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[Toadthemushroom]

The NX version of DQXI is pretty much guaranteed to be a port of the PS4 game, regardless of the capabilities of the hardware.

The 3DS installbase is big enough to support the game on it's own; PS4 is not. Also the overlap between NX users and 3DS users will presumably be bigger than PS4 and NX, so it gives more people the option to get both games, instead of just a slightly upgrades 3DS port.

Also the PS4 games will almost certainly be way more scalable than the 3DS game which seems very tailored for the 3DS hardware, from the graphics to the dual screen usage. UE4 comes with full source code so they can port it to any platform even if there's no official support.

Thank you kind Sir, wish I could have found the words to explain it like that.

I'd imagine the NX version of DQX will also be based on the PS4 version?

 

[Xellos]

Maybe, maybe not. We have PS3/PS4 games after all.

That is true, but this is not one of those games.

DQ11 on PS4 is using UE4. It makes no sense for SE to port UE4 themselves for a console that hasn't even been unveiled yet. This most likely means that Epic has UE4 working on NX. Epic (literally) laughed at the prospect of putting UE4 on Wii U. It also makes no sense for Epic to get UE4 working on NX just for DQ11. So either Nintendo is working directly with SE and Epic to make this happen, or multiple publishers think UE4 games on NX is a good idea.

 

[E-phonk]

DQ11 on PS4 is using UE4. It makes no sense for SE to port UE4 themselves for a console that hasn't even been unveiled yet. This most likely means that Epic has UE4 working on NX. Epic (literally) laughed at the prospect of putting UE4 on Wii U. It also makes no sense for Epic to get UE4 working on NX just for DQ11. So either Nintendo is working directly with SE and Epic to make this happen, or multiple publishers think UE4 games on NX is a good idea.

Or the rumours of NX being based on ARM + AOSP are true, which means UE4 already runs on NX without needing to adapt it.

 

[EloquentM]

Next year is going to be truly interesting. Nintendo has their back to a wall right now. Let's see what they do, cotton.

 

[XenodudeX]

DQ 11 as a launch title would be amazing

 

[Bots are better than you]

Or the rumours of NX being based on ARM + AOSP are true, which means UE4 already runs on NX without needing to adapt it.

Then it is still a new platform with an userbase of zero until launch, and even after launch, with an userbase that is small.

So, SQEX pretty much won't get a huge amount of money back. The only reason i see a NX version viable for SQEX is, when even the assets can be reused without a hassle ... or with a strecht if downporting the assets is easy as nothing ... but i doubt that.
Meaning the console variant of NX must be at least in the ballpark of PS4/X1.

And that is, if we are really talking about the PS4 version ... but Beril has more insight and knowledge about developing and enviroments, so i think his post does make sense. ^^

 

[E-phonk]

The only reason i see a NX version viable for SQEX is, when even the assets can be reused without a hassle ... or with a strecht if downporting the assets is easy as nothing ... but i doubt that.
Meaning the console variant of NX must be at least in the ballpark of PS4/X1.

User Vena had a good reasoning imo in the Media Create thread, more in line with the discussions about the state of the japanese gaming industry that is going on there:

Its fairly clear cut.

The plan of PS4/3DS tells you exactly the state of the industry in Japan, the PS4 (if anything) is there for the west. They're not crazy enough to let their franchise rot on PS4 in Japan but, all the same, the 3DS version is going to eat heavily into the PS4 sales same as 3DS Smash ate into Smash WiiU... which ends up becoming a bit of a self defeating prophecy in "saving consoles" but theres only so much money you'd burn on a hopeless struggle. The only difference between the two games is graphics from what has been shown (and possibly some of the overall world design) with the 3DS, of all things, seemingly having more features and nostalgia hooks. I would expect sales to be heavily lopsided, and the story being the same is going to greatly limit double-dipping outside of the core players, who probably already own all the relevant consoles.

The reason the NX showed up is because SE is also hedging their bets on building up a new fanbase on the next handheld because even if it will probably sell less than the 3DS, it will still likely dominate the market.

