Apologies to Dalek who actually had the best thread title idea that we never used and that was before we knew any plot details, then again who am I to deny Psychbat and Coriolanus?
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Marvels Secret Wars by Hickman & Ribic |OT| Everything ends... Everything begins
- Thread starter Mudcrab
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Apologies to Dalek who actually had the best thread title idea that we never used and that was before we knew any plot details, then again who am I to deny Psychbat and Coriolanus?
The Silver
Member
Incursions still happened, it's the whole impetus behind squadron supreme going nuts and killing marvel's main character Namor.
Nihilus from Kotor 2 vibes.
Lol my apologies for legit posting like twice and then leaving until the event is over. I am fashionably late.
MHWilliams
Member
Squadron Supreme is super weird, because they're the originals from their various worlds, but there's been no explanation how they survived the reboot. But as far as Prime is concerned, the incursions seemingly didn't happen. They existed in 616 and happened, but they are not tangible to Prime. The first would've happened when T'Challa launched the rocket. It didn't, because there was nothing to incur.
When you think about it it's actually very fitting considering what happens at the beginning and end of Secret Wars.
Over 20 years of reading Marvel comics has taught me that writers following up an even quickly ignore nitty gritty details and just do whatever the hell they want for the most part. Marvel has been pretty lax on continuity stuff in favour of creator freedom for about 15 years now.
The Hickman books are logical within themselves. Outside of that, trying to fit together the pieces will just drive you crazy. Especially when you have guys like Bendis who don't give two shits.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
The chronology of the Cap aging stuff didn't work out at all if I remember right.
In Avengers? I think they just resorted to pre-8ML being before the aging story and 8ML obviously being after that.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Could be wrong, but I think Tony and Steve start fighting while Steve is still young. Then in AXIS they're casually on the same team while Steve has been aged.
The Silver
Member
Maria Hill in capt murica also mentioned the "recent incursion" crisis.
Unless everyone has two different memories of 616 earth and prime earth that writers are picking and choosing for each character to remember I'm going to assume they happened down the line and got stopped somehow.
Real answer to all this is that writers probably didn't care to look to how Hickman resolved it and are just doing what they want.
MHWilliams
Member
Pretty much. Or those in the know, like BP, told everyone else what happened.
Here's the preview pages from New Avengers #1 that show the same conversation you see in Secret Wars #9.
If the incursions did happen, they happened differently this time.
1. *shrug*
2. That seemed to be the point of the end pages with BP. Also, Iron Man and Cap aren't dead.
3. Yep. *more shrug*
googleplex
Member
So basically Doom Fans got what they've always wanted in the end.
This entire event wasn't that great. And Miles entire motivation for being spider-man has been completely thrown out. And just erasing the Ultimate Universe seems like a waste.
The pretty Boy Doom being a good guy, and an Evil Reed bad guy in the main universe.
This entire event wasn't that great. And Miles entire motivation for being spider-man has been completely thrown out. And just erasing the Ultimate Universe seems like a waste.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I agree. Considering all the moving parts, the grand scope, the number of titles he wrote the story across, and the general issues that any big 2 writer has to deal with, this was an incredible success.
Delays aside, Time Runs Out/Secret Wars is my new favorite comic book event alongside 52.
Yup
Doom admitting that he failed as a god and that Reed would have done a better job in his place while Reed Richards remakes the universe with his family to prove
but there are still other universes besides Prime Earth
and the incursions still happened in some manner
Remembrance
Member
"It was the spark that stared the fire--a legend that grew in the telling."
It wouldn't be nearly so bad if he didn't keep using that line, as though promising something so much grander. It turned out to be a Bad End that nobody will talk about in a year.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
If we never got a Fantastic Four story ever again, this is the best ending they could've gotten. Considering Hickman and Brevoort refer to it as "the last FF story", it's very fitting.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Yikes, what a mess this event was. Solid gold concept for a great fantastic four story gets turned into the BIG EVENT TO END ALL EVENTS THAT WILL REDEFINE MARVEL COMICS FOREVER, cast gets bloated, pacing suffers as a result, leading into basically every side character getting unceremoniously forgotten about in the final issues to focus on the fantastic four.
This could have been amazing if the book spent time focusing on the reeds and doom, without all the hundred tie ins, random digressions about unrelated marvel characters, and sudden happenings out of nowhere. Still better than a lot of events because it has a good idea at its core, but its missed potential hurts.
This could have been amazing if the book spent time focusing on the reeds and doom, without all the hundred tie ins, random digressions about unrelated marvel characters, and sudden happenings out of nowhere. Still better than a lot of events because it has a good idea at its core, but its missed potential hurts.
Would we even notice if the tie-ins didn't happen in regards to the main story since 90% of them never referenced the events of the book proper?
