CambriaRising
Member
Pretty much.
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Tim Schafer defends Peter Molyneux.
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
Pretty much.
Pinko Marx
Banned
I understand man. I apologize for being dickish. I still disagree and feel the response amongst the majority of the press has been completely justified.
Jim Sterling's latest Jimquisition has pretty accurately described how I feel.
AND WITH THAT I'M GOING BACK TO MONSTER HUNTER.
John Kowalski
Banned
go in peace pinko
thewhitehawk
Member
If the latest Jimquisition accurately describes how you feel, then you should accurately try to display a bit more tact when discussing the matter, like Jim did.
I hope Gore Magala whoops your ass.
Extra Sauce
Member
What does accountability have to do with what I was saying?
I'll repeat the point. It's one thing to call out Peter on his bullshit. He deserved that. The problem is that it did not stop there. At some point this stops being criticism and it becomes a vendetta.
Btw I think you missed a question mark there.
Extra Sauce
Member
Nope.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Mismanagement, sure, but Is is possible to be more transparent that Tim though?
Messofanego
Banned
Not gonna say I'm surprised at the ad hominems towards Tim Schafer.
If Tim Schafer is equivalent to Peter Molyneux as a con man, I guess every delayed game's developer is a con man too.
If Tim Schafer is equivalent to Peter Molyneux as a con man, I guess every delayed game's developer is a con man too.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Here's the thing about Molyneux and Schafer. Both of these guys were parts of really good teams 20 years ago, that made great games, 20 years ago, but because of this they got jumped up to positions they are obviously ill suited for (creative directory, ceo, business manager, producer, whatever they do these days) and because they worked on a few legendary games, 20 years ago, some segment of gamers will give them a continue free pass.
This has been my problem with a lot of KS games. They were pitched by people who left the industry for over 20 years, or simply hadn't done anything noteworthy for 20 years and people gave in with their nostalgia, not understanding that software and game development have radically changed since the 1990s. You can't make a AAA game on the strength of one person's ideas anymore no matter who that person is, but you can sink a lot of time and money if one domineering personality has too much control over a project and not enough ability to realize when they're fucking up.
Guys like Schafer and Molyneux got coddle for far too long and no one is willing to tell them that they keep fucking up OR they have their heads so far up their own asses that it won't matter.
This has been my problem with a lot of KS games. They were pitched by people who left the industry for over 20 years, or simply hadn't done anything noteworthy for 20 years and people gave in with their nostalgia, not understanding that software and game development have radically changed since the 1990s. You can't make a AAA game on the strength of one person's ideas anymore no matter who that person is, but you can sink a lot of time and money if one domineering personality has too much control over a project and not enough ability to realize when they're fucking up.
Guys like Schafer and Molyneux got coddle for far too long and no one is willing to tell them that they keep fucking up OR they have their heads so far up their own asses that it won't matter.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Eh....barring nothing else, there was a stretch goal for linux...and there isn't currently a way to make linux happen.
The artbook/documentary....is in limbo.
There's other stuff that isn't adding up on Godus, and it's not like this was an unknown dev.
It's a little bit of throwing gas onto a fire, but Molyneux isn't some helpless victim, either.
Wasteland 2, for example, got delayed, sure, but Fargo and his team seem to have delivered on relatively reasonable terms, and were transparent throughout the whole thing.
Meanwhile, Broken Age got shipped with half of the game done (I know there are reasons, that Schafer was pretty transparent about it, and that the 2nd half is coming), and Godus looks even worse.
The artbook/documentary....is in limbo.
There's other stuff that isn't adding up on Godus, and it's not like this was an unknown dev.
It's a little bit of throwing gas onto a fire, but Molyneux isn't some helpless victim, either.
Wasteland 2, for example, got delayed, sure, but Fargo and his team seem to have delivered on relatively reasonable terms, and were transparent throughout the whole thing.
Meanwhile, Broken Age got shipped with half of the game done (I know there are reasons, that Schafer was pretty transparent about it, and that the 2nd half is coming), and Godus looks even worse.
funkystudent
Member
Now we just need to get the Yogscast people to comment so we can complete the Kickstarter scam triforce.
R_thanatos
Member
Question what vandetta was there again ?
1 interview with RPS and then.... what happenned ?
I saw nothing different than what was before
All i saw was . 1 eurogamer article about curiosity , 1 RPS article about molyneux and then 1 interview by RPS of molyneux ( that happenned because of the first article ) ..
WHERE THE HECK is the vandetta ?
1 interview != vandetta
Meanwhile everyone across the net did react to the RPS interview and that's it Molyneux lied ...news at 11 .. did something else happenned to make it a VANDETTA ?
IDKAboutThat
Member
The man is either a con artist or incompetent at this point, honestly. Since he wanted his money from the public this time, the public are going to be the ones to hold him accountable, and sometimes that doesn't mean being polite.
