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[AngryNapkin]

The Wii sold because motion control became a phenomenon that got people into casual gaming for a while. A new and cheaper XB1 SKU would still be an XB1, not a completely different direction for the console.

And with all the hardware in these consoles, $199 is probably the lowest the XB1 and PS4 will go, at the end of the generation.

I'm pretty sure the PS4 could hit 99.99 soon after PS5 launches and be 199.99 sometime in 2017. They are simple APUs and off the shelf parts, the PS4 was designed to plumet in build cost. Mark Cerny covered this in several interviews.

The PS4 might even hit 99.99 quicker than X1 because of their on board eDram and ancient DDR3 prices actually increasing in cost as DDR5 matures.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Is it literally 1 year of exclusivity? So the earliest rotr can be put out is in nov? If so they should delay it and find a week with no release. Like in Jan or something like they did trde

 

[Conduit]

It's becoming really apparent that Sony should have shipped more PS4s. There's gotta be a lot of disappointed people going to the store looking for a PS4 but not seeing any. At least some of those people are going to pick up Xboxes because there's no other choice.

This reminds me on PS4/Xbone launch. Lots of disappointed people because PS4 was sold out. But they didn't buy Xboxes cuz there's no other choice. They waited another PS4 stock.

 

[Mooreberg]

I guess that explains the absurd number of people swarming the clothing section at Walmart in between electronics and where they keep stuff that should be at electronics (in front of the cheese, no less). Should put Uncharted 4 is really great position.

 

[Welfare]

I'm wrong. NVM

 

[Shenmue]

Is it literally 1 year of exclusivity? So the earliest rotr can be put out is in nov? If so they should delay it and find a week with no release. Like in Jan or something like they did trde

I think at this point it really doesn't even matter. The release is so late that the game is going to bomb no matter when it releases.

Something like a 39.99 price point with all the DLC would mean a lot more for sales than trying to find some ideal time to release.

For instance if they delay to January 2017 but at $59.99 nobody is going to buy that after they've just depleted all their money buying gifts.

 

[GnawtyDog]

This reminds me on PS4/Xbone launch. Lots of disappointed people because PS4 was sold out. But they didn't buy Xboxes cuz there's no other choice. They waited another PS4 stock.

Actually many probably did. This season the type of buyer buying these things are price sensitive consumers looking to hand out gifts etc. If it becomes overly hard to find stock for a gift, you bet your savings they'll snatch the next best thing.

The informed consumer will wait....absolutely (first adopters are). The low information, casual consumer will not. If you run out of stock in these periods you'll lose some sales to comp.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

-Fallout 4
-Blops3
-AC:S
-Black Friday
-Some waiting for the PS4/PC Release
-Third Party Xbox Executive

Not sure what's hard to understand unless you're living in an igloo somewhere that miraculously knows the release date of Tomb Raider only.

Of course it was clear that TR will have a hard time, giving its release on only two platforms and because of the timing (especially with regard to Fallout 4). I just expected more 'enthusiasm' from XBOX One owners here. I mean, it's one if not the best game for this platform. Didn't MS do any proper marketing in the States? Quite sure I saw a lot of advertisement for TR on XBOX here in Germany.

I'm curious how that (and Halo 5'S underwhelming performance) will affect future 1st party releases. Sony already releases Uncharted 4 in March, out of harm's way so to speak.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Of course it was clear that TR will have a hard time, giving its release on only two platforms and because of the timing (especially with regard to Fallout 4). I just expected more 'enthusiasm' from XBOX One owners here. I mean, it's one if not the best game for this platform. Didn't MS do any proper marketing in the States? Quite sure I saw a lot of advertisement for TR on XBOX here in Germany.

I'm curious how that (and Halo 5'S underwhelming performance) will affect future 1st party releases. Sony already releases Uncharted 4 in March, out of harm's way so to speak.

What? Enthusiasm? You mean expected people to purchases RotTR out of loyalty to the Xbox brand? Sure by all accounts it's a good game, but all of the facts available should have made it plainly obvious that it was sent to die.

