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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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balladofwindfishes
Member
Pyrosphere could have been the impact crater from Prime and had exactly the same layout and gimmicks, just a much, much better atmosphere.
Just replace Ridley with Meta Ridley, and his charge up attack to use Phazon.
Just replace Ridley with Meta Ridley, and his charge up attack to use Phazon.
I remember in the Brawl hype thread (those were the days) people HATED Poké Floats. I also remember that everyone hated Ice Climbers and were disappointed when they were revealed.
balladofwindfishes
Member
For Smash 4 there were people who were disappointed Marth was announced. Even more people who were disappointed for Ike.
Marth ever being cut is lol. Even if they gutted the entire roster of the game to only a Smash 64 sized roster, he'd take Ness or Jigglypuff's place.
Awakening fans were rabid. Cut Marth for Lucina was a popular thought and cutting Ike for Chrom was another. Ike got his last laugh though, as part of the reason Chrom got cut was because he was too similar to Marth and Ike, meaning Ike was planned to return since the beginning. If the entire FE roster wasn't gutted to represent their waifus, why even bother having Fire Emblem characters at all.
For Brawl, I remember people not really being into Mewtwo returning. It was a mix of "why would they cut Mewtwo" and "Mewtwo was bad in Melee." And then he got cut and suddenly he was everyone's favorite vet. Also everyone had sworn off Ness being cut as soon as Lucas' moves were shown. "Up until now" and then we find out Ness was integrated fully into story mode, meaning there really wasn't a chance he was ever getting cut from Brawl.
But then again, I assumed the only Brawl cut would be Snake and maybe Ivysaur, thinking they could easily port character from Brawl and clean them up.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Hahaha. I really dislike playing as Ice Climbers or against Ice Climbers. At first I was relieved that they didn't get in because I don't really want to deal with them for challenges.
Now I felt that there is glaring omission in the character selection and roster overall. They need to be back in Smash franchise. I hope that we wouldn't experience any major cuts in the future because it suck for people who loved thier characters. Poor Eskimo Joe.
I would love it. If PokeFloat actually got created during Smash 4, it would be very interesting to see who they would included as balloon since they would have like 6 generations to choose. (Which Pokemon trophies!
)Starphoenix
Member
Only reason I didn't include any DK tracks is because I'm holding our hope we'll get another DK stage sometime...
I had completely forgotten about the Lower Norfa/Magnoor Caverns theme. Man, that would have been perfect for the stage.
Also this: http://youtu.be/GzuTvthnrE4
Accepting that Metroid will be represented by nothing but lava until the end of time doesn't mean we have to stop whining about it.
Especially since Nintendo Land had an orchestrated arrangement of it, complete with choir - not only is it one of the more enduring themes from the Metroid series (which hasn't yet shown up at all in Smash) and a natural fit for Norfair in any form, but they had this great arrangement ready to use; which hardly anyone had heard in the game it was written for.
And that tunnel theme is definitely something that should have been remixed by now - it'd have gone really well alongside a SR388 stage in the vein of the 3DS Dreamland one (aesthetically, not mechanically).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Thread kinda died after the DLC huh
Nothing major has been announced for 3 months straight. I'm not surprised.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Which is funny, as this specific DLC gave us new hope for a huge pile of stages we all assumed were never returning. So you'd think there would be discussion on that...
So the new wave of Animal Crossing Amiibo is mostly characters that have costumes in Mario Maker. It probably doesn't mean anything, but I keep thinking about that Ice Climber costume data they was found. Not everything needs an explaination but I'm hopeful in thinking they're hiding because the Ice Climber/s could be coming back to Smash.
Honestly, I think the Sonic series has the most consistent music out of any series in the game, so I'm pretty bugged by this, too. Literally the only Smash remix the series has was Brawl's Angel Island remix; everything else is just ripped. I'm still hoping for Casino Night or Death Egg Zone stages that rectify this, but I'm not holding my breath.
Gah! There're so many good options for a Metroid stage; why do we always just get some awful lava/acid one?
I mean, you said it yourself: Stages don't get people as hype as characters. It's cool to see that stages aren't discounted because their songs are used elsewhere, but people are more upset about Molgera/the "throw in everything that makes somewhat sense, but not everything that makes complete" sense mentality behind the Mario Maker selection.
