• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

French politician: Assassin's Creed: Unity 'makes travesty of the French Revolution'

What I learned about french revolution came from the movie Danton with Gérard Depardieu. I must also say that I already forgot 90% of it, though.

I remember the bread line, but that wasn't in the movie I think.
 

koutoru

Member
I didn't know people were looking toward Assassins Creed for historical accuracy.

Well, If that's the case, I guess US politicians should get upset over AC 3.
 
So he's saying that it wasn't barbaric for masses of people to storm into people's houses, decapitate them, and parade their heads around on pikes?

It doesn't 100% conform to their version of events.

I don't really see any specifics sighted. Just tone.

And if Ubisoft DID tilt the story to their liking, then likely the OTHER side would be bitching and moaning.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Not sure what you mean. That's exactly as I remember it.

...did you just accidentally out yourself as an immortal?

EDIT: slight tangent... Totally bought this for my friend on his birthday afew years ago.

marie_antoinette_action_figure.jpg
 

Logash

Member
Is there a single thing this game isn't a monumental failure on?

Actually, everything this guy said is false. Besides the Robespierre thing, the game didn't potray anyone really bad. In fact, if you play the game you would find out that
the Templars orchestrated the entire thing.
I mean even if you didn't beat the game it's a pretty obvious way to go and wasn't really anything special in what I think was one of the most lackluster stories in any AC game. Game was more about Arno and the red head than it was about templars, assassins, or the French Revolution.
 

danm999

Member
I didn't know people were looking toward Assassins Creed for historical accuracy.

Well, If that's the case, I guess US politicians should get upset over AC 3.

Politicians gonna politic.

I doubt this person has much context for AC as a series beyond its name.
 
Robespierre was really the first "strongman" leftist who killed man for the "ends justify the means" line. Robespierre killed and tortured more people than Castro, Pinochet, and Montt combined. He also turned France into a totalitarian nation as anybody who was suspected of against the revolution was sent to prison or worse. I have no doubt that if the revolution happened one hundred and fifty years later he would raked in some serious kill counts.
 

JC Lately

Member
What the fuck am I reading?

Some video game doesn't get a historical period right? Well no shit. None of them do. Unless its an educational game. And we all know those don't count.
 

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
So for those that have played the game and are versed in the French Revolution, do any of those complaints hold merit in that you could see how some could come to that conclusion?

My recollection of history class and the French Revolution has unfortunately faded and now it's at a point where I only recall superficial specific points such as the Clergy, Monarchy, the storming of the Bastille, and the Guillotine.
 

Doukou

Member
Actually, everything this guy said is false. Besides the Robespierre thing, the game didn't potray anyone really bad. In fact, if you play the game you would find out that
the Templars orchestrated the entire thing.
I mean even if you didn't beat the game it's a pretty obvious way to go and wasn't really anything special in what I think was one of the most lackluster stories in any AC game. Game was more about Arno and the red head than it was about templars, assassins, or the French Revolution.

Carrying the torch of politicians not actually knowing any of the contents they criticize in games.
 
So for those that have played the game and are versed in the French Revolution, do any of those complaints hold merit in that you could see how some could come to that conclusion?

My recollection of history class and the French Revolution has unfortunately faded and now it's at a point where I only recall superficial specific points such as the Clergy, Monarchy, the storming of the Bastille, and the Guillotine.

I'm a few hours into the game and thus far it has barely discussed anything to do with the revolution. I've met like one revolutionary figure and you see people in the streets shouting something about the revolution occasionally.

Edit:

Wait actually, you were freed from the Bastille at the start of the game. During the storming naturally. The fact that it was an empty shell housing barely any prisoners was more or less accurate.
 

Vire

Member
So for those that have played the game and are versed in the French Revolution, do any of those complaints hold merit in that you could see how some could come to that conclusion?

My recollection of history class and the French Revolution has unfortunately faded and now it's at a point where I only recall superficial specific points such as the Clergy, Monarchy, the storming of the Bastille, and the Guillotine.

The game has little if anything to do with the revolution actually. It's barely touched upon and the setting is used more as a backdrop than anything.

I love how he has a problem with any historical inaccuracies when this is the same series that allows you to jump from thirty story buildings into a pile of hay and come out unscathed, go into time warp anomalies that transport you in time to a different era, make George Washington into a tyrannical king, and has every french citizen speak in a British accent.

Like seriously? What?..
 

Cartman86

Banned
Haven't played the game so I don't know the specifics of this title, but Ubisoft (and many others) want to have their cake and eat it too. They use historical accuracy as a marketing and talking point when it suits them and then hide behind artistic license when criticized. Good artists would pick a side. Artistic truth or literal truth? Ubisoft as a whole isn't concerned with art or truth either way. They create products and are concerned with making money. Film studios do it too.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Guy should just be glad he didn't have to sit through the butchering of American history that was Assassin's Creed 3. I mean damn.

=(

I loved what they did with it, considering it is, after all, Assassin's Creed.
Edit:

Wait actually, you were freed from the Bastille at the start of the game. During the storming naturally. The fact that it was an empty shell housing barely any prisoners was more or less accurate.