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

I'm guessing Microsoft's only option is an insane price drop. The ps4 us steam rolling with no real first party support and MS just released what they consider the best xbox line up ever. Could they manage a 100 dollar price drop, I doubt it. It's the only real option now. 249.99 vs a 349.99 ps4. It would seem fair if you took the power difference into consideration

 

[Nightengale]

I'm guessing Microsoft's only option is an insane price drop. The ps4 us steam rolling with no real first party support and MS just released what they consider the best xbox line up ever. Could they manage a 100 dollar price drop, I doubt it. It's the only real option now. 249.99 vs a 349.99 ps4. It would seem fair if you took the power difference into consideration

It's just marketing. Next year they'll say 2016 has the better lineup, because.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

What? Enthusiasm? You mean expected people to purchases RotTR out of loyalty to the Xbox brand?

No, just because it's one of the best games available, across all platforms.

 

[chromatic9]

Okay, okay, I got it. Tomb Raider bombed spectacularrr even compared to XBOX One sales. Still, though, hard to understand why.

Unless most went digital

 

[Bgamer90]

It's just marketing. Next year they'll say 2016 has the better lineup, because.

Their "best lineup in Xbox history" line refers to 2016 games too so yeah -- it's just marketing. They'll always hype up their game lineups each year.

 

[Wazzu]

This is great!

 

[Blanquito]

Their "best lineup in Xbox history" line refers to 2016 games too so yeah -- it's just marketing. They'll always hype up their game lineups each year.

Haha. 2016 tagline:

"The second best lineup in Xbox history"

 

[Katze mit Hut]

What? Enthusiasm? You mean expected people to purchases RotTR out of loyalty to the Xbox brand? Sure by all accounts it's a good game, but all of the facts available should have made it plainly obvious that it was sent to die.

Well, there were hundreds of thousand if not million people who bought a $500 console mainly because of this loyalty. There can´t have been a "well look, i´ve got 2 choices, one has higher specs in every regard and then theres the other one for 100$ more. What should i do?" line of thinking.

I didnt expect much from Laras new game, saleswise, but the game seems to be too good to have that low sales. My greatest fear right now is that SE blames the TR brand or the developer for the low sales and not the legendary exclusivity misstep as they should. It would be extremely sad if they stop future TR projects because of their own bad business decisions.

 

[Katze mit Hut]

Unless most went digital

Is that Saul on stage?!

 

[Rymuth]

Unless most went digital

Indeed,

 

[DeepEnigma]

Indeed,

Holy shit.

 

[serversurfer]

Oh, you really did ask this in both threads! I was reading the other thread, thinking, "Did I seriously not send that post before I left? =/" lol

Well yea that's what he is saying (vis a vis Windows 10 cross platform releases) but that has yet to happen for their biggest titles. We are going to start seeing Free to Play and smaller budget games doing cross platform releases across XB1 and W10 next year but that wasn't the case for Halo 5 despite Spencer talking cross platform support up so much in the months leading up to release. Do you really think the next Gears title is going to release day and date on PC as well?

Well, I think they'd better hope it does, at least. Phil was asked why Quantum Break and Scalebound weren't sim-shipping on PC, and he basically said they should've been, but they didn't realize the Bone wouldn't really be exclusive-viable until it was too late. Phil said he didn't feel it was fair to the teams to make their exclusive game multi-platform in the middle of development, and I agree, so kudos to him for not making them do it anyway.

Same goes for Halo 5, but more so, since it was even further in to development. I'm sure they're already porting it to W10 to try to recoup some of their development costs, and if it does well there, I've no doubt H6 will sim-ship. If it doesn't do well there, I wouldn't expect an H6 at all.

Yes, we will start seeing smaller, F2P games from MS because Nadella is keeping XBox around to assist with their mobile efforts; "small games" (read: "mobile games") is the reason XBox still exists at all. That said, Phil doesn't really have any teams geared towards mobile development; he has a handful of AAA teams. So in the long term, he's going to be building tons of mobile teams to see what sticks, and in the short term, he'll try to please his boss with his existing teams by using them to help shore up Windows proper.

So let me ask you, why would they keep Gears console-exclusive, even if it was a financially viable option? What do they gain by funneling people away from Windows and towards the console? If anything, they want to funnel users in the other direction.