The market is currently volatile and heading towards a big inflection point when the 3DS retires. Either consoles magically recover (they won't, and the PS3's ability to sell software is anemic and the Vita is a path already laid low), or publishers who want to sell games in Japan needs to hope that the next handheld does well and replaces the 3DS. If nothing steps up, without the 3DS, the market losses half of its entire software moving capabilities. Obviously, though, Nintendo would not want that to happen and is likely making deals with various developers in Japan. This is probably one such deal and, more than likely, means that SE has their hands on development blueprints or kits for the NX.

 

[InsaneZero]

I think that DQ11 NX is going to a port of DQ11 PS4 primarily because porting over a game built on a cross-platform engine is infinitely easier than porting over a game built on a engine built specifically for the 3DS. They would not be talking about the NX version even before the platform even formally revealed unless they had a significant degree of confidence in making it run on the NX already, and that would be highly unlikely if they had to do a nontrivial amount of work in porting the game.

Which would also mean that the NX will support UE4 in some official capacity, since SE sure as heck wouldn't put in the effort otherwise.

 

[AlStrong]

A57s SIMD register set-up appears to match up with the Jaguars in XB1 and PS4. I will refer you to Blu's response to a similar question.



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=172476062&postcount=932

I see.

However, I don't think "simply" having the same register count is quite the same thing as performance.

edit:

Not saying that Jaguar is magic or anything, of course.

 

[daakusedo]

The 3DS installbase is big enough to support the game on it's own; PS4 is not.

I don't need much to think too it's the ue4 version that will be on nx, reinforced by the fact that there is indeed a 3ds version even when a simple developer comment suddently made it unlikely despite the situation in Japan.

 

[Xellos]

Or the rumours of NX being based on ARM + AOSP are true, which means UE4 already runs on NX without needing to adapt it.

Ah, OK. I hadn't considered that, but I guess it is another possibility.

I suppose I am jumping to conclusions a bit. The hype of DQ11 and UE4 on NX got to me!

It will be interesting to watch how this develops in the coming months.

 

[Bots are better than you]

User Vena had a good reasoning imo in the Media Create thread, more in line with the discussions about the state of the japanese gaming industry that is going on there:

Pretty nice explanation ... you could sum it up as "Nintendo has japanese thirds at their balls in regard to japanese software sales" ... but many thirds seem to adapt that mobile focus, see Konami, as they are able to get things covered there. If Nintendo can get some deals out of this, fine with me, but i think this will change if more pubs and devs go mobile in japan and console in the west.

 

[E-phonk]

Pretty nice explanation ... you could sum it up as "Nintendo has japanese thirds at their balls in regard to japanese software sales" ... but many thirds seem to adapt that mobile focus, see Konami, as they are able to get things covered there. If Nintendo can get some deals out of this, fine with me, but i think this will change if more pubs and devs go mobile in japan and console in the west.

I wouldn't say "by the balls", but reality is that SE, Level5 and Capcom have million selling titles on 3DS and know their userbase (in japan) is there. It's in their own interest the next nintendo portable is a success, as it is unlikely Sony will release a follow up for Vita.
It helps that most SE/Level5/Capcom titles also sell well in the west on 3DS.

 

[Trago]

So I take it that pitch to third parties for the NX at E3 probably helped? At least as far as Square's concerned.

 

[Bots are better than you]

I wouldn't say "by the balls", but reality is that SE, Level5 and Capcom have million selling titles on 3DS and know their userbase (in japan) is there. It's in their own interest the next nintendo portable is a success, as it is unlikely Sony will release a follow up for Vita.
It helps that most SE/Level5/Capcom titles also sell well in the west on 3DS.

SQEX not so much i guess ... there is no other explanation for the lack of a localization for the 7/8 remakes ... sadly.

Though, I still think that they are in a shaky position, i can imagine that series like Monster Hunter and Youkai Watch go mobile japan/console west, those titles are generating successful numbers without platform dependency, so going that route could cover them.
In the end, they only have their own IPs to control the direction.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Does or did IBM ever fab any mobile chips? I'm guessing the answer is no. So an AMD mobile solution for their handheld and AMD high end product for console. We just don't know on what level.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Does or did IBM ever fab any mobile chips? I'm guessing the answer is no. So an AMD mobile solution for their handheld and AMD high end product for console. We just don't know on what level.

