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Batman [Mafia] |OT| The mafia game Gafia deserves , but not the one it needs
- Thread starter roytheone
- Start date
It was a joke Kark. Pro-tip for my posts, if half is spoiler tagged that means there is a tone shift of some sort. In this case the unspoiled was sarcasm and the spoiled was the real post.
I see not much has happened. Plus I'm not suspicious according to Kark's list, so I should probably relax as everyone's going to take it as fact. Phew, thanks Kark!
Anyway, I'm gonna move my vote for now. Weemad's asking good questions; they may seem obvious but at least they're forcing Kark to explain himself a little. I doubt we're going to get anywhere beyond the obvious.
Vote: Mazre
I'm against your ordinary claim on principle. I also think calling Kark's silly post out because of the game's flavor text is less helpful than weemad's obvious questions. What do you hope to accomplish by responding to a silly list with a silly answer? Or are you just playing along?
Anyway, I'm gonna move my vote for now. Weemad's asking good questions; they may seem obvious but at least they're forcing Kark to explain himself a little. I doubt we're going to get anywhere beyond the obvious.
Vote: Mazre
I'm against your ordinary claim on principle. I also think calling Kark's silly post out because of the game's flavor text is less helpful than weemad's obvious questions. What do you hope to accomplish by responding to a silly list with a silly answer? Or are you just playing along?
weemadarthur
Member
At this point, my vote on TL isn't useful. He denies bread crumb, and even if he's lying, it seems a townish crumb.
vote: el topo
It's also a purely bad argument. The only thing town has in a vanilla game is reads. Going around relying on power roles just gives scum an X amount of free days to act. We might as well night start with this attitude.
vote: el topo
I seriously don't believe I've ever seen this argument from town. I've seen it repeatedly from scum, and if my memory serves, the same poster will take an opposite stance in different games, depending on their alignment.
It's also a purely bad argument. The only thing town has in a vanilla game is reads. Going around relying on power roles just gives scum an X amount of free days to act. We might as well night start with this attitude.
It's El Topo's modus operandi in every game I've played with him. Don't read into it as a sign of alignment too much.
weemadarthur
Member
Flame, flux and camjo.
On review, your posts have no original thought or opinion. I want to see some.
If you have no subject to consider, perhaps these questions will help.
Do you feel Pop is not posting due to real life, or as a scum tactic?
What sort of read do you have on Mazre, who at least posted something substantial?
Is Sorian town in this game?
Is Fireblend coasting? Do you see any scum indications in his frivolity?
On review, your posts have no original thought or opinion. I want to see some.
If you have no subject to consider, perhaps these questions will help.
Do you feel Pop is not posting due to real life, or as a scum tactic?
What sort of read do you have on Mazre, who at least posted something substantial?
Is Sorian town in this game?
Is Fireblend coasting? Do you see any scum indications in his frivolity?
1. Who knows.
2. Nothing. He could be as he claimeda vanilla townieand it probably wouldn't be wise for mafia to shine the spotlight on themselves like that when the game's just started. But it could also be a scum/neutral gamble.
3. Who knows.
4. Uh... not really? Coasting as much as anyone else, especially those who haven't posted.
What's your definition of coasting here?
Alright, real post coming in so that maybe some discussion will roll though the same people have been moderately active throughout.
First off: 100% Null Reads
Pop
TheGoddamn
These two just straight haven't posted yet. Inactivity is definitely a tool that scum can use but as far as I am concerned, these two might not even know that the game has started. Could be anything and I'm not going to pretend to read off of nothing.
--------
"Scummy"
Mazre - This one goes without saying and is the easier choice on my list. I already explained my thoughts here on what I thought about his claim and what it could mean. It is a selfish play with only one of four reasonings behind it: a player (regardless of alignment) that just wants to try and survive for awhile only because they want to be involved in the game, a strong town PR that is setting themselves up as useless to draw scum elsewhere, scum trying to give early explanation for why they have lived so long, neutral trying to give early explanation for why they have lived so long. Only 1 of those is actually good for us and another one is a bit of a crap shoot since the first reasoning doesn't really tell us much about alignment. I can't say that this is the best lead to chase down today but we'll have to eventually if Mazre doesn't contribute more as the game goes on or if shenanigans happen near the end of the day and we need to flip away from a town PR to a "safer" option.
