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Uncharted 4: Nadine And Sully Trailer
- Thread starter Kralamoonard
- Start date
Thank you.
They couldn't do it before because cut scenes were pre-rendered, now that it's real time they can add it.
Though I'm sure choices will only revolve around different dialogues most of the time without any real consequences, like with Telltale, they would not let you influence their story in a significant way.
Bullshit! That can't be true. Your eyes are lying to you. Anyone who isn't blind can see that Star Citizen is clearly better looking.
This isn't meant as an insult, but just to show how annoying it is to have differing opinions for some people
comshoplesce
Member
Yea honestly I feel like U4's multi looks better, compared to the campaign, than previous ND games, they just looked terrible, U4's multi still looks pretty solid in comparison and it's running at twice the framerate.
So I think this time it's a nice improvement for ND, if we look at their MP mode in past games.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
The problem with PC at this point isn't the argument of power it's clearly so much more powerful than any console. The problem is the days of the most proficient devs working exclusively on it is over. No more Crytek, Epic or anyone that really has the resources to make a game that eclipses consoles. Instead the best devs in the industry work on consoles with ND at the absolute top. You will always get better results of course with 3rd party but even then it's more of a High Settings vs Ultra and not the night and day difference it used to be.
The reason it's such a point of contention for PC users is because the investment is just as high as its ever been but they are no longer getting the payoff they used to. I remember buying an insanely overpriced alienware(I didn't know better) for Doom 3 and it feeling like I just played a game a decade ahead of consoles. Same for when I played Crysis.
Those days are long gone
Yeah old UC mp was pretty bad looking
The reason it's such a point of contention for PC users is because the investment is just as high as its ever been but they are no longer getting the payoff they used to. I remember buying an insanely overpriced alienware(I didn't know better) for Doom 3 and it feeling like I just played a game a decade ahead of consoles. Same for when I played Crysis.
Those days are long gone
Yeah old UC mp was pretty bad looking
PC fanboys in here still trying to negate that a console game can look better than most of what's available today on PC because developers talent and artstyle. When they can't justify this game having one of the best face modelling/animation ever seen, they will go for the good old "but 4k and 240fps", since apparently comparing a 1200$ to a 300$ machine is a logic thing to do.
I wonder what they think of things like Wind Waker or Okami looking timelessly fantastic when alledged graphical showcases of not too many years ago like Witcher 2 or Metro 2033 looking mediocre and severely outdated compared to new games just a few years after release. How many "realistic" MMO games that released after Wow look as good as that one today? None, they all look awful. Ultra hyper HD textures, 8k resolutions and 560fps don't make games look "better" than others. You might say they objectively have better IQ, but that's nothing but -indeed- brute force their way into -not- better graphics.
As someone who plays most of the time on PC and barely plays a console anymore, these kind of fanboys are an embarrassment for the whole PC community.
I feel the same way, that guy doesn't look like Sully. It's borderline creepy, as if it was an imposter or something. Elena looks like the same person though and her model looks fantastic.
I wonder what they think of things like Wind Waker or Okami looking timelessly fantastic when alledged graphical showcases of not too many years ago like Witcher 2 or Metro 2033 looking mediocre and severely outdated compared to new games just a few years after release. How many "realistic" MMO games that released after Wow look as good as that one today? None, they all look awful. Ultra hyper HD textures, 8k resolutions and 560fps don't make games look "better" than others. You might say they objectively have better IQ, but that's nothing but -indeed- brute force their way into -not- better graphics.
As someone who plays most of the time on PC and barely plays a console anymore, these kind of fanboys are an embarrassment for the whole PC community.
Drake is an okay next-gen reimagining, but Sully looks completely different, as does Elena. I'm kinda pissed about that to be honest.
The artists clearly wanted to make them look less cartoony, but I feel like they ditched a bunch of similarities in the process. I also wonder how much facial capture has forced them to change the character models.
I feel the same way, that guy doesn't look like Sully. It's borderline creepy, as if it was an imposter or something. Elena looks like the same person though and her model looks fantastic.
comshoplesce
Member
at 20:45 NEIL mentioned NEOGAF 
Weird, don't know how you can call him boring, he seems like trouble, dangerous and reckless, but boring is the last word I would use to describe him.
That's not what dialogue choices will be used for. Do not expect significantly branching story paths.
The dialogue choices are one of the least important things revealed during the trailer. It's most likely just there to keep people engaged for cutscenes.
PC is my main platform of choice, sure, but I have and play all the consoles. I'm just a 'gamer'.