No, which is why Apple shifted over to Intel years back. Since then, IBM has moved even more in the direction of gigantic server CPUs, and now they are fabless.

Either way, I'm hearing murmers of no Wii U BC. That Tamaki dude seemed to imply it at least and it matches up w/ other stuff. My belief is that the new Membership Program will offer some type of incentive/compensation to Wii U owners instead.

 

[virtualS]

I'm guessing PS4+ AMD APU. 4GB HBM memory + 2GB DDR3 in a small form factor.

If they're working with IBM again then who knows. The same thing probably but substituting out Jaguar.

I'd say the NX version of DQ will be the definitive one. Also with NX and 3DS supported, looks like NX is a home console.

 

[LegendofLex]

The quote:

Wii U architecture could be interpreted as eshop/miiverse/nnid instead of the PowerPC CPU.

Why would Iwata say that the next platform/the idea of absorbing the Wii U architecture with their next platform is their solution to the problem of porting software and assets between systems if he was really talking about shared services, which are a totally different thing? (Not to mention a thing that doesn't have anything to do with Wii U as their services are already largely platform agnostic.)

 

[Fourth Storm]

Why would Iwata say that the next platform/the idea of absorbing the Wii U architecture with their next platform is their solution to the problem of porting software and assets between systems if he was really talking about shared services, which are a totally different thing? (Not to mention a thing that doesn't have anything to do with Wii U as their services are already largely platform agnostic.)

Iwata talked about "absorption" in the context of taking advantage of what their devs accomplished on Wii U. Basically, he doesn't want to throw out the entire Wii U development environment. This doesn't mean they were aiming for BC. To the contrary, Iwata expressed how BC had failed to carry over users from Wii in his investor presentation from January 2014.

NX will have similar architecture to Wii U but ARM instead of PPC, more and faster RAM, etc...

 

[TheAngryMonkey]

Iwata talked about "absorption" in the context of taking advantage of what their devs accomplished on Wii U. Basically, he doesn't want to throw out the entire Wii U development environment. This doesn't mean they were aiming for BC. To the contrary, Iwata expressed how BC had failed to carry over users from Wii in his investor presentation from January 2014.

NX will have similar architecture to Wii U but ARM instead of PPC, more and faster RAM, etc...

Depends on their tools. Could be like how Apple transitioned from PPC to Intel, just recompile.

EDIT: Where "recompile" might require a few platform specific changes but it was a simple bit of porting and recompiling for my old Mac projects.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, which is why Apple shifted over to Intel years back. Since then, IBM has moved even more in the direction of gigantic server CPUs, and now they are fabless.

Either way, I'm hearing murmers of no Wii U BC. That Tamaki dude seemed to imply it at least and it matches up w/ other stuff. My belief is that the new Membership Program will offer some type of incentive/compensation to Wii U owners instead.

Would make sense. I'm really hoping VC titles carry over without having to pay for them again. Maybe offer a discount on Smash Bros for people who bought Smash DLC on Wii U? Things of that nature.

 

[jmizzal]

Assuming NX is getting the PS4 version of DQ11, this bodes well for the ability of NX to handle third party ports, and for the capabilities of NX hardware in general.

Nintendo would be smart to base NX off PS4 hardware, they can both get all the big Japanese games and it will be easy to port and keep everybody happy.

I can see MH next being NX/PS4

 

[DieH@rd]

I'd say the NX version of DQ will be the definitive one.

lol, let's not get carried away

 

[evilromero]

I'd say the NX version of DQ will be the definitive one. Also with NX and 3DS supported, looks like NX is a home console.

I just don't see this happening based on past Nintendo hardware trends.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Nintendo would be smart to base NX off PS4 hardware, they can both get all the big Japanese games and it will be easy to port and keep everybody happy.

I can see MH next being NX/PS4

They don't need to base it off PS4 hardware. Well, the GPU is AMD, so they are halfway there. But they obviously have UE4 support. That's a major win.

