CreeperBlocks
Banned
Honestly I rather see Fatal Fury come back and not as a pachinko slot machine.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Capcom completely denies that their COO says SF5 could have pay2win mechanics
- Thread starter Nyoro SF
- Start date
- Status
Honestly I rather see Fatal Fury come back and not as a pachinko slot machine.
One frame links were always stupid, and always will be. The fact that they are practically necessary for a decent chunk of SF4's cast to be played at high levels, is absurd. There comes a point where out-playing someone else should come from simply out-playing them. And that point is well before requiring 3 successive 1 frame links in a B&B, to punish.
This isn't necessarily bad. It would depend on the implementation and ability to recognise such advantaged-by-pay users, as well as rewarding those who defeat such players suitably for being more skilled against such an opponent with a handicap level/advantage given.
While it sounds awful, I'd wait to see what they do, how they price it and if it is actually going to unevenly favour a certain player
While it sounds awful, I'd wait to see what they do, how they price it and if it is actually going to unevenly favour a certain player
A large part of the problem has to do with the inability of FGs to get good matchmaking systems due to structural issues.
Also, another thing that makes this hilarious is that higher-level players make better use of these "Pay-to-Win" subsystems. A common thing in SFxT was skilled players making use of Auto-block to create some intensely powerful option-selects and pressure (Due to the ability to walk-forward without worrying about taking stray pokes).
A new player could be beaten handily by a skilled player, even if they had the very powerful "Helper" gems, however, a skilled player with said gems only served to widen the gap.
A new player could be beaten handily by a skilled player, even if they had the very powerful "Helper" gems, however, a skilled player with said gems only served to widen the gap.
dancegrenade
Member
BlazeBreak
Member
Yeah. They're starting from scratch again and going with a Street Fighter IV/Guilty Gear Xrd style of cel-shaded 3D models. The hand-drawn sprites of XII and XIII were probably way too expensive and way, way too time-consuming to be feasible for them to get the roster anywhere near the size it should be.
Scalable and reusable art assets make me happy (They already have models available from KOFXII and XIII development). Was there an announcement for this?
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
SF4 was never accessible for newcomers though. That's just what their PR department wanted you to believe.
Oh they will. Capcpom greed knows no bounds.
WarMacheen
Member
I actually hope it does have P2W elements and then goes on to crash n' burn and ruin the brand beyond recovery, so that other developers see this bullshit and take note.
I understand why they would want to do this from a financial perspective. The challenge is to balance it properly between your hardcore and casual audience. I don't think Capcom has got the talent in place to pull it off right now.
One of the first reason why casual won't even touch multiplayer is because they feel that they aren't good enough. Pay 2 win is a waste of time and most casual wouldn't use it anyway imo. Some people buy SF just because they love the characters and the moves and play the game casually / aka between friends only. It takes time to learn a SF game, even beyond execution as you need to learn the concept of the neutral game, playing footsies, applying pressure and how to control the space.
If they want a bigger audience, focus on making an entertaining single player campaign such as what Mortal Kombat 9 or X will do. The extra fluff will help sell the game to the masses, because Mortal Kombat sure didn't sell about 4 million copies because of it's competitive aspect. Even Starcraft 2 went in this direction as the focus on the singleplayer campaign is much bigger than it was in the original. The RTS is another genre that is shrinking and Blizzard made the campaign more involving in order to sell as much copies of the game as they could since they know the competitive crowd is rather small (and they got blown up by the "esport" popularity of moba such as League of Legend and DOTA 2).
One of the first reason why casual won't even touch multiplayer is because they feel that they aren't good enough. Pay 2 win is a waste of time and most casual wouldn't use it anyway imo. Some people buy SF just because they love the characters and the moves and play the game casually / aka between friends only. It takes time to learn a SF game, even beyond execution as you need to learn the concept of the neutral game, playing footsies, applying pressure and how to control the space.
If they want a bigger audience, focus on making an entertaining single player campaign such as what Mortal Kombat 9 or X will do. The extra fluff will help sell the game to the masses, because Mortal Kombat sure didn't sell about 4 million copies because of it's competitive aspect. Even Starcraft 2 went in this direction as the focus on the singleplayer campaign is much bigger than it was in the original. The RTS is another genre that is shrinking and Blizzard made the campaign more involving in order to sell as much copies of the game as they could since they know the competitive crowd is rather small (and they got blown up by the "esport" popularity of moba such as League of Legend and DOTA 2).
SolarPowered
Member
Skullgirls was the only fighter with pure hand drawn art (aside from 3D models of stuff like Big Band's instruments and Painwheel's... wheel). KOF XII and XIII were 3D models that were then drawn over with sprites.
3D Models
Sprites
Hand Drawn
Flash
It's all kinda confusing.
Altered Juice
Member
taking advantage of beginners? pathetic.
i can imagine how online matches will end up
"lol you just got owned, scrub!"
"dude you paid for 20 layers of health..."
or
"wow dude you suck. paid for an advantage and i still whooped your ass...."
i can imagine how online matches will end up
"lol you just got owned, scrub!"
