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[Audioboxer]

This thread outs people who would be first in line to curtail human rights because they disagreed with something.

I wouldn't go that far, but more so people have absolutely no idea what freedom of speech is and instead think it = saying things the "majority" would agree with.

Luckily people sitting at their computer chairs or on a couch on their phone largely have zero ability to infringe on human rights. Just make some noise and/or throw in their criticism, anger or upset into the debate. Which is fine, as the irony of freedom of speech goes both ways. You can act like someone has killed your dog or be as passive as can be. As long as no one is doing anything illegal or inciting violence (or carrying out actual violence), it's all fair speech. And it's all fair criticism.

 

[Jean Grey Will Rise]

Or at any of the countless racist depictions of Africans and African-Americans and other ethnic groups.

my thoughts exactly

 

[fabricated backlash]

A missed chance really since after the last quake Italy actually tried seismologists of witchcraft, or better their lack of using their witchcraft to foretell a quake. (go look it up, the trial was a disgrace and an everlasting blemish on modern Italy)

 

[kame-sennin]

This is what I wonder. Or are they being edgy af just because?

Edit: I can understand the point they make when they draw Mohammad, for instance, but for a lot of other things I just don't get it.

What you don't get is that they are making the same point every time; that they're a shitty, tasteless, bigoted rag.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

But but freedom of speech/expression!!!
They're important and brave!!

 

[kame-sennin]

Yeah, it's terrible this time, they need to apologize.

Wow. Guess Muslim's ain't shit, huh?

 

[commedieu]

SHUT IT DOWN.

no, thought it would be worse to be honest. They seem to get off on this sort of stuff. But if you promote free speech, you have to take the good with the bad for private entities.

 

[Breads]

This thread outs people who would be first in line to curtail human rights because they disagreed with something.

Are they not free to criticize something they don't like? I don't think I read anyone saying the government should have put a stop to what they are doing.

Make no mistake though - I continue to believe that hate speech should not be protected and I do no accept the slippery slope/ who determines what is hate counter point.

But yeah - this topic does indeed out people for not understanding what free speech means.

 

[tanooki27]

I don't get why you'd have to satirize a natural disaster.

because it happened and caused pain. that is satire's bag, baby. it ain't just the onion

 

[Skinpop]

Are they not free to criticize something they don't like?

sure but most who criticize seem to not understand what satire is. maybe it's an american thing.

 

[necrosis]

Yes, actually, it is really shocking that people would want to inflict harm over drawings. The fuck is wrong with those people?

yeah i can't imagine why, among others, the adherents of an aniconistic religion -- adherents who are willing to die, and regularly do die, for their beliefs -- would respond poorly to being antagonized

i am not saying that anyone deserved, or does deserve, to be killed, but it is probably not in one's best interests to run about poking hornet nests

imo

 

[Peco]

I am Italian and I thought this was kinda funny. Perhaps a bit generic and uninspired but still on point for what it's trying to say.

 

[Kurtofan]

Satirical news magazine reports the news in a satirical manner.

 

[formasymphonic]

I'll be honest, I've never found their brand of satire funny, intelligent, nor truly thought provoking.

This has only added to that sentiment. I'm also disappointed by anyone who was ok with the Islamic/racist themed satire but is now suddenly not ok with this. This is what CH is — you can't stand up for their right to saying things like this for some but not others.

 

[Gangster Bastard]

i am not saying that anyone deserved, or does deserve, to be killed, but it is probably not in one's best interests to run about poking hornet nests

But it might be necessary, as the killings proved.

 

[starchild excalibur]

Based off the description I was thinking, "Eh, maybe they're going to satirize the articles that would always mention - amidst talking about the devastation - the fact that the city was known for a certain pasta. Maybe they're taking a jab at the need to always point out the importance of this meal when the gravity of the situation should be enough." But looking at the comic, that's not what comes across at all. It just comes off as tasteless.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Just horrible, like always with them. Freedom of speech is good but not for shit like this.

Birth of a supervillain

 

[ScatheZombie]

I think the problem is more that this isn't even satire. It's not dark humor. It's not making a political statement or having a significant underlying meaning. It's just fucking lazy. Italy was hit by an earthquake that killed a lot of people. Italians also like pasta. That's not satire to put those two together. That's... just making two irrelevant statements and smashing them together.