 

[unknownstranger]

Of course it was clear that TR will have a hard time, giving its release on only two platforms and because of the timing (especially with regard to Fallout 4). I just expected more 'enthusiasm' from XBOX One owners here. I mean, it's one if not the best game for this platform. Didn't MS do any proper marketing in the States? Quite sure I saw a lot of advertisement for TR on XBOX here in Germany.

I'm curious how that (and Halo 5'S underwhelming performance) will affect future 1st party releases. Sony already releases Uncharted 4 in March, out of harm's way so to speak.

Once Fallout 4 marketing died down some Rise of the Tomb Raider marketing picked up for about a week. There's now a commercial with a montage of all the first party Xbox One games released this fall but I haven't seen it often.

Big first party releases will still be aiming for fall. Halo 5 sales were underwhelming more because of quality (both it and TMCC) than release date. We'll see how Quantum Break does in May to see if Microsoft tries another large first party title around that time.

 

[dcb2821]

I'm guessing Microsoft's only option is an insane price drop. The ps4 us steam rolling with no real first party support and MS just released what they consider the best xbox line up ever. Could they manage a 100 dollar price drop, I doubt it. It's the only real option now. 249.99 vs a 349.99 ps4. It would seem fair if you took the power difference into consideration

Thats if you think Microsofts only priority is to "beat" the PS4. Which I don't think it is. Sure it would be an extra bragging point but the XB1 sales are actually pretty good when comparing to their last console the 360. The Xbox division is making Microsoft a good amount of money, and that is the main goal of the company and investors. Competition is always good though, makes all companies work harder to earn our business.

 

[Conduit]

Thats if you think Microsofts only priority is to "beat" the PS4. Which I don't think it is. Sure it would be an extra bragging point but the XB1 sales are actually pretty good when comparing to their last console the 360. The Xbox division is making Microsoft a good amount of money, and that is the main goal of the company and investors. Competition is always good though, makes all companies work harder to earn our business.

???????

 

[DeepEnigma]

Thats if you think Microsofts only priority is to "beat" the PS4. Which I don't think it is. Sure it would be an extra bragging point but the XB1 sales are actually pretty good when comparing to their last console the 360. The Xbox division is making Microsoft a good amount of money, and that is the main goal of the company and investors. Competition is always good though, makes all companies work harder to earn our business.

You will be bullshitting yourself if you think that, MSFT, thinks being in second place is A-OK. Sure they like to make money, but they also want to make money and be the number one choice while doing so (which makes you more monies). Pride is another aspect that fuels the richest corporations in the world besides just dollars and cents.

People who work hard on this, so passionate do not like accepting, "second best". Regardless the profit margin.

 

[harSon]

You will be bullshitting yourself if you think that, MSFT, thinks being in second place is A-OK. Sure they like to make money, but they also want to make money and be the number one choice while doing so (which makes you more monies). Pride is another aspect that fuels the richest corporations in the world besides just dollars and cents.

People who work hard on this, so passionate do not like accepting, "second best". Regardless the profit margin.

You're bullshitting yourself if you think money isn't the end all be all end game for multi-billion dollar corporations lmao.

 

[dcb2821]

You will be bullshitting yourself if you do not think that, MSFT, thinks being in second place is A-OK. Sure they like to make money, but they also want to make money and be the number one choice while doing so. That is another aspect that fuels the richest corporations in the world besides just dollars and cents.

People who work hard on this, so passionate do not like accepting, "second best". Regardless the profit margin.

Yeah I agree they would love to be #1, but unless they sell at a huge loss per unit and cut the price by a lot, its gonna be an uphill battle for that spot....so I think their focus is to at least keep making money off the xb1. Its a marathon, so I guess we will see how it all plays out and what their strategy is.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

You're bullshitting yourself if you think money isn't the end all be all end game for multi-billion dollar corporations lmao.

Of course money is the end game but there are many aspect to that ROI for eg .
Question is does MS even make that much money on X1 .

 

[superbeau]

Indeed,

Dead

 

[bobbytkc]

You will be bullshitting yourself if you think that, MSFT, thinks being in second place is A-OK. Sure they like to make money, but they also want to make money and be the number one choice while doing so (which makes you more monies). Pride is another aspect that fuels the richest corporations in the world besides just dollars and cents.