I'm still excited myself, though. It means that Pokemon Stadium, Yoshi's Story, Mario Bros., and most importantly, Fountain of Dreams, all have a chance! ... But a lack of songs like SMW Airship, Mario Paint Medley, and any Edit Mode remix in favor of 5 New Super Mario Bros. songs has me salty.
I can't wait for them to release L-Block and the Windows Logo in a bundle together! ...In all seriousness, though, Smash is the only thing keeping Ice Climber from being Urban Champion-tier, yet they're going out of their way for Popo. Nothing is confirmed, and I hope we don't get a Solo Climber, but that's interesting to note.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The costume was Popo specifically, just one Ice Climber. So if they returned, it would just be the one, if we're basing it off the Mario Maker costume.
And before "lol windows logo for smash" the batch of costumes Popo is with are further along than the Windows logo batch, implying they were cut a lot later, late enough to have some sound work done.
Balloon Fighter
Mr. Saturn
Popo
SMB2 Mario
"Pink Rabbit"
Those were found to all have sounds, meaning they were all probably fairly far along. Windows logo and friends were not, just minor references.
And before "lol windows logo for smash" the batch of costumes Popo is with are further along than the Windows logo batch, implying they were cut a lot later, late enough to have some sound work done.
Balloon Fighter
Mr. Saturn
Popo
SMB2 Mario
"Pink Rabbit"
Those were found to all have sounds, meaning they were all probably fairly far along. Windows logo and friends were not, just minor references.
Until Sakurai specifically shows us a Melee stage that wasn't in Brawl, I'm still considering them highly unlikely, given the relative work involved versus their inability to be on the 3DS (for most of the ones people want back anyway)
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Pink Rabbit is the saleswoman I take it?
None of the N64 stages were in Brawl, yet now we have four in the game. I'm sure the same amount of effort recreating them can be spent to include Melee stages missing from Brawl.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Remaking Melee stages would take a lot more work. The skyboxes of the N64 stages are just 2D images they merely painted over to improve them. For the Melee stages, they all have proper backgrounds that would require more work to recreate. The stages are simpler, with only one or two minor gimmicks, simple shapes and simple textures. Dreamland is just a disc with a few background cylinders and then a bunch of 2D sprites, including the entire skybox being nothing by a flat 2D drawing. You compare that to something like Great Bay, which has complex shapes with lots of detail, 2 NPCs, an entire scene occurring in the background, water particles and physics to worry about, and so on.
More detailed stages means more work to recreate them. Something like Fountain of Dreams has complex animation, particles, a mirror effect and a complicated background. On top of a larger expectation for a texture increase.
N64 stages also work on the 3DS. Something like Fountain of Dreams barely ran on the Gamecube, not a chance it works on the 3DS. So for more effort than the N64 stages they can sell to a smaller market? Instead of just sticking entirely to Brawl Melee stages, which are far easier to port, so it wouldn't matter if they were Wii U only. If Pirate Ship couldn't be easily ported, I am positive it wouldn't have come back as a Wii U only stage.
Yes, it's true that the N64 stages are a lot less complicated to recreate than many Melee stages, but it's not as if all Melee stages are as complex as Fountain of Dreams. Stuff like Fourside and Mushroom Kingdom II for example would be a lot more simple. I can't think of any reason those sort of stages wouldn't work on 3DS either. As long as the stage isn't too complex (which is why stuff like Fountain of Dreams and Brinstar Depths may be ruled out) they could release them on both versions, which would make the extra effort spent recreating them worth it.
Of course it's a lot easier to release Melee stages that were already in Brawl, but with Melee's popularity I'm pretty confident that they'd still make their money back recreating certain stages that didn't make the jump.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
It's a sprite from an NES game that was likely ripped and never used because people would automatically assume it was related to Smash. We're not getting Foreman Spike in Smash, are we? I wish we got the Birdo sprite from SMB2.
balladofwindfishes
Member
But why bother doing that when Pokemon Stadium, Big Blue, Green Greens and Rainbow Cruise are able to be ported with less effort and are still Melee stages they can show? Or just moving Brinstar, Corneria and Jungle Japes to the Wii U would be easy as well, even more so, as the Omegas are done for those stages already.