I'm more offended by how shit of an attempt at satire this is than the actual content of the 'comic' itself. Like, I understand your shtick is offensive satirical dark humor. But at least actually do that.

 

[Kurtofan]

I don't know why you get to decide what is dark humor and what isn't.

 

[SilentRacoon]

I am Italian and I thought this was kinda funny. Perhaps a bit generic and uninspired but still on point for what it's trying to say.

What's the point the comic is trying to make? seen many people saying the outrage is due to people missing the point without providing any context as to what the FIRST cartoon referred in the OP is trying to make.

 

[radios shipping overview]

sure but most who criticize seem to not understand what satire is. maybe it's an american thing.

Satire doesn't work unless you understand the context. The cartoons do not provide context. People outside France (or Italy) may not be up to speed on what the cartoons are satirizing, so the only thing left to the cartoons for that audience is the scribbles, which are consistently provocative on their own, and broadly so.

This will continue to happen as long as Charlie Hebdo exists in its current form and as long as we have an internet.

And anyway, calling something satire doesn't mean it's excused for being lazy, sloppy, or cruel.

 

[eso76]

I am outraged.

At the fact French need to translate every foreign name into French. It's Lasagna or lasagne, ffs.


Well, it was unnecessary, then again I feel the same about their entire output, but there IS an underlying message.
Their point is there's a number of buildings in Italy that were built 'by the Mafia' as in, with contracts assigned directly by or to 'please' criminal organisations and in some cases, people in charge decided they could save some money on safety measures etc. and 'eat' it instead.

it's what Charlie hebdo does, nothing new.

 

[Red Frost]

What's the French reaction to this? Perhaps there's some nuance we're not understanding.

But even if there isn't I do think it's good that tasteless comics like this exist to remind us of the importance of free speech. Still tasteless though.

 

[Costia]

I am Italian and I thought this was kinda funny. Perhaps a bit generic and uninspired but still on point for what it's trying to say.

What is it trying to say?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

How do people get "it's about the buildings and the Mafia" from the FIRST comic? How?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Are they not free to criticize something they don't like? I don't think I read anyone saying the government should have put a stop to what they are doing.

Make no mistake though - I continue to believe that hate speech should not be protected and I do no accept the slippery slope/ who determines what is hate counter point.

But yeah - this topic does indeed out people for not understanding what free speech means.

Hate speech is actually forbidden in France, so it doesn't apply here.

 

[necrosis]

But it might be necessary, as the killings proved.

how did they "prove" anything of the sort lol

 

[krang]

What is it trying to say?

I'd love to be enlightened, also.

 

[exmachina64]

Don't really get the point of this one, not only is it completely tasteless it's just a shit joke. There's no satire there, there's no point being made.

Charlie Hebdo, ladies and gentlemen!

 

[MCN]

Feels very pointless and crude.

Like pretty much everything they do? If nothing is out of bounds, then nothing is out of bounds. You can't say they should be allowed to take the piss out of muslims, then say that Italians are out of bounds.

 

[Rembrandt]

This thread outs people who would be first in line to curtail human rights because they disagreed with something.

What a incredibly huge assumption.

 

[Kurtofan]

How do people get "it's about the buildings and the Mafia" from the FIRST comic? How?

People love to take things out of context. Context is hard.

 

[Kinyou]

People love to take things out of context. Context is hard.

I definitely would like to see the entire page.

 

[Gangster Bastard]

how did they "prove" anything of the sort lol

Depends if you consider the present state of affairs, which you described in your previous post, to be acceptable.

It's clear to me that any figure that is capable of inspiring it's followers to commit cold blooded murder (among other things) desperately needs to be cut down to size, dragged down to our level to be undressed and exposed. This is where satire can play an important societal function, it's not about dick waving for the sake of it.

