My opinion is if a game has merits beyond any pornographic stuff on the surface, then a thread should be made if people are interested in discussing said merits. If it's a straight-up porn game like Rapelay or Battle Raper or whatever, is there really much to discuss?
On the other hand, this is a tough question because people find merits beyond author intent and all that. I would say go with the consensus on certain things, but even that might be unfair to the minority.
I guess a safe bet is to allow OTs of games that have at least been rated by the ESRB. Anything beyond that should be a case by case thing.
The game has a jrpg system, the "punishment" thing is not the focus.
If the game is already rated by ESRB what was the problem?
I probably shouldn't respond, but here goes anyway.
There are certain contexts where violence is appropriate or acceptable, such as self-defence, defence of the weak and innocent or defence of your country etc. Games tend to be based around these kinds of conflicts, rather than existing for the pleasure of actually getting to murder people.
There is no context in which the molestation of children is necessary for anything. The only point to it is sexual gratification of a pedophilic urge, and basically... fuck that.
Fixed for you.Horrific, life-like violence = okay.
Sexual content of underage girls being abused. = big no-no.
A microcosm of western society as a whole.
Banning discussion that creeps people out on a personal level would lead to entire community threads to vanish. Then you have to decide who's personal tastes to shape the rules after.
Joking about murder, torture, and other things such as that being reprehensible, and that if we're going to be banning discussion of reprehensible things here, we should deal with that as well?
Not really, no.
Now that the medium has become more popular with the mainstream (arguably primarily due to games like F/SN and ML,) these sorts of games have mostly faded away as VN developers who actually want to tell a story make "clean" games while VN developers who just want to make fap material keep doing what they've always been doing.
There are also other games and stuff for people who don't want content like Criminal Girls... And the game is also going to be rated and controlled like any other game.Murders and violence are in movies, games, everything in this damn world. There's other games/movies for people that don't want this content in their product. There's ratings and stuff for this and it's controlled.
Underage semi-porn content should fucking not even be distributed, point, end of the damn line.
GOD, ARE WE REALLY ARGUING ABOUT THIS GUYS?!
The game has a jrpg system, the "punishment" thing is not the focus.
If the game is already rated by ESRB what was the problem?
I've never heard of this game before now but I agree with the others that think its weird to ban discussion of a game that so "bad" somehow it's getting an ESRB rating and being released at retail.
Ya'll are hilarious. I was not a good mod because I argued with everyone and couldn't keep my opinions to myself, and frequently derailed topics. But my actual -moderation- was fine. You guys don't know what goes on behind the scenes, I was extremely resolute in following most of the rules of moderation - cataloging bans, banning only for specific infractions of TOS, not banning people part of arguments with me unless they flung insults. I feel like I have to defend myself because you guys only see one side of the picture, and don't actually know who is handing down bans or locking threads when people get it.
I was not abusing my actual moderation powers until I edited my post. My problem as a mod came from my big mouth. It's hilarious that you even think I'm the poster child for this - we had a mod who literally let her boyfriend secretly use and ban people from the account, ban anyone in discussions about feminism. I'm not even the fourth most abusive mod we've ever had.
Were you around during Amir0x's reign of terror? The decisions of a single mod are not always best for the forum.
DAMNBut that means 70% of Vita game discussion would be gone.
Ya'll are hilarious. I was not a good mod because I argued with everyone and couldn't keep my opinions to myself, and frequently derailed topics. But my actual -moderation- was fine. You guys don't know what goes on behind the scenes, I was extremely resolute in following most of the rules of moderation - cataloging bans, banning only for specific infractions of TOS, not banning people part of arguments with me unless they flung insults. I feel like I have to defend myself because you guys only see one side of the picture, and don't actually know who is handing down bans or locking threads when people get it.
I was not abusing my actual moderation powers until I edited my post. My problem as a mod came from my big mouth. It's hilarious that you even think I'm the poster child for this - we had a mod who literally let her boyfriend secretly use and ban people from the account, ban anyone in discussions about feminism. I'm not even the fourth most abusive mod we've ever had.
Murders and violence are in movies, games, everything in this damn world.
There's other games/movies for people that don't want this content in their product. There's ratings and stuff for this and it's controlled.