Haha, yes, perfectly put.
 
Shit is barely about the revolution. And Robespierre was a bad guy, regardless of intentions. Guy just wants to be in the news.
 

Amir0x

Banned
=(

I loved what they did with it, considering it is, after all, Assassin's Creed.

Seriously there was like no part of American history they didn't butcher

bout the only thing that was accurate was the stuff they copypasted from real historical texts like the Benjamin Franklin "why older women are better than younger women" thing :p
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Seriously there was like no part of American history they didn't butcher

bout the only thing that was accurate was the stuff they copypasted from real historical texts like the Benjamin Franklin "why older women are better than younger women" thing :p
I freaked out when I saw that in-game as I was playing. So good, Ubi. So good... Yay for history.
 

kyser73

Member
Knowing who Mélenchon is its no surprise he's saying this.

He's an actual left-wing French socialist (instead of saying 'I'm a socialist' and living in a chateau and also saying things like 'L'Eta c'est moi', raping chamber maids or running the IMF) and I can see that he would take deep offence at any positive portrayal of Antoinette (I don't think there's a suitable equal in US history yet) and a simplistic characterisation of Robespierre as simply a bad guy, rather than someone driven to horrendous deeds by the a situation greater than he was, and who had limited historical examples upon which to draw to resolve the situation he found himself in.

While his actions are inexcusable, they were by no means unique in previous interregnums or radically huge power shifts, nor were his justifications any different from those who went before him.

I would also imagine that Mélenchon doesn't really hold too much truck with the kind of post-modernism that gives rise to the alt-history storytelling of the Creed series - from what I've read of him he's pretty old school in his thinking and his radicalism (he's a very trad French lefty - hates the US, hates neo-liberal capitalism, thinks the rich should be taxed until they shit blood etc.
 
Robespierre was really the first "strongman" leftist who killed man for the "ends justify the means" line. Robespierre killed and tortured more people than Castro, Pinochet, and Montt combined. He also turned France into a totalitarian nation as anybody who was suspected of against the revolution was sent to prison or worse. I have no doubt that if the revolution happened one hundred and fifty years later he would raked in some serious kill counts.

Think cromwell would of gave him a run for his money.

Irony is, if there ever was an assassins creed set during the english civil war, I doubt many in the uk would be interested.
 

kyser73

Member
Think cromwell would of gave him a run for his money.

Irony is, if there ever was an assassins creed set during the english civil war, I doubt many in the uk would be interested.

Left and right are terms that only really have meaning from the French Revolution onwards.

Cromwell was a Republican protestant who sold out and turned on his supporters who had previously espoused many ideas of communal living - the various Barkers, Diggers, Levellers (yes, them) and the whole gallimaufry of hard-line protestant & Calvinist groups in England at the time, in favour of installing the landowners who had provided the money to support the NMA.
 

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
I'm a few hours into the game and thus far it has barely discussed anything to do with the revolution. I've met like one revolutionary figure and you see people in the streets shouting something about the revolution occasionally.

Edit:

Wait actually, you were freed from the Bastille at the start of the game. During the storming naturally. The fact that it was an empty shell housing barely any prisoners was more or less accurate.

The game has little if anything to do with the revolution actually. It's barely touched upon and the setting is used more as a backdrop than anything.

Thank you both. So is it safe to assume that this is just political shit slinging then? Creating a political talking point without any real merit? I was actually surprised at the what the argument the former French minister is proposing because the E3 presentation had the assassins throwing (what I interpreted as nobility) people to the masses. Also kind of disappointed to hear that it's more of a backdrop than anything instead of being a central plot point.
 

Madness

Member
Who takes Assassin's Creed games as blind fact for history? It's a video game. And of course people will be nostalgic for the past since it's a part of French history. Any Assassin's Creed game set in Japan, China, India would do the same, no matter how bad the actual regimes and times were viewed under modern lenses.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Robespierre was really the first "strongman" leftist who killed man for the "ends justify the means" line. Robespierre killed and tortured more people than Castro, Pinochet, and Montt combined. He also turned France into a totalitarian nation as anybody who was suspected of against the revolution was sent to prison or worse. I have no doubt that if the revolution happened one hundred and fifty years later he would raked in some serious kill counts.

Except Robespierre voted to abolish the death penalty before the rise of the jacobins, and was largely anti-violent until it was deemed necessary (which it was). France was on the verge of collapse from external forces (and not a lie that people like Stalin used to justify mass purges). Not only that but the jacobins had the popular support of the poor and working people at the time. Not saying the general public is always right, but it's not as if the jacobins were some isolated despotic group that nobody liked.

The "terror" was a necessary, justified, and in some ways moral event. The terror is not separate from the revolution, it's part of the whole package. If the goals of the revolution were just (and they were), then any methods used to get there must be considered. This is just logical, to say the terror shouldn't have occurred is to say the revolution shouldn't have occurred. It's the same with the abolition of slavery, you can't say John Brown was wrong for attempting to murder slave owners, or that the civil war wasn't worth fighting for. If you do you're on the wrong side of history as far as I'm concerned.