My inflammatory statement was more in response to his condescending "There it is!" bs he kept spouting.
So yeah, people can have opinions, and those opinions can make no sense to me, and vice-versa.
If that's what he's meaning, then I agree with him. It's seemed to me like he's meaning UC4 is actually the better looking game due to SC being brute forced or some bs, and that as a reason makes no sense whatsoever.
I am just looking at it from a purely technical/visual standpoint. A console being able to run a game that looks like Uncharted 4 is impressive, but visually it's not as impressive as the better looking game running on a $1,500 platform to me.
Saying anyone who thinks Star Citizen isn't the better looking game is blind doesn't sound like you think people are free to have opinions to me.
lukeskymac
Member
There are times where I honestly believe it does look better - but those are the realtime cutscenes, which have a smaller scope and allow ND to throw the entire system at small, detailed shots, which is why I dismissed the MP comparisons when they happened.
The main point is that ND does more with what they have, though.
Example: Take the Gary Oldman trailer and compare his model and his animation to Drake's in the PSX story trailer. No one's changing my mind that in those circumstances, Drake looks better than the Admiral.
Muinaiset said:
Read. The condescending remark from him provoked a hostile remark from me. I have clarified that people can think whatever they want. That's it.
Vire
Member
If Naughty Dog had hardware that costs literally four times as much as what they are working on now, they would smash whatever the hell Star Citizen is doing to smithereens and back.
The fact that they have even achieved something that is comparable in its current state is impressive beyond words.
The fact that they have even achieved something that is comparable in its current state is impressive beyond words.
That transition had me like
This.
Some gifs.
If they're slowing down the page I will link them on request.
That sure as hell looks like a transition to gameplay. Look how Nate's stance is in the last frames.
But doesn't matter, thread is now about SC gfx...
U4 looks incredible, there is no doubt about that. But why people think it will be best looking game next year?
Do they not remember situation from past gens when higher end multiplatform games were speced on PCs and downscaled to consoles? Because its exactly what is happening today and will continue even further next year.
I mean, just compare any past gen high end multiplatfrom title on PC's on ultra settings with console exclusives that were remastered. The difference is quite substantial. The whole comments about Paragon trailer being CGI just proves it even further.
And just to add Star Citizen as a comparison, so people would really get what CIG is aiming at with that game. Star Citizen is not in a situation like Crysis 3 was on past gens, as title done on PCs, but with some assets, scope and tech limitation designed around past-gen platforms. It is a title that goes beyond capabilities of current gen consoles, so its like high end mid-gen next-gen title done few years earlier.
Do they not remember situation from past gens when higher end multiplatform games were speced on PCs and downscaled to consoles? Because its exactly what is happening today and will continue even further next year.
I mean, just compare any past gen high end multiplatfrom title on PC's on ultra settings with console exclusives that were remastered. The difference is quite substantial. The whole comments about Paragon trailer being CGI just proves it even further.
And just to add Star Citizen as a comparison, so people would really get what CIG is aiming at with that game. Star Citizen is not in a situation like Crysis 3 was on past gens, as title done on PCs, but with some assets, scope and tech limitation designed around past-gen platforms. It is a title that goes beyond capabilities of current gen consoles, so its like high end mid-gen next-gen title done few years earlier.
That's the difference to me though, that trailer is how Star Citizen actually looks in gameplay and to me actual gameplay is what really matters. From what I've seen Uncharted 4's gameplay does not look as good as its cutscenes. What Naughty Dog has done with Uncharted 4 is awesome, I don't disagree.
I'm not bashing Uncharted, I'm getting the game day one, I just disagree with the SC comparisons. SC is on another level with everything it's doing.
Dictator93
Member
You saw a game's unfinished multiplayer sandbox mmo component and compared it with single player directed cutscene and found one looks "just as good if not slightly better."
I for one am shocked. Come on man, you know better than that.
Beyond speaking to your frankly inane points aobut "brute forcing" and star citizen not using polygons unwisely (which is absurd when one follows their development).
So you use an example of the first time they showed off a single player character model? Why not use their latest showing where their tech has more matured? Why not point out actual points in a side by side comparison.
I am so sorry to start talking in this thread about this, but my brain hurts from some of the stuff being posted here.
Those days are not long gone though. That is exactly what Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are.... It is building its technology and game design around hardware that scarcely exists.