Well I'm not well-versed enough in Molyneux's history to completely side one way or another, I have personally been pretty disappointed with what's been going on with Broken Age. A fairly disappointing Act 1 IMO...and still no Act 2 over a year later? Not that he had to chime in, but not altogether too surprising that Schafer isn't raising a pitchfork over Molyneux's actions with Godus.
Imagine a lie that lasts forever
Jacksinthe
Banned
Completely disregarding content changes, length of delays, stretch goals never intended to be met, lying just to get funded, etc.
You are so right. Totally the same as a typical game delay. Yep. Sure is.
King Tubby
Member
This is kind of where I am. He's just in the moment, whatever he says to the public doesn't really matter and he doesn't really think of it. I think he honestly believes those wild dreams when he shares them, and he wants to share his passion for it and he knows people will love it. I don't think he does it maliciously to dupe people. But then the rubber hits the road and all that shit disappears like an etch-a-sketch in a washing machine. He doesn't put any weight in what it is he promises to people, doesn't give it any mind, wonders why people are disappointed and probably needs people to read him back a transcript of his own words so he can remember.
Tranqueris
Banned
But you can't say that he lied or defrauded anyone because he's still 100% committed to finishing the game! Yep, I'm sure the two guys he left in charge of Godus are totally gonna make sure the game is done in a timely fashion, is feature complete, and also magically works with Linux somehow. Then Peter Molyneux will be able to keep his multiplayer required promise (which even the new lead developer of Godus labeled as seriously shaky) to Bryan Henderson. Also known as the guy who Molyneux completely forgot about for two years, even though he won his life changing Curiousity contest.
By the way, I read the RPS interview and for a second Molyneux had me believing that he had way more people on the Godus team but this is really not the case.
CecilRousso
Member
I think it was a pretty fair statement from Schafer. He does says that Molyneux owns resposibility for the game not developing as expected, but that the reactions towards it has been extreme. There's a middle way between letting him of the hook, and every single being on the internet doing their part in the character assassination of him.
I pretty much know the answer, and it will be silly, but in what way is Tim Schafer a con?
I pretty much know the answer, and it will be silly, but in what way is Tim Schafer a con?
I can see the point that the interview was being an asshole, but honestly, he only asked what was on everyone's mind that every other interviewer was afraid to ask.
Molyneux falls into the trap of having more ideas than his studio can handle, and tells everyone about them before the game is even released. Most of the time developers keep that stuff under wraps for a reason...cause the final version tends to be quite different than what was intended at first with cut features and whatnot. This happens with EVERY game, only with Molyneux he tells everyone about his ideas before they even start development on the game itself which gets people hyped up for nothing.
But at a certain point of repetition, you GOT to know he's intentionally doing this for a reason. Hell was there any reason why he couldn't have delayed Godus for fuck-all how long so he can get all the promised features in the game?
Molyneux falls into the trap of having more ideas than his studio can handle, and tells everyone about them before the game is even released. Most of the time developers keep that stuff under wraps for a reason...cause the final version tends to be quite different than what was intended at first with cut features and whatnot. This happens with EVERY game, only with Molyneux he tells everyone about his ideas before they even start development on the game itself which gets people hyped up for nothing.
But at a certain point of repetition, you GOT to know he's intentionally doing this for a reason. Hell was there any reason why he couldn't have delayed Godus for fuck-all how long so he can get all the promised features in the game?
Ice cold
Developer defends fellow developer. Honestly, I don't like Molyneux, but even I thought that interview was unnecessarily aggressive.
If you're talking about Tim Schafer and Broken Age there, you better explain yourself immediately. You're talking out of your ass.
If you're talking about Tim Schafer and Broken Age there, you better explain yourself immediately. You're talking out of your ass.
TatteredHat
Member
Pretty foolish of Tim to get in the line of fire considering the current state of Double Fine's Kickstarter projects.
There's no defending Peter's behaviour over the last 10 years.
There's no defending Peter's behaviour over the last 10 years.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Can you explain those? Especially lying to get funded?
I don't really know what he was referring to, but in addition to Broken Age being quite massively delayed, they ended up just stopping development on Spacebase DF-9 and basically just sold an alpha version.
The situation with Molyneux isn't... erm... black and white. He's probably a fine individual who cares about what he does. It's very possibleif not probablethat he believes the would-be lies that he tells. That said, he misleads everybody constantly and the RPS interview did a fine job of taking him to task for it. Just because it was disrespectful doesn't mean it was somehow illegitimate or undeserved.
Haunted
Member
He's talking about Molyneux.
This is a misrepresentation of the facts. The original tentative release date was for a game budgeted at 300K intended to be a small mobile game. When Episode 2 comes out in March or so, it will have been three years since the KS, an reasonable development period for a full-blown point and click adventure game.
The Spacebase situation is something else, but when it comes to Broken Age Tim and DF have been impossibly transparent to the backers.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Suddenly this seems even more relevant than it did the other day:
Axispowers
Member
Yeah I agree with what he says. He is getting some rough treatment. Even if I hate the fact that a lot of his grandiose ideas dont make it into his games. I feel like the gaming industry benefits from Peter.