Camjo - I commented on his jokey nature and weemad just pressed him again this morning but he was one of the more fun ones to watch because of his snark in love boat and this is just how he plays. I have no doubt that he will point out bullshit when he sees it (kind of like how he just called out Karu for a vote and run). Though the behavior doesn't look very pro-town on the surface that doesn't make it a less valid play style but it does make for a play style that scum can easily hide behind.
Kark - Adding him in here because of this bat computer non-sense that we are doing again this morning. Reading Kark is hard for me, him and Xam are probably one of the hardest for me, personally, to nail down.I can only assume that he is trying to get the ball rolling on some kind of gambit but this entry is here to just point out that throwing suspicion around without actually giving reasoning can favor a scum player, it gives you deniability after a mislynch. Do I think Kark is scum? No. I don't really think Camjo is scum either at the moment but this list is just to point out any odd behavior we've seen so far.
Flux - He has been oddly quiet. I can only assume that as he needed to grow as a player, he would have to realize that he can't thrust himself into the spotlight instantly but I also seem to recall that when he was doppel-scum in werewolf, he was also very reserved, at least until he thought that he had won he game. I mention Flux as a quiet person because last night it was obvious that he was watching the thread since he was answering questions almost instantly. The problem was the questions weren't exactly hard hitting (what he thought of Mazre's claim and then a joke answer to a a sarcastic question from myself). I felt it was worth noting that I think this is either low flying scum or Flux leveling up as a player.
El Topo - I'm refreshing the game page as I write this and weemad basically said my issues with el topo in less words than I would have used - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199202636&postcount=304 He basically requested that we shut down all ways of playing in a vanilla game. Reads lists? Bad. Theorycrafting on what to expect? Bad (though I agree that there isn't much to glean on day 1 before flips but talking about the possible number of scum isn't a problem).
---------
So yeah above is a "scummy" list, just because someone is on the list does not mean I think they are scum, but they have done behavior that I find inconsistent with their personality or is just straight bad play on day 1. If I'm lucky then scum drew unneeded early suspicion but odds are, I probably only hit one on this list and the bulk of the scum team is sitting in the rest of the player list which I'm basically filing as "null because they've done so little that I can't say anything interesting about them"
I will make one exception before I just say the entire rest of the list is null.
Fireblend - Feels towny to me so far. I have a weakness to Fireblend and Coppa because we've played in a lot of games together and the three of us tend to contribute a lot but I liked the exchange I had with Fireblend shortly after game start. He was probing me a bit to see if I was scum this time. He seemed like he was legitimately trying which means he didn't know the answer. He could be a malicious neutral of course but neutral hunting isn't on the day 1 agenda imo, I don't think he is scum.
So with all of that, this post was always going to end with a vote on that "null because they've done so little" list because I have the scummy behavior above to work with but I don't want to let people fly under the radar. I mention Coppa above in the Fireblend entry because the three of us tend to be more active. Coppa has seemed less active than I remember which I find odd.
VOTE: Coppanuva
First off: 100% Null Reads
Pop
TheGoddamn
These two just straight haven't posted yet. Inactivity is definitely a tool that scum can use but as far as I am concerned, these two might not even know that the game has started. Could be anything and I'm not going to pretend to read off of nothing.
--------
"Scummy"
Mazre - This one goes without saying and is the easier choice on my list. I already explained my thoughts here on what I thought about his claim and what it could mean. It is a selfish play with only one of four reasonings behind it: a player (regardless of alignment) that just wants to try and survive for awhile only because they want to be involved in the game, a strong town PR that is setting themselves up as useless to draw scum elsewhere, scum trying to give early explanation for why they have lived so long, neutral trying to give early explanation for why they have lived so long. Only 1 of those is actually good for us and another one is a bit of a crap shoot since the first reasoning doesn't really tell us much about alignment. I can't say that this is the best lead to chase down today but we'll have to eventually if Mazre doesn't contribute more as the game goes on or if shenanigans happen near the end of the day and we need to flip away from a town PR to a "safer" option.
Camjo - I commented on his jokey nature and weemad just pressed him again this morning but he was one of the more fun ones to watch because of his snark in love boat and this is just how he plays. I have no doubt that he will point out bullshit when he sees it (kind of like how he just called out Karu for a vote and run). Though the behavior doesn't look very pro-town on the surface that doesn't make it a less valid play style but it does make for a play style that scum can easily hide behind.