Like I said, I am sorry that it has come to this. But people saying inane things cannot be defended. I am not here to say "lolol this looks bad", rather to try and end this absolutely silly narrative that "PC games are all hardware and the devs are shit". Clearly people know that devs who worked at places like naughty dog, ready at dawn, sony santa monica, crytek, and id are NOW working at CIG, right?
icecold1983
Member
i think we have quite some time before we are there wrt multiplatform titles. id say if star citizen launches next year and doesnt look better than U4, nothing else that year will. also, outside of crysis 3, im not sure its so cut and dry when comparing to remastered ps360 titles.
lukeskymac
Member
Why did they make a trailer out of it in the first place then? I'm not going to argue with someone who's denying they're throwing polygons at stuff because they can when just a few weeks ago you talked about this with Durante. "Decadence" was the word he used, I believe.
Now who's being inane?
DemonCleaner
Member
i hope you're not saying ND should wrap the game in a bland story layer with horrendous dialog ala TR to better fit the action parts. pretty sure you're not saying that. but despite you're eloquent phrasing, that could be read.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah sorry Dictator I think your the most knowledgeable guy on the forums when it comes to this stuff but I also know you have a bit of a bias which is fine. SC looks excellent but it isn't even close to being the leap PC games used to get with Epic and Crytek and come on man you know whatever talent you have hired doesn't mean anything until the final product is out. I'm not saying SC won't be the graphical king I'm just saying at this point for me UC is better
Dictator93
Member
It appears "decadent" perhaps in comparison to console ports, but it isn't a console port. It is literally the polygon budget you can allow by having better hardware. That is the whole point of having better hardware though. Do you want them to NOT use it or something? Do you think console devs do not limit and plan their polygon budgets around their hardware?
And they made the bishop trailer, in spite of it having rough edges (lighting, camera work, and clothing) because they constantly show off their technology as it evolves: it is open development. They have done it with every piece of tech they developed so far and it happens to be one of them.
You can see it iterrate as it devs going from something like this in 2013, to this in 2015:
What else are you trying to get at by saying "brute forced"? Seriously? That they lack talent and they rely all on their hardware? That they 'misallocate' that hardware because they are incompetent and other devs would do a better job?
Thank you for the compliment (and I guess for the other not-so-compliment), but beyond saying things like " SC looks excellent but it isn't even close to being the leap PC games used to get with Epic and Crytek ", why not throw in some comparisons or examples of what you mean? Describe it in detail.
This discussion would be benefited by that.
It is not about crowning some metaphorical "graphics" king. I am not here to debate what looks better, rather to combat styles of posting that drive me up the wall. Comparing an MP sandbox MMO to a single player directed cutscene should send red flags up any- and everywhere. If you do compare, you should do it correctly.
lukeskymac
Member
They can use they polygon budget as they please. But it's very disingenuous to have a discussion around character models with arguments like "this is obviously better because polygons" and argue that because they're based on an objective fact they have more weight than the inherently subjective arguments about art direction. Which is what happened in that thread.
Surely there's a difference between quick developer updates and a full-fledged story trailer?
I'm not going to bother with this anymore if all you're going to do is keep framing this as a dichotomy when it's not.
SolidSnakex
Member
It's that Max Payne 3 transition
This is particularly big for ND because of how they like to play around with gameplay that looks like cutscenes. The type of transitions they can do now should be amazing since they don't have to cut to a black screen for the gameplay to start.
What the balls is going on here?
What do you guys think you achieve by making these comparisons? Some temporary relief that your side is better than the other?
Yea Naughty Dog are talented, but they cut corners (like 30 fps) just like other devs working with a $400 system, they are just a lot better at it than others. And the whole point of Star Citizen is they don't have to cut corners, the constraint just isn't there.
Do you think the people at Naughty Dog or Cloud Imperium worked hard just to brag that they are better than the other? No, they worked hard to achieve their own vision and make the best game they could make.
What do you guys think you achieve by making these comparisons? Some temporary relief that your side is better than the other?
Yea Naughty Dog are talented, but they cut corners (like 30 fps) just like other devs working with a $400 system, they are just a lot better at it than others. And the whole point of Star Citizen is they don't have to cut corners, the constraint just isn't there.
Do you think the people at Naughty Dog or Cloud Imperium worked hard just to brag that they are better than the other? No, they worked hard to achieve their own vision and make the best game they could make.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I hear if you say "Star Citizen" 3 times in a mirror, Dictator93 will show up to tell you why it looks so much better than anything else
Primethius
Banned
Some gifs.
If they're slowing down the page I will link them on request.