"dude you paid for 20 layers of health..."
or
"wow dude you suck. paid for an advantage and i still whooped your ass...."
Amen brother! Are you OK?
Good post incoming:
I'm also thinking of Divekick, a game with arguably the most simple controls possible in a traditional 2D fighting game. Did this game manage to entice new players to enter this genre? And if not, was this due to the heavy emphasis on fighting community in-jokes (and its quite weird character designs), or because some people just don't care about games that essentially revolve around two characters beating each other up in a small 2D or 3D playing field?
I would happily support any effort to broaden the fighting game community to include more people, if that is indeed what Capcom 's intention is, but I have no clue what would help the most in achieving this cause: simpler controls, a better single player mode (did Mortal Kombat 9 do well with - excuse me - "casuals" and manage to expand the community?), pay-to-win shenanigans, or all of the above. Perhaps we would need a full overhaul of the genre in the vein of how the first 3D fighting games like Virtua Fighter and Tekken led to a new branch on the fighting game tree.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
But gems worked so well the last time. You'd think Capcom would learn and just settle for mining people with DLC costumes.
NinjaJesus
Member
Copcam, why?
dancegrenade
Member
skatebored
Member
Oversaturation of the market is part of what brought on those dark days.
But like I said, I'm glad development is starting now, and it would seem that SF4 will still enjoy a 10 year lifespan anyway, so what's to argue about?
I can already imagine that the pay 2 win advantages would focus on removing most of the execution hurdles, but it wouldn't change anything lol. A lack of spacing, zoning, footsies and neutral game is not something that can be bypassed lol. Those are virtual and cerebral tools since it's invisible to the uninitiated eye.
It doesn't work and never will with fighting games. :^p
It doesn't work and never will with fighting games. :^p
m_shortpants
Member
Well that was my point, that the only people who are still playing are the semi hardcore and above.
UltraGunner
Banned
Prototype Viktor
Member
Is Capcom in a race to the bottom with Square and Konami ?
BronsonLee
Member
Yes, let's enlighten me on what actually led to those dark days, because I'm not aware, or anything.
What's there to argue about? You want them to simply cater to their dwindling fanbase. Ports and revisions can only work for so long, and they're past that. They need something new, not the same pattern that you want/they've followed for the past 20 years.
You brought up fucking Turbo as a game that's still being played today. It was barely being played in 05, for fuck's sake, and it's only gotten smaller and smaller.
Dark Ninja
Member
Calling it : Free to play $1 for tokens to play rank vs
It's not carebear mentality. Capcom doesn't give a shit about helping new players, if they did they'd introduce a ton of single player content that's been suggested in this thread. This is all about $ and exploiting new people for it.
The thing is the base constantly shrinks with a hardcore game over iterations. If DOTA2 kept pumping out expansions, they'd lose players gradually over time. (still make tons of money)
Capcom isn't competent enough to go the KI route, flat out.
*brofist* If I ever won the lottery and a gazillion bucks, I'd buy SNK and Lab Zero, just to make Mike Z work on that game with 14 chars (As bad as the Marvel patch fanfic was, you should see the notebook I have for Fatal Fury, and this is with a trimmed-down roster to make sure each char got treated properly)
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
What they should do is use the same engine to make two different style of games. Same characters, same assets, everything...but one with a F2P/P2W model and the other more like a traditional fighter.
It would not take much labor for them to do that, and the two can have their own communities. They should support a cross-buy or discount credit option tho, so if you buy one version you get a percentage off the purchase of the other.
Get the casuals with one version, maintain hardcore/community respect with the other one. Let them choose to cross over on their own prerogative.
It would not take much labor for them to do that, and the two can have their own communities. They should support a cross-buy or discount credit option tho, so if you buy one version you get a percentage off the purchase of the other.
Get the casuals with one version, maintain hardcore/community respect with the other one. Let them choose to cross over on their own prerogative.
Agent X
Member
I would say that SF4 was accessible, compared to most other fighting games on the market at the time. There was a lot of meat in the game if you wanted to take the time to learn all of the techniques and elevate your skills to a higher level. However, for casuals who just want to fiddle around with their friends, it's probably the closest thing to SF2 since SF2 itself.
Exactly. The game is just as playable for newbies as SF2 was, if not easier.
For SFV, there should not be a standard EX meter that fills up normally. Instead, have a $ meter that indicates your balance on your Capcom online account and each EX move costs a little bit, but you can use as many as you have funds for. You can load up funds before every match depending on how skilled your opponent is.
You 3S heads really need to look at Yatagarasu when it hits Steam. It's like 3S but with OG SNK artstyle and a smarter parry system.
Also, if SFV ends up this bad, at least USFIV will be on Steam for as long as Steam is around. Worst comes to worst, the SFIV community can always project M the game.
This doesn't really accommodate less-skilled players since more experienced players would presumably also be able to purchase buffs and could take better advantage of them. I don't think even beginners were enticed by the SFxT gem system, on the whole. Just seems like Capcom grabbing at any opportunity to nickel and dime customers.
dancegrenade
Member
Wow man. I can't thank you enough for letting us know about this game. It looks really fucking cool.
- Status