Broder Salsa
Banned
I disagree with it being unfair. Harsh? Yes, but I think it was about time someone was harsh towards him and his bullshit. It's not just overpromising on features and such, I understand he gets hyped up with his own games, but more:
1. Admitting to making up features just for the press not to fall asleep, actually lying
2. Blaming everything on others. Even in the RPS he goes on to blame one particular person because he left the company (???, how does this make it alright to just completely forget about the winner of curosity)
3. Admitting he knew Godus budget on kickstarter wasn't enough or realistic, and saying you just feel like making anything up to get your money.
4. Lying about how many are working and have worked on the game.
5. Not fullfilling the kickstarter rewards, which kickstarter is pretty clear about being things you got to deliver, which he just really hasn't been bothered to... and it's probably someones else fault anyway.
6. Getting caught lying and contradicting himself several times just in the RPS interview. Or as he says, not telling the truth, which isn't lying.
Maybe he should listen to his PR guy... Oh wait.
and then he plays the pathetic victim card.
1. Admitting to making up features just for the press not to fall asleep, actually lying
2. Blaming everything on others. Even in the RPS he goes on to blame one particular person because he left the company (???, how does this make it alright to just completely forget about the winner of curosity)
3. Admitting he knew Godus budget on kickstarter wasn't enough or realistic, and saying you just feel like making anything up to get your money.
4. Lying about how many are working and have worked on the game.
5. Not fullfilling the kickstarter rewards, which kickstarter is pretty clear about being things you got to deliver, which he just really hasn't been bothered to... and it's probably someones else fault anyway.
6. Getting caught lying and contradicting himself several times just in the RPS interview. Or as he says, not telling the truth, which isn't lying.
Maybe he should listen to his PR guy... Oh wait.
and then he plays the pathetic victim card.
StrangeTaco
Member
I find it rather hilarious that Schafer of all people is defending Molyneux after his own gaming debacles these last few years.
Anyways while Molyneux deserves all of the criticism coming his way seems like some people might be going a little bit overboard.
Anyways while Molyneux deserves all of the criticism coming his way seems like some people might be going a little bit overboard.
I agree. Spacebase looked real cool but I was so disappointed to see it get abandoned.
CecilRousso
Member
That one is just dumt. I loose a bit of respekt for Rab when I see that.
Brutal Legend wouldn't have even been as big a fiasco if the publishers marketing of it hadn't hidden the RTS aspect the entire time. It was still a pretty good game at that.
While I get the Spacebase complaints, the game was never sold as anything more than an experimental side project that only a couple of devs were fighting tooth and nail to get anywhere. They were pretty open about the issues that caused it to fail too and Valve has since clarified the purpose of Early Access to try and reduce other devs making those mistakes.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Pretty surprised at how some people feel about Schafer, he seemed like a stand up dude to me, extremely endearing and hard working.
Not always getting it right, but always trying to do what's best for the game, the fans and all his employees.
Not always getting it right, but always trying to do what's best for the game, the fans and all his employees.
StrangeTaco
Member
I doubt most people here have problems with him personally, however how he and by extension Double Fine handle game design is questionable.
Sparrowhawk
Member
This is how I feel. He's probably the coolest guy in the industry right now.
Elaborate non-answers it's basically another form of dishonesty, which is what I'm talking about.
Which is lovely, but imagine being sat in a boardroom with the guy and hearing that sob story when you've just flushed millions of your company's dollars away on him "not always getting it right but trying his best." In 99% of jobs that would get your ass fired.
This is where we are now. We aren't just disgruntled consumers any more. We're disgruntled investors. We are, collectively, no different to a Bobby Kotick or a Mark Cerny sat here wondering why the money we gave them didn't turn into what they promised.
Is the public's backlash over Godus really any worse than Microsoft handing Molyneux his cards after repeatedly under-delivering or EA telling Lionhead where to go after getting repeatedly burned by project after project?
Molyneux entered into Kickstarter hoping that he'd get the same funding he'd get from a publisher but without having to deliver to the same standards and that blind consumer loyalty would get him through it all.
But it hasn't worked and it shouldn't ever work.
There's a damn good reason why the likes of Schafer, Molyneux and Inafune aren't currently working for publishers and that's because they have a track record of letting their publishers down.
Now we're the publishers they are letting down and we have every right to be angry if they aren't delivering on what they promised just as EA, Microsoft, Capcom and Activision were.
Uh. maybe mentally? But we're not investors. We're getting no actual return out of this. We're just donating.
We just don't like getting behind the scenes on games, is what I think it is. This shit's been happening since the dawn of electronic entertainment, but it was all internal so we never witnessed it unless some big story broke.
Now we're seeing it all the time. It's really raw. And it sucks.
So maybe that's where we can at least empathize with the dudes in suits.
Most Kickstarter tiers have rewards and you usually get a copy of the game unless you've gone in really low for some insane reason. That's your ROI.