Mushroom Kingdom II would be easy to recreate and work on the 3DS, but are people really requesting MKII? I know people are requesting the 3DS Melee stages (all three of them), along with the four Brawl Melee stages (especially Pokemon Stadium). Why bother porting a stage from Melee "just because" because it was the easiest to recreate, when even easier and more popular ports are sitting right there.
The most requested non-Brawl Melee stages I see are Fountain of Dreams, Pokefloats and Fourside. Unfortunately, I doubt any of those three would work on the 3DS. Which means they're probably not a priority to do a lot of work on.
Also the talk yesterday about Brinstar's music reminded me how disgusting the 3DS port of it is. RIP Walking Chozo, one of the coolest background effects of Melee. 2D low res sprites all over the place for stuff that used to be 3D as well. Ugh...
Edit: lol SFV just had a reliable leak crushed today. Reminds me of last year's Smash craziness. It also makes's Ike's reveal and the naysayers look tame.
I don't want to oversell things because I might be biased, but Melee is the Smash game with the most rabid fanbase. Although Hyrule Castle was easy to make and has a following (Despite the awful tornado), I think Melee stages'd appeal to more fans' nostalgia.
But, again, I'm biased, because that would mean Fountain of Dreams, Fourside, and Pokemon Stadium would have their chances increased significantly. Or Kongo Jungle, or Poke Floats, or Kingdom II, or Peach's Castle... Literally any new Melee stage but Icicle Mountain would get me frothing in excitement.
Oh no... RIP #TeamAlex. It's like the Chorus Kids all over again...
Yeah, it's true that it's a lot less effort to port some of the remaining Melee stages that made it into Brawl... but out of the ones that haven't returned, there's not a lot to be really excited about, you know? Stuff like Fourside would get people more excited and make people want to buy them, I think. Though I guess this is pretty subjective, since I really want Mushroom Kingdom II.
Personally I don't see any reason why Fourside couldn't work on 3DS. It's not a very complicated stage unlike Pokefloats and Fountain of Dreams. Not to mention the 3DS version of it could be simplified a bit if something causes too much strain on it (the UFO? Not sure what's so taxing about it).
I'd really love if the Melee stages in the 3DS version went over to the Wii U version, since those are some of my favorite stages. Wouldn't it be great if they were free like the Duck Hunt stage in the 3DS version? While that's a bit of a long-shot, I can definitely see them making it over. On a different note, does anybody actually want Rainbow Cruise back? I can't stand scrolling stages.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
How does Zangief being in crush Alex's chances?
Nocturnowl
Member
I think the main circulating roster rumours involved the final two veteran characters being either...
Alex and Urien
or
Zangief and Dhalsim
I may be wrong but I assume this is what people are working with.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The game is confirmed to only have 16 characters at launch. The main rumour before today did not mention Zangief.
Trust nothing.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Coming from Smash, watching the SF5 roster stuff unfold is super confusing. People actually wishing long time iconic vets get removed, Capcom trashing the roster of the previous game and starting all over again and stuff like that would be really out of place in Smash.
We basically start every game assuming 100% of the previous game will return, and are disappointed when the (very rare) cuts do happen. It's not even in the equation that they'd go back to a Smash 64 style roster cutting the previous game's massive roster, including fan favorites.
We basically start every game assuming 100% of the previous game will return, and are disappointed when the (very rare) cuts do happen. It's not even in the equation that they'd go back to a Smash 64 style roster cutting the previous game's massive roster, including fan favorites.
He'd be a 4th Grappler at launch, which has a 16-man roster. We also know that 2/3 of the remaining characters are newcomers. According to the guy that leaked Alex (As well as weather effects, the roster being a hard 16, Karin & Mika, and Rashid by name months before his reveal), the final 4 were Alex, Urien, and 2 newcomers named Zen and Laura. Zen and Laura still have a chance, but odds are that, with Gief in the launch roster, Alex & Gief were planned as launch and early DLC characters, but they got swapped. Seeing how all the classic fighters we have so far are from SFII, it looks like we're getting Dhalsim, Sagat, or Akuma. Maybe Juri for popularity purposes. But 25% grapplers seems odd for a launch roster of a non-wrestling game, and it'd be weird if the only character that isn't new, from II, or from Alpha was Urien.