My god, that transition looks fantastic.
Dictator93
Member
That would be derek smart, and he would tell you why the mirror, you, and the game don't exist.
But seriously, I have not and will not say anything to the effect of why it "looks so much better" in this thread.
I am sorry that that discussion miffed you and others. But beyond the technical standards and phrasing, how else do we go about talking about these things? Should we just line up screenshots next to eachother and ask? This is a serious question and not rhetorical.
TBH, in the extremely jank filled and overly-honest presentations CIG does for its backers, not really. There is a reason why they immediately mentioned the things they are still working on in the presentation in october at CitizenCon (i.e. an internal, for backers-only event where they showed it off). Then they mentioned the things they had worked on since showing off bishop when they showed off mark hamill's character 2 weeks ago. Heck, they even mentioned things they are working on technologically for characters post-showing off hamill's character (tear production for eyes, hair, and apparently even more detailed facial textures).
Fine I will not assume your framing device, sorry for assuming as such. Please then tell me then why you use the words "brute force", why you apparently negatively connotate it, and why you presumably hold a different perspective of other developer's work (i.e. that other developers art and technology are not brute forced)? A game using more polygons on a more powerful platform is not "brute forcing": it seems like something any and every dev that wants a pretty game would do.
Yeah but does Star Citizen have Nadine's hair? Didn't think so.
Uncharted 4 - 1
Star Citizen - 0
Kralamoonard
Member
Ok guys, regardless of what has already been said, can we stop the SC vs Uncharted debate altogether, and rather focus on the footage shown instead? Feel free to make another thread if that is what you want to discuss. Thanks
Seriously, let's just stop this pointless debate. This all started because opinions can't be taken as opinions even when they were never stated as facts. Let's just agree to disagree when we can't come to a conclusion on which game looks better.Ok guys, regardless of what has already been said, can we stop the SC vs Uncharted debate altogether, and rather focus on the footage shown instead? Feel free to make another thread if that is what you want to discuss. Thanks
The point is that it doesn't even matter. If SC is better then the world keeps spinning in the exact same way as if U4 was better.
It's so goddamn petty. "Oh, look, this banana is sweeter than that orange." Is that going to stop you from eating oranges?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
On "shitty mobile" CPUs and "old ass" GPU tech no doubt.
I could only imagine the scenario you mentioned. Yikes.
Exactly. We're all free to think which game looks better. This debate started when someone came in here and said "thinking Uncharted 4 will be close to Star Citizen is a bit silly".
Dictator93
Member
Agreed.Ok guys, regardless of what has already been said, can we stop the SC vs Uncharted debate altogether, and rather focus on the footage shown instead? Feel free to make another thread if that is what you want to discuss. Thanks
I do not want to be part of such a debate in this thread.
If someone wants to make another thread I am all for it, but it would require a completely different rigor of posting more akin to that of a DF thread. No non-sese baby.
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread partially into a certain direction.
Acquiescence
Member
Boggles my mind how good looking this game is. It'll be the high-water mark of graphical fidelity, at least until the next ND game, which will somehow manage to look even better.
And yeah, you've got to love that seamless transition into gameplay.
And yeah, you've got to love that seamless transition into gameplay.
To me it looks like he just lost a bunch of weight and aged.Drake is an okay next-gen reimagining, but Sully looks completely different, as does Elena. I'm kinda pissed about that to be honest.
The artists clearly wanted to make them look less cartoony, but I feel like they ditched a bunch of similarities in the process. I also wonder how much facial capture has forced them to change the character models.
Seriously, I do not want such a debate as well. It usually ends up being nothing more than fanboy duel. I just wanted to say in this thread that I find it ridiculous that opinions cannot be accepted as such by some and that "if you disagree, you're delusional" crap. Also, if it helps, I don't think you had any negative intentions posting in this thread.
lol, holy crap, you really took my one post, which was a response to one condescending person in particular, of many in this thread way too seriously. Calm yourself.
Drake is an okay next-gen reimagining, but Sully looks completely different, as does Elena. I'm kinda pissed about that to be honest.
The artists clearly wanted to make them look less cartoony, but I feel like they ditched a bunch of similarities in the process. I also wonder how much facial capture has forced them to change the character models.
He doesn't look different.
None of them do, they just got a realism bump in their redesign.
Really annoying when GAF goes paranoid about this stuff. "It's like a completely different character! They look nothing alike!" Like, no, it's not that drastic, and Sully is clearly showing more age.
Uncharted shits on them in the animation department so they win
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