People who work hard on this, so passionate do not like accepting, "second best". Regardless the profit margin.

They can take that pride to make the next system even better, than to continue a losing proposition this gen.

 

[Cyborg]

I'm back (was banned) missed youd guys.

What is this? What did Sony do this time?

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I'm back (was banned) missed youd guys.

What is this? What did Sony do this time?

Sell many consoles to the unwashed, gravy coated masses

 

[unknownstranger]

Of course money is the end game but there are many aspect to that ROI for eg .
Question is does MS even make that much money on X1 .

By now they should be profiting or near profiting from $349 Xbox One's with a game. I doubt by enough to lower the price again though.

 

[Mooreberg]

So let me ask you, why would they keep Gears console-exclusive, even if it was a financially viable option? What do they gain by funneling people away from Windows and towards the console? If anything, they want to funnel users in the other direction.

I think this has been fairly obvious for ages now: Windows is the default OS for the vast majority of people using a desktop or laptop. Linux and Mac OSX have never actually made significant inroads in terms of market share. Unless/until performance on something like Steam OS really increases, they have the default platform for enthusiast PC gamers as well. They have nothing to lose by keeping big first party titles off of the PC (people are playing games on Windows, and GFWL was taken out back behind the shed a while ago), and much to gain by getting to buy an Xbox. They made a lot of money in royalties on games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto on Xbox 360. Money that would not have been made if people had to keep their PC's up to date to play those games. Given the general slowdown in first party output, it seems like third party royalties, along with Xbox Live revenue, has been a primary driver for that division of the company.

What funnels people away from using Windows more is mobile devices, which Microsoft did a spectacularly poor job of readying themselves for. People using Google Docs and Pages/Numbers/Keynote is more of a threat to their gravy train than PlayStation ever was, or ever could be.

Lastly, I have never heard of this tracking company before in any holiday sales related threads. Are they actually a good indicator of what to expect for NPD results? Last year pretty much went as expected with how aggressive some of the bundling was. This year actually seems a bit less impressive in that respect, given the consoles have now been on the market twice as long. Even accessory pricing for things like extra controllers was better last year. But this year has the marquee titles that were missing last fall to make up for it.

 

[Rymuth]

I'm back (was banned) missed youd guys.

What is this? What did Sony do this time?

Welcome back, Cyborg. You've been missed.

Sony got complacent and/or arrogant and/or falling behind Xbox 360. Take your pick.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I think this has been fairly obvious for ages now: Windows is the default OS for the vast majority of people using a desktop or laptop. Linux and Mac OSX have never actually made significant inroads in terms of market share. Unless/until performance on something like Steam OS really increases, they have the default platform for enthusiast PC gamers as well. They have nothing to lose by keeping big first party titles off of the PC (people are playing games on Windows, and GFWL was taken out back behind the shed a while ago), and much to gain by getting to buy an Xbox. They made a lot of money in royalties on games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto on Xbox 360. Money that would not have been made if people had to keep their PC's up to date to play those games. Given the general slowdown in first party output, it seems like third party royalties, along with Xbox Live revenue, has been a primary driver for that division of the company.

What funnels people away from using Windows more is mobile devices, which Microsoft did a spectacularly poor job of readying themselves for. People using Google Docs and Pages/Numbers/Keynote is more of a threat to their gravy train than PlayStation ever was, or ever could be.

Lastly, I have never heard of this tracking company before in any holiday sales related threads. Are they actually a good indicator of what to expect for NPD results? Last year pretty much went as expected with how aggressive some of the bundling was. This year actually seems a bit less impressive in that respect, given the consoles have now been on the market twice as long. Even accessory pricing for things like extra controllers was better last year. But this year has the marquee titles that were missing last fall to make up for it.

10 years ago that first sentence would be true, but I'm pretty sure that Macs and tables have take away a lot of that market share.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You're bullshitting yourself if you think money isn't the end all be all end game for multi-billion dollar corporations lmao.

Where did I say it wasn't? Da fuq?

Yeah I agree they would love to be #1, but unless they sell at a huge loss per unit and cut the price by a lot, its gonna be an uphill battle for that spot....so I think their focus is to at least keep making money off the xb1. Its a marathon, so I guess we will see how it all plays out and what their strategy is.