That's not abusing my power as a mod though; debating as a mod is allowed, so is arguing. It's just it derailed threads and I would KEEP replying over and over again, and sometimes I'd get so stubborn and say things so crassly that people would start to get offended. I wasn't "abusing" my moderation, I just wasn't a good fit for being a mod because I am way too opinionated and stubborn. But my 'decisions' as a mod were not actually breaking any rules, until the editing fiasco (which I totally deserved to be demodded for; and I deserved to have left moderation earlier because I had discussed my opinionated attitude with Evilore like 30x and should have realized I couldn't keep it contained). I followed the TOS for bans pretty explicitly. There were a few exceptions, every mod occasionally bans someone where other mods say 'well maybe we should be a bit more lenient here or there', but my problem was different.
That you feared me is something I can take responsibility for, but I did not ban people for getting into debates for me. On one or two occasions I would even message other mods to watch the discussions in case someone needed a ban because I didn't want to judge a ban in a conversation I was apart of.
Good to hear from the source. I hope you didn't take my post from earlier personally because it was just based on things I heard, as I said, I wasn't there during these times.
You're a nice guy, as far as I know, so far.
It's really my hang-up to fear authority in some way, but that doesn't change the tone of those threads.
That's not abusing my power as a mod though; debating as a mod is allowed, so is arguing. It's just it derailed threads and I would KEEP replying over and over again, and sometimes I'd get so stubborn and say things so crassly that people would start to get offended. I wasn't "abusing" my moderation, I just wasn't a good fit for being a mod because I am way too opinionated and stubborn. But my 'decisions' as a mod were not actually breaking any rules, until the editing fiasco (which I totally deserved to be demodded for; and I deserved to have left moderation earlier because I had discussed my opinionated attitude with Evilore like 30x and should have realized I couldn't keep it contained). I followed the TOS for bans pretty explicitly. There were a few exceptions, every mod occasionally bans someone where other mods say 'well maybe we should be a bit more lenient here or there', but my problem was different.
That you feared me is something I can take responsibility for, but I did not ban people for getting into debates for me. On one or two occasions I would even message other mods to watch the discussions in case someone needed a ban because I didn't want to judge a ban in a conversation I was apart of.
Well that's obviously alright, then.what if they're actually 1000 year old demons
How is anyone supposed to know what is or isn't allowed if decisions are made in an opaque manner seemingly based on personal distaste alone rather than clearly listed rules?
I'm just trying to come up with something that would be "a" system that would have set, pre-determined rules to fall back on in the inevitable cries of censorship in any thread that ever gets locked ever. It certainly wouldn't even have to be absolute--Other things could be case-by-case or discussion-by-discussion.Well, sure, if GAF were an entity for people to discuss any video game as deemed acceptable by the ESRB. But it's a private forum and an anything-goes mentality will eventually meet things that reflect poorly on it by virtue of that discussion.
Criminal Girls just happens to be that thing.
And thus it is settled; case-by-case, rights reserved by mods, contact a mod if concerned about the content of something, etc? So the norm.Listen - if you want to have a chit chat about your game where visibly underage kids are sexually "punished" in various ways, that fine. But it won't be here.
Murders and violence are in movies, games, everything in this damn world. There's other games/movies for people that don't want this content in their product. There's ratings and stuff for this and it's controlled.
Underage semi-porn content should fucking not even be distributed, point, end of the damn line.
GOD, ARE WE REALLY ARGUING ABOUT THIS GUYS?!
Sure, this is definitely true.
But, there are many games which do not fit into those categories, which do feature murder, torture, etc. "for the pleasure of it," and yet discussion of them is allowed here.
A lot of the most popular and best-selling ones, like GTA, aren't though. Those games are about glorifying the criminal lifestyle for the most part.
Horrific, life-like violence = okay.
Sexual content = big no-no.
A microcosm of western society as a whole.
It's essentialy a porn game and these are the characters:
I mean, c'mon.
Well that's obviously alright, then.
Listen - if you want to have a chit chat about your game where visibly underage kids are sexually "punished" in various ways, that fine. But it won't be here.
If that bugs you, so be it. If you want to argue that "if 'X' isn't allowed, what about 'Y'?" Go ahead.
I don't care. This isn't the place for you.
This needs to be quoted 100×This is a private forum. There is no expectation of free speech.
Mods are Human too, If you have the opportunity to make a judgment on something without being tied to all the responsibilities of standing by that judgment, wouldn't you?Why would a mod want to stay anonymous for closing thread sometimes and not others?
Just because I post that doesn't mean I assume that's what you're saying. The thread's about discussion of games and subjects being banned, right?So strange how you got any of that out of my post.
But molesting children is only a subgame.