 

[sobaka770]

Just as funny as to say that the terrorist attack on their office is the best PR campaign they ever got. Maybe get a small comic showing the magazine owner paying Bin Laden or something like that. Crude and tasteless - check, true - very much so. Just look at how many threads we get about a small satirical magazine which should not get this kind of coverage.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Just as funny as to say that the terrorist attack on their office is the best PR campaign they ever got. Maybe get a small comic showing the magazine owner paying Bin Laden or something like that. Crude and tasteless - check, true - very much so. Just look at how many threads we get about a small satirical magazine which should not get this kind of coverage.

They did make fun of the terrorist attack on their office:

Death is laughing, saying "I'm subscribing!"

But anyway Bin Laden died four years before the terrorist attack on their office so I'll just consider you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[SilentRacoon]

They did make fun of the terrorist attack on their office:

Death is laughing, saying "I'm subscribing!"

But anyway Bin Laden died four years before the terrorist attack on their office so I'll just consider you have no idea what you're talking about.

So that's what the deaths of their fellow co-workers ultimately means to them, more subscribers...

 

[Straight Edge]

What a incredibly huge assumption.

HINT they're the posters saying that freedom of speech has gone too far.

 

[Ron Mexico]

So that's what the deaths of their fellow co-workers ultimately means to them, more subscribers...

I'm sure that was it. Had nothing at all to do with satire being their whole raison d'etre (on mobile so please excuse the poor French). Yep. Just a ploy for readership.

Man I love outrage culture. We might not know what we're talking about but my god are we pissed off about it!!

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

So that's what the deaths of their fellow co-workers ultimately means to them, more subscribers...

Absolutely, it was all a marketing ploy. They probably even gave the key to their office to the terrorists to gain a few thousand subscribers, how brilliant!

 

[SilentRacoon]

Absolutely, it was all a marketing ploy. They probably gave the key to their office to the terrorists to gain a few thousand subscribers, how brilliant!

When did I called it a ploy? lol you guys are delusional putting words in my mouth.

 

[Audioboxer]

So that's what the deaths of their fellow co-workers ultimately means to them, more subscribers...

I mean that's just... what?

I really don't know how anyone could walk away thinking that, regardless of where CH fall on your spectrum of love/hate.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

lol you guys are delusional putting words in my mouth.

Lmao the irony

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

When did I called it a ploy? lol you guys are delusional putting words in my mouth.

What you wrote was that more subscribers was more meaningful to them than the life of their colleagues. I took a ridiculous comment and made it more ridiculous. Sarcasm.

 

[MUnited83]

So that's what the deaths of their fellow co-workers ultimately means to them, more subscribers...

Holy shit some here couldnt get satire even if satire hit then square in the face

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

So today we learned that everybody wants freedom of speech as long its speech they like.

So that's what the deaths of their fellow co-workers ultimately means to them, more subscribers...

There is no way anybody can be this cartoonishly cynical.

 

[justjohn]

Funny how people can pull a complete 180 when they were championing Charlie Hebdo for free speech a year ago.

A lot of these freedom of speech warriors don't necessarily care about freedom of speech, just the freedom to offend and spew hate against other groups with no consequences.

 

[Sane_Man]

So today we learned that everybody wants freedom of speech as long its speech they like.

This is nothing to do with freedom of speech. They can express themselves however they want but we have the right to be disgusted by it and call them out for it.

 

[Coriolanus]

God damn that lasagna punchline got me hard.


Fully understand why a lotta folk would find it offensive, but oh well, thats par for the course for pitch black humor.

 

[Audioboxer]

A lot of these freedom of speech warriors don't necessarily care about freedom of speech, just the freedom to offend and spew hate against other groups with no consequences.

I think the correction would be some care about freedom of speech as long as it is aimed at groups/organisations/religions or people they don't like/don't care enough about. When it is aimed at something that hits home, or a closely held belief, it's harder for them to then defend the right for it to exist.

One of my first posts if not my first in here was to protect and establish freedom of speech you have to, as a consequence, defend the right for things to be said you don't like. That doesn't mean you can't criticise, mock and hit back, as that is ultimately the two faced coin of freedom of speech. CH though aren't hypocritical about that, they'll receive a ton of hate, criticism and mockery every single day and accept that comes with the shit they do. Especially since the attack, which was literally at the top end of the scale of how people hit back when it is something that hits close to home for them. Except in the case of murder it is not freedom of speech, it is murder.