 

[Vena]

No, which is why Apple shifted over to Intel years back. Since then, IBM has moved even more in the direction of gigantic server CPUs, and now they are fabless.

Either way, I'm hearing murmers of no Wii U BC. That Tamaki dude seemed to imply it at least and it matches up w/ other stuff. My belief is that the new Membership Program will offer some type of incentive/compensation to Wii U owners instead.

Ooh now I'm curious on what other murmurs you've heard.

Spill the beans mister! There better be a Splat2n on launch.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Iwata talked about "absorption" in the context of taking advantage of what their devs accomplished on Wii U. Basically, he doesn't want to throw out the entire Wii U development environment. This doesn't mean they were aiming for BC. To the contrary, Iwata expressed how BC had failed to carry over users from Wii in his investor presentation from January 2014.

NX will have similar architecture to Wii U but ARM instead of PPC, more and faster RAM, etc...

So we could be looking at a console with a MCM, EDRAM, and faster MEM 1. What fab process can TSMC use to fab such a chip, assuming it's not just a slightly tweaked Latte.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

They don't need to base it off PS4 hardware. Well, the GPU is AMD, so they are halfway there. But they obviously have UE4 support. That's a major win.

Based on the Dragon Quest thing? That's on 3DS as well, so we really don't know that yet.

 

[Fourth Storm]

So we could be looking at a console with a MCM, EDRAM, and faster MEM 1. What fab process can TSMC use to fab such a chip, assuming it's not just a slightly tweaked Latte.

I'm thinking more like an SoC w/ eSRAM like Xbox One. Just somewhat less capable. MEM1 would be DDR4. If they use DDR4 2400, they can get like 38 GB/s to Mem 1 w/ only 8 RAM chips (2x as many as Wii U, but half the current HD twins).

Process would likely be Globalfoundries 28nm or 14nm. I expect Nintendo and AMD both want a standard process that they can port over easily to another fab if need be, though.

 

[AmyS]

Nintendo World Report editorial: Dragon Quest XI Says Everything And Nothing About The NX

The nature of Dragon Quest XI’s details – 3DS version that plays with choice of a 3D or 2D world and a PS4 version running on Unreal Engine 4 – set off alarm bells. Surely the NX supports UE4, right? It better, for the sake of the system, but XI’s wildly divergent consoles gives two potential porting paths. If the NX OS port is for Japan, then it’s destined for Nintendo’s next handheld since we know that will sell in Japan. In that case it’d be far easier – and less expensive – for Square Enix to port up the 3DS version. If they decide to port the PS4 version to Nintendo’s next console that runs NX OS, it’s not going to sell as well in Japan because Square’s efforts to revive consoles there can only go so far, and the Western sales of Nintendo consoles that aren’t the Wii have historically trended down so you can’t use “Console version for the West” as an excuse to bring the game over. Odds are pretty much even that the port works out one of those ways, and we know it’s releasing after 3DS/PS4 launch, which could come as late as March 2017 in Japan. (The launch is set for the fiscal year containing Dragon Quest’s 30th anniversary, so April 2016 – March 2017, and it will be simultaneous.)

It's a pretty decent read. The rest here: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/...t-xi-says-everything-and-nothing-about-the-nx

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I'm thinking more like an SoC w/ eSRAM like Xbox One. Just somewhat less capable. MEM1 would be DDR4. If they use DDR4 2400, they can get like 38 GB/s to Mem 1 w/ only 8 RAM chips (2x as many as Wii U, but half the current HD twins).

Process would likely be Globalfoundries 28nm or 14nm. I expect Nintendo and AMD both want a standard process that they can port over easily to another fab if need be, though.

So eDRAM takes up to much die space.

 

[Fourth Storm]

So eDRAM takes up to much die space.

eSRAM takes up about 3x more space actually (and draws about 5x the power), but only intel and IBM/GF are making eDRAM now. It requires a specialty manufacturing process and that bit Nintendo in the ass w/ Wii U's chipset.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Is the gpu side of the nx really going to be less than ps4s? Why wouldn't nintendo just tell amd they want a variation of the xb1/ps4 apu since they're already making a shit ton of them?