Back on topic... It just hit me about the music situation we were talking about earlier, where stages are missing a vital song. I know Ryu's theme already has 3 remixes in the game already, but where's the Ryu vs. Akuma remix from SFIV? And being in love with 3rd Strike's soundtrack, I'm somewhat disappointed that we didn't get Killing Moon. I mean, I know Ryu's here because of SFII & SSFIV3D, and that 3S' OST is incongruent with II's, but that song's just incredible, and would be perfect for a "Japanese Castle Rooftops" stage. Or any stage, really, because that song is hardcore.
balladofwindfishes
Member
How is Guile's theme not in Smash?
It's like Capcom literally gave Nintendo the rights to Ryu and Ken content ONLY and nothing else in the entire series could be referenced.
Which is in stark contrast to Mega Man where Capcom appears to have basically allowed anything.
It's like Capcom literally gave Nintendo the rights to Ryu and Ken content ONLY and nothing else in the entire series could be referenced.
Which is in stark contrast to Mega Man where Capcom appears to have basically allowed anything.
Guile's theme missing is easily the biggest missed opportunity in Smash. It sucks more because I love the Suzaku Castle stage a lot.
Street Fighter V was given a hard-launch roster of 16 early on, divided into 3 sections that we deduced meant "Classic," "Newcomer," and "Brought back from SF Alpha." So whereas Smash has last minute additions that don't "take slots" ala Dark Pit and Lucina, Zangief taking a spot means we only have one more classic character. And since they're avoiding redundant characters at launch (See: Ken's redesign), Zangief as a pure grappler makes Alex, as well as Mike Haggar, far less likely, at least among the early DLC characters. Especially because Birdie has a couple of grapples and Mika is a more-mobile grappler, so that's 3 grapplers overall.
Ken Bogard leaked Rashid, Laura, Zen, and the weather effects. Someone else tacked Alex and Urien onto Ken's info months later.
Characters getting cut is common in fighters. Not new to Street Fighter either since they did the same with Street Fighter 1 to 2, and 2 to 3.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
For me, I would like to see whatever happens and I would buy them in heartbeat. I'm a sucker.
Yeah, It's astonishing how difference Smash Hype threads and Street Fighter V Hype treads were. Actually, I found it very interesting because it's like Street Fighter V fans actually fight against each other to see which veterans would come back when almost most of Smash fans actually support everyone to come back to the game.
That's how huge difference the games were for veterans. Street Fighter always don't allow everyone to come back, when Smash Bros franchise tried their best with their rosters by trying to including everyone as possible within schedule.
Wait, I thought people knew that Alex and Urien came from sIlceronia website.
... Gah. This is the second time I've tied Bogard to Siliconera. I really need to get that straight...
Never mind, then; Bogard still has a perfect record, and Alex & Urien aren't the new Chrom & Chorus Kids!
MrSaturn99
Member
Lack of time is my guess. At least we got two amazing arrangements out of it.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Ahh didn't know about those limitations on the roster.
The Bankslammer
Member
i'm surprised by all the mentions of guile's theme as "the missing song" from the SF2 stage. always thought it was sorta a meme thing and had no idea people really liked it that much lol
if we're talking just SF2 music i woulda liked the title theme, zangief stage and balrog stage. also, bonus.
if we're talking just SF2 music i woulda liked the title theme, zangief stage and balrog stage. also, bonus.
balladofwindfishes
Member
We got Duck Hunt 3DS for free, but do you think they'd charge for other cross-console ports?
I imagine not full price, but maybe at 99 cents a piece? Or bundled with a costume or character maybe?
I could see buying Wolf at normal character price and getting Corneria on the Wii U for "free." Or buy the Shy Guy clothes and get Yoshi's Island Brawl (this one could throw in Yoshi's Island Melee for the 3DS costume as well). or a Diddy costume and getting Kongo Jungle for the 3DS or something like that.
Basically, they wouldn't be charging for them, but they wouldn't exactly be free either.
I imagine not full price, but maybe at 99 cents a piece? Or bundled with a costume or character maybe?
I could see buying Wolf at normal character price and getting Corneria on the Wii U for "free." Or buy the Shy Guy clothes and get Yoshi's Island Brawl (this one could throw in Yoshi's Island Melee for the 3DS costume as well). or a Diddy costume and getting Kongo Jungle for the 3DS or something like that.
