brainchild
Banned
I'm not even sure if the bolded would apply. People who demonstrate such willful ignorance deserve no pity from me.
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Charlie Hebdo publishes cartoon of drowned Syrian toddler, "Muslims sink"
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
- Status
I'm not even sure if the bolded would apply. People who demonstrate such willful ignorance deserve no pity from me.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
No, it's saying "lol dead muslim kid".
Have you seen some of the cheap shot jokes in serious threads in OT? Of course we're Charlie.
Without the context of how the refugee crisis is treated in the articles contained in the paper (including an editorial piece by the artist, Riss) you're only setting yourself for saying dumb shit.
Shuggananas
Banned
Chuckie
Member
No people keep telling radicals and terrorists to respect freedom and not kill artists.
Anybody has the right to discuss cartoons, think they are disgusting etc.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
This cartoon has succeeded in so many ways.
1. It has drawn so much attention , no pun intended
2. Pointed out how awful the situation is
3. Trolled the shit out of many gaffers
Kudos
1. It has drawn so much attention , no pun intended
2. Pointed out how awful the situation is
3. Trolled the shit out of many gaffers
Kudos
you don't get it
Eh, no it isn't. At all.
You can find this cartoon tasteless, and that's your right, but don't turn it into something that it isn't. As it was said before, the cartoon is more about the European indifference then about Aryan.
I don't think Charlie Hebdo is the second coming satire wise, most of their stuff I find pretty bad and I think they are way better cartoonists out there (fellow Belgian countryman Lectrr is killing it), but the controversy is way overblown. Seriously.
I mean, that sentiment is the premise for this whole thread. So they're hardly at fault (if it is sarcasm).
Poe's law.
mugurumakensei
Member
Can it really be sarcasm if somebody might agree with it?
People always become pretty dumb when it comes to Charlie Hebdo. I guess it's some misguided attempt to be political correct.
Remember this thing?
America’s Literary Elite Takes a Bold Stand Against Dead Journalists
Remember this thing?
America’s Literary Elite Takes a Bold Stand Against Dead Journalists
DerangedHermit
Member
Uh, yeah?
Gravy Boat
Member
This isn't even clever satire, it's really on the nose. How are people still convinced that this is somehow anti-muslim? Wether or not you find it in bad taste is a separate matter completely, but it's very clear that this image is almost the complete opposite of anti-muslim.
MisterR
Member
Where is Modbot when you need him. This has become a thread half full of people who don't understand what satire is and the other half full of people having to explain it to them over and over. At which point they still don't understand it. It is an indictment or our education system.
Pizza Luigi
Member
But you all were Charlie before!
What?
And I suppose the background of your avatar says that you like the colors of the rainbow.
Forgive me if I misunderstood you but this thread has confused the hell out of me.
It was sarcasm.
You guys are sarcasm/satire illiterate. I blame the internet and smileys/animated gifs.
I'm amazed by how many people fail to get Charlie Hebdo.
These cartoons are so clearly a critique of Western attitudes towards Muslims, and the outrageous excesses of our culture juxtaposed with the suffering of refugees, I don't know how anyone could read them otherwise.
It's not subtle, it is in fact brash and downright offensive in its directness, which is the whole point.
These cartoons are so clearly a critique of Western attitudes towards Muslims, and the outrageous excesses of our culture juxtaposed with the suffering of refugees, I don't know how anyone could read them otherwise.
It's not subtle, it is in fact brash and downright offensive in its directness, which is the whole point.
If your cartoon is only offending people who would otherwise be agreeing with your point, then you're doing it wrong.
So, yeah, I'm mad at a magazine that uses offensive imagery and doesn't say anything new or profound with it.
Which is why I'm not surprised that people question whether or not this Charlie Hebdo cartoonist really cares about Muslim Syrian refugees.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Not that I think Charlie Hebdo is particularly witty, but the language/culture difference could cause some element of their cartoons getting 'lost in translation' if the OP's anything to go off.
I'm wondering how Cartman in South Park comes across in non-English versions, since it's pretty obvious all his rants about Jews and other minorities are funny because you're meant to be laughing at him, not with him. Sorta like how in most Hebdo cartoons you're (usually) meant to be laughing at the mindset being presented, not sympathize with it.
Though then I guess you have the issue that dumb and/or bigoted people are going to genuinely agree with what's being presented, but I feel that's an unfortunate, unavoidable part of satire.
I'm wondering how Cartman in South Park comes across in non-English versions, since it's pretty obvious all his rants about Jews and other minorities are funny because you're meant to be laughing at him, not with him. Sorta like how in most Hebdo cartoons you're (usually) meant to be laughing at the mindset being presented, not sympathize with it.