I liked a lot of the pieces Hickman did in Avengers, but yeah it just never felt like a cohesive thing that was a worthwhile arc on its own. There was so much mythology hyping from the start of Avengers - about Steve and Tony, and about the legend that grew in the telling, about various opinions as to what "started" this -event-, Hyperion, the Last White Event, the Invasion, etc. And it was ALL pointless. All the new characters he introduced amounted to nothing, Infinity amounted to nothing. The story is New Avengers, the Incursions, and Secret War. Avengers was one huge jumble of ideas for "cool stories" which he tried to dress up as something important. So yeah, I think that makes it extra disappointing. You're right in comparing it with the tail end of his FF run, but in the FF run it worked because it was just a bunch of loosely connected epilogue stories, and it wasn't hyping itself up as a connected event or a new FF epic arc or anything. I liked the change in pace and how he winded the run down.
Yessssssssssss. Every goddamn issue. And then he started making it BIGGER and BIGGER, using time travel to the end of time and all sorts of Hickman plot devices to show the significance of AN AVENGERS WORLD.... for what?
People don't give a shit about the Ultimate universe outside of Miles. You should be happy that this was the Ultimate U's send off instead of just having 616 Galactus eat Ultimate Earth in a book no one was reading.
Jack Remington
Banned
Avengers was fun as hell to read while it was happening. Aside from the Sunspot and Shang Chi issues.
cannibalism and incest, good riddance!
Avengers was just the piece of the puzzle guys.
Agreed, Loeb fucked it up beyond repair and once the movies come into play, it put people in the main universe, not the U despite the U influencing the MCU.
Miles was the only thing people talked about from Marvel back in 2011 aside from the movies and he wasn't in the main universe, it was a matter of time.
Thanks!
The tie-ins I'm looking to get are mainly the "event" ones I've enjoyed:
Infinity Gauntlet
Seige
Planet Hulk
Future Imperfect
AoU vs Zombies
XMen 92
Civil War
I'll check out Thors since you guys recommend it. I hope I'm not missing any other ones that are good.
There's a small-ish con coming up here at the end of the month. I'll be looking for these tie-ins on TPBs when I'm there.
The Ultimate Marvel Universe was one of those initiatives that took place around the same time as Marvel Knights. Stories were more grounded, and writers were able to take more risks in their stories without having to worry too much about obtuse continuity.
Then Marvel made that the mandate of the entire Marvel line, and those other imprints were rendered sort of pointless. Ironically, in an attempt to keep the Ultimate Universe feeling different from the main one, writers completely ditched the grounded aspect and went into goofy "What If?" territory.
MHWilliams
Member
And they can always bring it back if they cared. (They don't.)
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Should have had the Cancerverse completely take over the Ultimate Universe, then have Death just wipe it all out in one swipe.
Tell me if I'm understanding correctly: The scene with Panther and the kids was not the old past on 616, it's the new past on Prime Earth where the incursions didn't happen, correct? Or is it not the past at all but just a similar scene in the new present? I hope they clarify whether everyone remembers the old past or not.
I have to wonder why you'd populate these new realities with assholes like Thanos and The Maker and Regent. It was a good ending nonetheless.
I have to wonder why you'd populate these new realities with assholes like Thanos and The Maker and Regent. It was a good ending nonetheless.
Miles making into Prime-ok, Owen did him a solid. But how did the Maker end up there-again, based on the Prime's new streamlined history there's no room for a Maker to even appear as there was only ever one Reed Richards.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
A friend shared this with me weeks ago, and I still love it.
MHWilliams
Member
Had to use that left hand to block T'Challa though.
Correct. Here's the original direction of the same scene from Secret Wars #9, featuring T'Challa with the young Wakandians.
Correct. Here's the original direction of the same scene from Secret Wars #9, featuring T'Challa with the young Wakandians.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The only opponent worthy enough to make Doom use both hands.
I really need to read Ultimates.
exmachina64
Banned
That's basically every event from Marvel and DC at this point. See Sixis.
It's not -that- great, but it's still way better than the non-Hickman Ultimates, lol. But if you enjoy the Maker stuff that's in Secret Wars, yeah it's definitely worth a read just to see more of Hickman's vision of the Ultimates universe and how he established it before he used it for Secret Wars. One thing I recall about Ultimates is how I felt the writing for Tony Stark was really off key and kinda weird, so in that sense, it does share something in common with his Avengers run. Maybe Hickman is just fated to write Fantastic Four. Lol.
googleplex
Member
Oh stop it. Doom fans are getting all of the fanfictions drawn out for them in the main universe. This entire event was just one huge Doctor Doom Wank.
Kaeptain? Is that you?
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