Oh I agree. But my comment was that they are not "a-ok" with it. Knowing MSFT's, and any huge corporations track record, it does sting, and the drive is still there, even if subdued a little.

They can take that pride to make the next system even better, than to continue a losing proposition this gen.

Hopefully that is what it transpires into.

 

[sono]

Is this a Gaf meme or something?

If anything is doing well: "xyz is a beast, or entering beast mode".

Likely derivered from games in which the player character (temporarily) powers up for a killing rampage.

 

[thekiddfran]

That gap is getting out of hand.

I think next year we are in for an even bigger gap with Sony's big hitters launching.

Uncharted 4, Horzion, GT Sport and PS VR.

Holy shit.

 

[Mooreberg]

10 years ago that first sentence would be true, but I'm pretty sure that Macs and tables have take away a lot of that market share.

That is why I specified desktops and laptops. iOs and Android are mobile operating systems. Even when they are running on 12.9" tablets. The software support is completely different. They can, have, and will continue to eat into desktop and laptop usage, but the gaming software crossover is not the same as it is between PC and the type of console titles that people want to see Microsoft put on PC. They've got a lot more to lose with Xbox than they do with Windows Phone, as a point of comparison.

 

[DieH@rd]

I think next year we are in for an even bigger gap with Sony's big hitters launching.

Uncharted 4, Horzion, GT Sport and PS VR.

Holy shit.

And Last Guardian, Ratchet, Witness, No Man's Sky, Persona 5, Gravity Rush remake/2, Nier Automata, new Valkyria, Yakuza 6 and many more... including multiplatform games that will attract bigger crowds on PS4 platform [FF15 for example].

 

[EventHorizon]

Thats if you think Microsofts only priority is to "beat" the PS4. Which I don't think it is. Sure it would be an extra bragging point but the XB1 sales are actually pretty good when comparing to their last console the 360. The Xbox division is making Microsoft a good amount of money, and that is the main goal of the company and investors. Competition is always good though, makes all companies work harder to earn our business.

The problem with settling with second place is that unless you've carved out a niche market for yourself, which Xbox hasn't done, it's an unstable position to be in. It'll create a feedback loop causing an ever increasing weakening of the console. We are already seeing the sales gap grow between XB1 and PS4. That gap is already big enough to prevent any more major XB1 exclusives. At some point it will grow so big that targeting only the PS4 will make financial sense for more and more games. As more and more potential gamers realize this, they'll choose the PS4 over the XB1 and the cycle will start anew. If MS doesn't think their console is worthy of first place then why should anybody else?

They have nothing to lose by keeping big first party titles off of the PC (people are playing games on Windows, and GFWL was taken out back behind the shed a while ago), and much to gain by getting to buy an Xbox.

...

What funnels people away from using Windows more is mobile devices, which Microsoft did a spectacularly poor job of readying themselves for. People using Google Docs and Pages/Numbers/Keynote is more of a threat to their gravy train than PlayStation ever was, or ever could be.

Microsoft has the extra sales for their games that they'd lose if they don't release on PC. They'd also start to have a problem keeping up an acceptable online population if PS4 games begin to vastly outsell their XB1 counterparts. The FPS audience that the Xbox has cultivated will jump en-mass to the PS4.

MS could use their OS monopoly as they always have by propping up the Xbox console. MS could offer up cross buy deals to get both the XB1 and PC versions of a game, and could implement account sharing features to port gaming progress across both versions of the game. For games that don't give an advantage to keyboard and mouse users MS could combine online populations to prop up their numbers.

Going the other way you are right that Windows is feeling competition from mobile platforms. Offering up more gaming opportunities on Windows gives people more reasons to be tied to their desktop where Microsoft is dominant instead of increasingly spending time on mobiles where they are not.

 

[LeonSPBR]

Indeed,

Dead

 

[Unknown One]

If Xbone wasn't close in the U.S and U.K, then the Xbone would be completely obliterated by the PS4. Like Wii-U kind of obliterated.

 

[biglittleps]

If Xbone wasn't close in the U.S and U.K, then the Xbone would be completely obliterated by the PS4. Like Wii-U kind of obliterated.