I know that feel, bro. It's so easy to get aggressive or defensive on the internets.It's cool. I admit I am just a little frustrated as being painted as public enemy ex-mod number one... we've had some pretty abusive mods in the past
Oh yeah, I don't want to take it away from you. I was NOT a good fit for mod. I was a bad mod, because a mod has to be able to curate discussions and lead people to good places. Stumpokapow is a great mod; Opiate is a great mod. Me, I wanted to jump into every battle and argue with every person, and my newfound status as a mod just gave me even more attention for my opinions, and since I love sharing my opinions... it was a bad fit. I should have been more self-aware about it earlier and removed myself from being a mod years before I ever edited that damned post. My pride sometimes gets the best of me
That's not abusing my power as a mod though; debating as a mod is allowed, so is arguing. It's just it derailed threads and I would KEEP replying over and over again, and sometimes I'd get so stubborn and say things so crassly that people would start to get offended. I wasn't "abusing" my moderation, I just wasn't a good fit for being a mod because I am way too opinionated and stubborn. But my 'decisions' as a mod were not actually breaking any rules, until the editing fiasco (which I totally deserved to be demodded for; and I deserved to have left moderation earlier because I had discussed my opinionated attitude with Evilore like 30x and should have realized I couldn't keep it contained). I followed the TOS for bans pretty explicitly. There were a few exceptions, every mod occasionally bans someone where other mods say 'well maybe we should be a bit more lenient here or there', but my problem was different.
That you feared me is something I can take responsibility for, but I did not ban people for getting into debates for me. On one or two occasions I would even message other mods to watch the discussions in case someone needed a ban because I didn't want to judge a ban in a conversation I was apart of.
There are also other games and stuff for people who don't want content like Criminal Girls... And the game is also going to be rated and controlled like any other game.
I don't understand your argument.
And that makes it alright?
And the same is true for sexual content in games.
I'm just trying to come up with something that would be "a" system that would have set, pre-determined rules to fall back on in the inevitable cries of censorship in any thread that ever gets locked ever. It certainly wouldn't even have to be absolute--Other things could be case-by-case or discussion-by-discussion.
Generally speaking I'd say moderate the posters, not the threads. From how I've understood it the #1 rule here is "don't be a dick". That can be enforced regardless of the topic of discussion. If people want to troll or harass people about controversial subjects they do so at their own risk.
The worst result here will be if/when (well, it sorta has already) things turn to "violence = cool, sex = evil". Following an ESRB/whatever okay-for-retail standard would set the initial tone.
Do you know how ESRB ratings are handed out? They're not exactly thorough.
I haven't been here for as long as some of you guys have, but I'm concerned with the idea of not discussing some video games here just because someone doesn't approve of them. I'm not okay with some sort of "morality measuring stick" that dictates where this line in the sand is, and if discussion about these kind of games is to take place, I'm not okay with implied or outright accusations of pedophilia for people who might enjoy their content.
The last two threads were a mess.
Well that's obviously alright, then.
Listen - if you want to have a chit chat about your game where visibly underage kids are sexually "punished" in various ways, that fine. But it won't be here.
If that bugs you, so be it. If you want to argue that "if 'X' isn't allowed, what about 'Y'?" Go ahead.
I don't care. This isn't the place for you.
A good example given to me by a friend about the grayness of the discussion of this topic. Considering this is about drawings of supposedly underage characters.
Let's say I draw a stick figure with no features, with a speech bubble declaring that the character is underage and naked. Then start adding detail. At what point is the image unacceptable?
b) Evilore's house, his rules. If he's okay with the killin' and nots wit the kiddie touchin', then I'm going to respect that whether I agree on the first or second points or any at all.
But molesting children is only a subgame.
Seriously get the fuck out of here with this shit, are you fucking kidding me? Are you kidding me?
Well that's obviously alright, then.
Listen - if you want to have a chit chat about your game where visibly underage kids are sexually "punished" in various ways, that fine. But it won't be here.
If that bugs you, so be it. If you want to argue that "if 'X' isn't allowed, what about 'Y'?" Go ahead.
I don't care. This isn't the place for you.
Mods are Human too, If you have the opportunity to make a judgment on something without being tied to all the responsibilities of standing by that judgment, wouldn't you?
Even a game about criminals has context. Who they are, why they're doing what they do, it never boils down to killing for pleasure. I've played GTA. The game does have context, even if as a player you can bend the system to just run over innocents all day if you want.
Are the girls really underage though? Like how old are they?
Errr, ok....ok.
I'll try to stay polite, but guys:
There's sexual content, ok.
There's sexual content involving FUCKING UNDERAGE GIRLS.
I mean, am I crazy to think that this conversation, the one we're having right now, is fucking wrong?!?! I know there's other games like that, too. My argument holds, there's no place for that freaking deviant stuff nowhere.