Though then I guess you have the issue that dumb and/or bigoted people are going to genuinely agree with what's being presented, but I feel that's an unfortunate, unavoidable part of satire.
M0nochromatic
Member
This is an incredibly depressing read.
Offeding sensitive people is a great way to incite debate and help desensitize.
After seeing 1000 Mohamed cartoons, I am sure a hardline muslim will be less shocked/offended than seeing his his ever.
Mr. Giggles
Member
I get that its satire... Just wished they used other examples of the crisis to get their point across.
The image of the dead toddler is still etched in to my mind and I admit at first my knee jerk reaction was to get mad at the paper.
The image of the dead toddler is still etched in to my mind and I admit at first my knee jerk reaction was to get mad at the paper.
PdotMichael
Banned
South Park is so unfunny and bad in the international versions as in the original.
This misunderstanding is also coming from Europeans.
What forums other than gaf do you use? Gaf regularly purges people who would express anti-muslim sentiments so you wouldn't know if they're feeling overly scrutinized here.
No, you're doing it right.
A photo of a dead child provokes a feeling of that's sad, why aren't we doing more. It calls on us to help.
This cartoon exposes the attitudes that led to that tragedy, says this is why we weren't doing more, and shows the hypocrisy of it. It shames us.
Which is more profound? And which leads to a better understanding by communicating all that in a way people can't ignore and are then forced to discuss. Rather than have to want to become better informed on the subject.
The number of people missing the context and message of an incredibly blunt cartoon says those conversations weren't being had enough.
The Shadow Knight
Member
To be fair, inferring sarcasm from text can be tricky at times.
Though it was pretty obvious here to me
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
archangelmorph
Member
Sure for Bad Satire...
Good Satire:
- Intelligent/informed people get it, laugh at it and praise it's cleverness, execution and thought-provocation
- Dumb/bigoted people shuffle and frown uncomfortably, being faced with the reality of their own sh** ideologies
We saw no end to the people drawing moronic (not to mention offensive) comparisons between Muhammad caricatures and holocaust denial shortly after the Charlie Hebdo massacre, I wonder if those same people are even batting an eye at this, I wonder if we're gonna have riots in the streets.
Maninthemirror
Banned
people cant get the fact they know its satire, and they are still disgusted that they used a dead toddler cartoon in the same way as the picture as a plot ploy for their satire to make their point about europe. They ended up not offending Europe but the refugees and people helping the refugees in the region, its just an example of poor satire and a poor concept. if they were good at what they did they would do satire which actually worked.
by your logic if those belgian cartoonists drew their racist cartoons today as they did in the early 20th century and would keep drawing it to incite debate, you would be less shocked/offended by it. when in reality you and I would remain shocked by it because their point offense hurts. Would you ever be less offended by a racist cartoon of that period if someone kept drawing it today to incite debate? stop the hypocrisy
entremet
Member
lol. so true.
Mocking a religious figurehead or followers of a religion isn't implicitly racist, and I won't defend racist cartoons.
Maninthemirror
Banned
no its not really racist, its mocking the idea of a way of living shared by good people and evil people like every society and painting the broad stroke just because you don't agree with it. Mocking of the way of living is also one of the reasons Hitler started to hate jews because he hated the ideals they lived by and what how they went about. You think hating on ideas cannot snowball into one hate to kill? not now then eventually? how will you stop that snowball effect? you wont, because people like the copout way of hate ideas in broad strokes not thinking of consequences
He believed conspiracy theories about jews controlling the world and causing Germany to loose WWI, it wasn't after a slippery slope of mocking jews until he put them in camps.
Irrational actions based of acquired beliefs without introspection or evalutation is the true human ennemy.
You know what's the beauty of this picture? That right-wing assholes - those who shout out loud that we shouldn't let "Muslim cattle" into our countries, those who state that using photos of this kid's body was an emotional blackmail, those who claim that the photo was a manipulation (the body was moved so that the press could get a better shot) - those people are now offended by the cartoon, stating that Charlie Hebdo is awful and overstepped the mark. Oh the irony.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
This simply isn't true. There are always going to be people too dumb to get the joke. Or alternatively, a bunch of people who don't have the frame of reference for the joke and don't understand it because they lack context. Especially in something like satire.
You're essentially saying that unless 100% of people understand a joke, then it's a poorly told joke. Which would mean that pretty much anything more nuanced then the simplest of knock knock jokes isn't good because people misconstrue jokes all of the time.
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