MS did great job with aggressive price and bundles in US and UK, so they can have some market share and stay relevant. I think MS should make Xbox as Windows machine which can run Dual OS with their own storefront like Steam allowing every future PC game to be available (Xbox OS for Gaming and Windows OS for PC) with a fixed minimum hardware that can be upgraded by users and tweak their OS, Tools and drivers for developers to optimize their games. This way they can have a console and also control PC ecosystem for Apps/games.

 

[EventHorizon]

Yes, we will start seeing smaller, F2P games from MS because Nadella is keeping XBox around to assist with their mobile efforts; "small games" (read: "mobile games") is the reason XBox still exists at all. That said, Phil doesn't really have any teams geared towards mobile development; he has a handful of AAA teams. So in the long term, he's going to be building tons of mobile teams to see what sticks, and in the short term, he'll try to please his boss with his existing teams by using them to help shore up Windows proper.

I don't see how Xbox helps Microsoft with mobile games. The Xbox brand is basically synonymous with hardcore performance driven games while mobile is the exact opposite of that. Xbox would have to rise like a phoenix from an implosion of its own making if it tried to switch to a more casual market. The XB1 "TV, TV, TV" launch fiasco proved this.

The only way I could see that working would be if Microsoft came out with a $149-$199 Xbox Arcade Media Box that was only meant to play Universal App arcade titles that could also be played on MS mobile devices. If MS wants to go after the casual crowd then it needs hardware priced in the casual crowd's range.

 

[thekiddfran]

And Last Guardian, Ratchet, Witness, No Man's Sky, Persona 5, Gravity Rush remake/2, Nier Automata, new Valkyria, Yakuza 6 and many more... including multiplatform games that will attract bigger crowds on PS4 platform [FF15 for example].

 

[RexNovis]

Oh, you really did ask this in both threads! I was reading the other thread, thinking, "Did I seriously not send that post before I left? =/" lol

Heh yea I did. I asked in the predictions thread then this thread also starred tallinh about Tomb Raider so I thought I'd ask here as well since it was relevant to the current ongoing discussion. Sorry if it caused confusion.

Well, I think they'd better hope it does, at least. Phil was asked why Quantum Break and Scalebound weren't sim-shipping on PC, and he basically said they should've been, but they didn't realize the Bone wouldn't really be exclusive-viable until it was too late. Phil said he didn't feel it was fair to the teams to make their exclusive game multi-platform in the middle of development, and I agree, so kudos to him for not making them do it anyway.

Same goes for Halo 5, but more so, since it was even further in to development. I'm sure they're already porting it to W10 to try to recoup some of their development costs, and if it does well there, I've no doubt H6 will sim-ship. If it doesn't do well there, I wouldn't expect an H6 at all.

Yes, we will start seeing smaller, F2P games from MS because Nadella is keeping XBox around to assist with their mobile efforts; "small games" (read: "mobile games") is the reason XBox still exists at all. That said, Phil doesn't really have any teams geared towards mobile development; he has a handful of AAA teams. So in the long term, he's going to be building tons of mobile teams to see what sticks, and in the short term, he'll try to please his boss with his existing teams by using them to help shore up Windows proper.

So let me ask you, why would they keep Gears console-exclusive, even if it was a financially viable option? What do they gain by funneling people away from Windows and towards the console? If anything, they want to funnel users in the other direction.

Basically I feel like simultaneous releases with PC would severely diminish the perceived value of their console platform leading to a sharp decline in sales. Especially if this is fine with their biggest IPs. They've also given PC gamers this same story many times and have never actually followed through with it so it makes sense to be a bit skeptical that they truly chanted their tune this time.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

No, just because it's one of the best games available, across all platforms.

The audience just isn't there. Yes, the game seems to be great but that doesn't mean it aligns with the desires of the userbase. Titanfall, Halo, Gears, CoD, Destiny, Battlefront, etc... are the type of games X1 users are more inclined to play.

 

[immortal-joe]

And Last Guardian, Ratchet, Witness, No Man's Sky, Persona 5, Gravity Rush remake/2, Nier Automata, new Valkyria, Yakuza 6 and many more... including multiplatform games that will attract bigger crowds on PS4 platform [FF15 for example].

That was uncalled for man. Shut down your computer then go to the corner and think about what you did.