 

[atbigelow]

Is the gpu side of the nx really going to be less than ps4s? Why wouldn't nintendo just tell amd they want a variation of the xb1/ps4 apu since they're already making a shit ton of them?

Cost.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Cost.

I guess if they're pushing for a $199 launch? But seriously by the time the nx releases xb1 might be $199.

 

[Socordia]

I guess if they're pushing for a $199 launch? But seriously by the time the nx releases xb1 might be $199.

Just because microsoft loves losing money doesn´t mean nintendo does too.

 

[Rodin]

I guess if they're pushing for a $199 launch? But seriously by the time the nx releases xb1 might be $199.

No way it'll be less than 299.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I guess if they're pushing for a $199 launch? But seriously by the time the nx releases xb1 might be $199.

Both Sony and MS are pushing for higher prices. MS is in the 2nd position so they are slightly cheaper that Sony. Neither are dropping to $200 any time soon.

I'd applaud Nintendo if they released something equivalent to the Nvidia Shield Android TV box at $199. It would certainly put Sony and MS on the defensive, and if it took off, it would make for a very interesting situation indeed.

A $200 Nintendo console in 2016 could be about like a $100 Nintendo console in 1986......

 

[ZOONAMI]

No way it'll be less than 299.

The problem is if its $299 no one will buy it. They'll just buy a ps4. Same situation they're in right now with Wii U.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Both Sony and MS are pushing for higher prices. MS is in the 2nd position so they are slightly cheaper that Sony. Neither are dropping to $200 any time soon.

I'd applaud Nintendo if they released something equivalent to the Nvidia Shield Android TV box at $199. It would certainly put Sony and MS on the defensive, and if it took off, it would make for a very interesting situation indeed.

A $200 Nintendo console in 2016 could be about like a $100 Nintendo console in 1986......

I'd wager the xbox one will be $199 msrp at some point in 2017, the same year this nx thing is most likely to come out.

 

[Vena]

I'd wager the xbox one will be $199 msrp at some point in 2017, the same year this nx thing is most likely to come out.

NX is 2016.

 

[Servbot24]

NX is 2016.

If it's 2016 it will only be for a month or two.

 

[bomblord1]

Is the gpu side of the nx really going to be less than ps4s?

Where did this come from?

 

[OmegaSmash]

NX is 2016.

Has Nintendo ever done a hardware reveal/release in the same year?

 

[ZOONAMI]

Where did this come from?

Unseen64 twitter, which has been very reliable rumor source.

 

[Vena]

If it's 2016 it will only be for a month or two.

There's are reasons to doubt that the handheld will launch overly late into 2016.

Has Nintendo ever done a hardware reveal/release in the same year?

They don't have much choice. Delaying the WiiUs release killed their momentum, and the 3DS has to retire soon for more middle-ware capable hardware.

Unseen64 twitter, which has been very reliable rumor source.

Did he outright say the GPU is weaker? Or are we still at the original rumor?

 

[bachikarn]

Unseen64 twitter, which has been very reliable rumor source.

Are they? What have they gotten right?

 

[Rodin]

The problem is if its $299 no one will buy it. They'll just buy a ps4. Same situation they're in right now with Wii U.

I was talking about Xbox One, no way Microsoft will push it under 299$ (it will probably stay at 350 with bundles). NX will be ~250 at D1 imho.

Did he outright say the GPU is weaker? Or are we still at the original rumor?

He said that NX will not compete with PS4. What it really means remains to be seen, but i wouldn't expect something around 1.8tflops anyway.

Is there a source for this? I know it's confirmed that we'll hear about it more in 2016, but when has it been said it's definitely releasing in 2016? Thanks.

Never, but we can assume at least one "version" of it will release next year.

 

[Neoxon]

Is the gpu side of the nx really going to be less than ps4s? Why wouldn't nintendo just tell amd they want a variation of the xb1/ps4 apu since they're already making a shit ton of them?

Didn't he allude to good news about the NX recently that's related to the whole power debate?