Basically, they wouldn't be charging for them, but they wouldn't exactly be free either.
I can see something like that working. That way they're not given out for totally free (which I would love, but can't picture happening), but they're not entirely standalone either.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Reading Source Gaming, it seems the "there are only two more slots for characters in the files" thing was probably busted with this patch. There's only enough stage slots in the files for one more stage, and obviously we're getting more than one more stage. Since the stage slots appear meaningless, the character ones are probably meaningless as well.
With all of the fan made "rules" this update busted, along with the major shielding changes, this really feels like an important update. Maybe not in actual content, but just in the general feeling that more is coming.
I know this update reassured me that Smash DLC is planned for awhile longer. Probably summer next year is my guess.
They've now reduced the workload for stage DLC with the music change. Basically this means more Brawl stages. They've proven the internal "slots" are meaningless. They've shown they can easily port stages between versions, since they just randomly did it for free for no reason. I doubt Duck Hunt is the last, as these gestures are well received. They've made substantial balance changes to the core game, which obviously they'll want to wait awhile and see what happens. They aren't going to drastically shift around the meta, only to abandon it before the true repercussions are shown.
I'm pretty confident we'll have at least 4 more fighters, probably two ballot characters and two vets (Wolf and a Pokemon). And I can't even begin to predict stages. We like to joke that Mii hats are guaranteed every patch, but we're now looking at our third DLC in a row that had two DLC stages. Every DLC released since they started adding stage DLC has had stages. Are two stages per update the norm now? Two stages every other month for eight months is eight stages. That's a pretty healthy amount of stages, and that doesn't even include any third stage that might come (like Miiverse for example).
I'll be a happy camper if they keep the Brawl stage ports flowing to the Wii U.
With all of the fan made "rules" this update busted, along with the major shielding changes, this really feels like an important update. Maybe not in actual content, but just in the general feeling that more is coming.
I know this update reassured me that Smash DLC is planned for awhile longer. Probably summer next year is my guess.
They've now reduced the workload for stage DLC with the music change. Basically this means more Brawl stages. They've proven the internal "slots" are meaningless. They've shown they can easily port stages between versions, since they just randomly did it for free for no reason. I doubt Duck Hunt is the last, as these gestures are well received. They've made substantial balance changes to the core game, which obviously they'll want to wait awhile and see what happens. They aren't going to drastically shift around the meta, only to abandon it before the true repercussions are shown.
I'm pretty confident we'll have at least 4 more fighters, probably two ballot characters and two vets (Wolf and a Pokemon). And I can't even begin to predict stages. We like to joke that Mii hats are guaranteed every patch, but we're now looking at our third DLC in a row that had two DLC stages. Every DLC released since they started adding stage DLC has had stages. Are two stages per update the norm now? Two stages every other month for eight months is eight stages. That's a pretty healthy amount of stages, and that doesn't even include any third stage that might come (like Miiverse for example).
I'll be a happy camper if they keep the Brawl stage ports flowing to the Wii U.
For all you Doctor Mario fans out there, someone came up with a pretty cool set up for him
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
While I agree with you, I don't think there's any proof to make that assertion just yet.
Not yet they haven't. There are still two unfulfilled character slots and one unfulfilled stage slot.
balladofwindfishes
Member
That would be a rather abrupt stop in content that doesn't seem to be particularly time consuming.
How is Mega Man X's Intro Stage/Storm Eagle/Boomer Kuwanger/Zero's Theme not in Smash 4? Battle Network 1-3 main theme/MMBN2-3 Battle Theme as well? Let's not forget Zero series' boss music (Crash, Cannon Ball, Nothing Beats & Falling Down), as well as Zero 2's Opening Stage theme (Departure).
Even if we limit ourselves to just classic series, where the hell is the Megaman & Bass music? MM8? 9? 10?
TL;DR, it really sucks knowing just how much exists that didn't get capitalized on, despite how much already exists in game.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
But the music in Mega Man and Bass is poop.
Aw hell nah*. Opening Stage, Burnerman, Magicman, Dynamoman, Pirateman, King's Castle Stages, Boss Theme, Bolt Museum. All great.
*: Only exception is if you played the GBA version.
That's still an assumption on your part, though. They haven't "proven" anything yet.
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