual cards aren't the point (even the examples in the lawsuit don't match up exactly); it's about the general game mechanics and rules themselves.
Its really not. There's amazing diversity in the CCG scene.
Numbers 1, 2, 4 aren't relevant. This lawsuit is about the game matches themselves, not the progression mechanics surrounding it. And for Number 3, individual cards aren't the point (even the examples in the lawsuit don't match up exactly); it's about the general game mechanics and rules themselves.
It's not about individual cards, it's the mechanics surrounding them.
These all seem like awful designs lol, especially compared to the similar stuff in Solforge.Can't do this in Magic
or this
or this
There are plenty of things that are different in Hex compared to Magic. The base attack system and abilities are similar though.
So how many ways can you design a low resource single creature kill card, without resorting to complex gimmicks for the sake of being different.
Except its not like other card games are running into the same issue. Magic did not define the one, broad, generic implementation that other card games must follow. I've played dozens of them, they have their similarities and their differences.
It's removal with Virbank Gym.Thats not single creature removal card....
Thats single creature control.