I don't agree with all of his policies, but the blanket negative portrayal (not necessarily by you, just saying people in general) is obviously disingenuous. He was a much more moral and principled man than the aristocrats, and the totalitarian nature of the monarchy lasted for much longer, and was more devastating to the people than the terror. For some reason liberals love to defend principles of liberty, equality, etc. but squirm at what was required (not just in France, but all over) to acquire/defend those ideals in the first place.
 

Monocle

Member
I'm glad Ubisoft forced that stupid shit into the games where you're trying to play as a cool assassin, because I might actually consider buying them if they hadn't.
I like the Animus concept. It gives the games a more or less plausible excuse to have a futuristic interface and introduce gamey features like Eagle Vision where they make sense. Works for me.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I don't agree with all of his policies, but the blanket negative portrayal (not necessarily by you, just saying people in general) is obviously disingenuous. He was a much more moral and principled man than the aristocrats, and the totalitarian nature of the monarchy lasted for much longer, and was more devastating to the people than the terror. For some reason liberals love to defend principles of liberty, equality, etc. but squirm at what was required (not just in France, but all over) to acquire/defend those ideals in the first place.

Therein lies the rub. Most critics of Robespierre - and indeed most biographers of Robespierre in general - don't believe he was doing what was required altogether. He went well beyond what was required frequently, to the point where "terror" was synonymous with his application of ideals. In fact, he said it was. Some sort of sick twisted side effect of virtue.

I agree he's hugely more complex than AC or anyone in this OP is letting on, but there's a reason why so many today have difficulty really separating Robespierre from the darker elements of the Revolution. He was the darker elements of the Revolution. He was also other things, of course. Hugely important. Moved the revolution forward in many important and vital ways. But "doing what was required" does not equal the extent of what he did.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Therein lies the rub. Most critics of Robespierre - and indeed most biographers of Robespierre in general - don't believe he was doing what was required altogether. He went well beyond what was required frequently, to the point where "terror" was synonymous with his application of ideals. In fact, he said it was. Some sort of sick twisted side effect of virtue.

I agree he's hugely more complex than AC or anyone in this OP is letting on, but there's a reason why so many today have difficulty really separating Robespierre from the darker elements of the Revolution. He was the darker elements of the Revolution. He was also other things, of course. Hugely important. Moved the revolution forward in many important and vital ways. But "doing what was required" does not equal the extent of what he did.

I agree, but my support for them is within the context of life for people before the revolution, and the goals of the revolution, that's all. Within that framework it's disingenuous to me when other people harp on about Robespierre and the Jacobins while ignoring the despotism of property owners, the monarchy, etc. which lasted much longer.

It is clear to me that if one is forced to choose sides between the republicans and the nobility, you choose the republicans. And for better or worse the Jacobins represented that ideology and did their best to preserve it, in a time where people really were for the first time free to do as they wished. You just can't compare something like the nonviolent movements of the 20th/21st century to 18th century revolutions, but centrists like to do this for some reason, thinking history must be pretty or else it should be shat on.
 

Cocaloch

Member
Except Robespierre voted to abolish the death penalty before the rise of the jacobins, and was largely anti-violent until it was deemed necessary (which it was). France was on the verge of collapse from external forces (and not a lie that people like Stalin used to justify mass purges). Not only that but the jacobins had the popular support of the poor and working people at the time. Not saying the general public is always right, but it's not as if the jacobins were some isolated despotic group that nobody liked.

The "terror" was a necessary, justified, and in some ways moral event. The terror is not separate from the revolution, it's part of the whole package. If the goals of the revolution were just (and they were), then any methods used to get there must be considered. This is just logical, to say the terror shouldn't have occurred is to say the revolution shouldn't have occurred. It's the same with the abolition of slavery, you can't say John Brown was wrong for attempting to murder slave owners, or that the civil war wasn't worth fighting for. If you do you're on the wrong side of history as far as I'm concerned.

I don't agree with all of his policies, but the blanket negative portrayal (not necessarily by you, just saying people in general) is obviously disingenuous. He was a much more moral and principled man than the aristocrats, and the totalitarian nature of the monarchy lasted for much longer, and was more devastating to the people than the terror. For some reason liberals love to defend principles of liberty, equality, etc. but squirm at what was required (not just in France, but all over) to acquire/defend those ideals in the first place.

I'm curious why you think violence was needed for bourgeois revolutions, not to mention why you assume they are "just", when the UK was able to transition essentially bloodlessly. Equating being dominated by the feudal class rather than the middle class, in the smithian sense, to slavery seems a bit disingenuous to me as well.

I would also imagine that Mélenchon doesn't really hold too much truck with the kind of post-modernism that gives rise to the alt-history storytelling of the Creed series

I also don't understand how Asscreed history is in any way post-modernist other than it's dedication to experience, which is basically required by video games as a medium anyway. If anything it's decisively ancient historiographically speaking, relying on the great man theory as it does.
 

GVA1987

Member
This work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.

This.

Besides unlike AC3 the setting really does feel very much in the background in this game rather than something you are part of. (I am only in ACT 4 I think)
 
Top Bottom