Kark - Adding him in here because of this bat computer non-sense that we are doing again this morning. Reading Kark is hard for me, him and Xam are probably one of the hardest for me, personally, to nail down.I can only assume that he is trying to get the ball rolling on some kind of gambit but this entry is here to just point out that throwing suspicion around without actually giving reasoning can favor a scum player, it gives you deniability after a mislynch. Do I think Kark is scum? No. I don't really think Camjo is scum either at the moment but this list is just to point out any odd behavior we've seen so far.
Flux - He has been oddly quiet. I can only assume that as he needed to grow as a player, he would have to realize that he can't thrust himself into the spotlight instantly but I also seem to recall that when he was doppel-scum in werewolf, he was also very reserved, at least until he thought that he had won he game. I mention Flux as a quiet person because last night it was obvious that he was watching the thread since he was answering questions almost instantly. The problem was the questions weren't exactly hard hitting (what he thought of Mazre's claim and then a joke answer to a a sarcastic question from myself). I felt it was worth noting that I think this is either low flying scum or Flux leveling up as a player.
El Topo - I'm refreshing the game page as I write this and weemad basically said my issues with el topo in less words than I would have used - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199202636&postcount=304 He basically requested that we shut down all ways of playing in a vanilla game. Reads lists? Bad. Theorycrafting on what to expect? Bad (though I agree that there isn't much to glean on day 1 before flips but talking about the possible number of scum isn't a problem).
---------
So yeah above is a "scummy" list, just because someone is on the list does not mean I think they are scum, but they have done behavior that I find inconsistent with their personality or is just straight bad play on day 1. If I'm lucky then scum drew unneeded early suspicion but odds are, I probably only hit one on this list and the bulk of the scum team is sitting in the rest of the player list which I'm basically filing as "null because they've done so little that I can't say anything interesting about them"
I will make one exception before I just say the entire rest of the list is null.
Fireblend - Feels towny to me so far. I have a weakness to Fireblend and Coppa because we've played in a lot of games together and the three of us tend to contribute a lot but I liked the exchange I had with Fireblend shortly after game start. He was probing me a bit to see if I was scum this time. He seemed like he was legitimately trying which means he didn't know the answer. He could be a malicious neutral of course but neutral hunting isn't on the day 1 agenda imo, I don't think he is scum.
So with all of that, this post was always going to end with a vote on that "null because they've done so little" list because I have the scummy behavior above to work with but I don't want to let people fly under the radar. I mention Coppa above in the Fireblend entry because the three of us tend to be more active. Coppa has seemed less active than I remember which I find odd.
VOTE: Coppanuva
I agree that the questions she asked can't have any definitive answer but the game is about making educated guesses. You're not even trying.
That amazing timing as I lay my vote down.
The game is about making educated guesses, but there is not much to guess with right now. I don't jump to assumptions, especially not based on the very little we have now.
On review, I'm pretty sure I specifically gave an original opinion of Sorian and Karu based on their posts, so let's not start this shit. But to answer your questions:
1. Who knows? Let's wait until he actually does post.
2. Claiming you're an ordinary townie on D1 essentially means nothing. We'll have to wait and see what he does.
3. He's certainly the most talkative, not necessarily a scumtell though. If he starts trying to push the "I'm playing louder so I'm playing better!" angle later on then I'll start to get a bit wary.
4. I guess you could say he's coasting. Doesn't really mean much on D1 though.
fireblend (0)
sorian 127 (146)
weemadarthur 147 (165)
karkador (1)
flame_ac 128
weemadarthur (0)
fireblend 139 (303)
sorian (1)
skyodin 141
trigger (0)
sorian 146 (239)
tl21xx (0)
weemadarthur 165 (304)
no lynch (0)
karkador 209 (226)
camjo-z (1)
karu 219
pop-o-matic (1)
trigger 236
thegoddamn (0)
sorian 239 (310)
mazre (2)
xamtheking 256
fireblend 303
el topo (1)
weemadarthur 304
coppanuva (1)
sorian 310
10 Votes needed for majority!
karkador (1)
flame_ac 128
weemadarthur (0)
sorian (1)
skyodin 141
trigger (0)
tl21xx (0)
no lynch (0)
camjo-z (1)
karu 219
pop-o-matic (1)
trigger 236
thegoddamn (0)
mazre (2)
xamtheking 256
fireblend 303
el topo (1)
weemadarthur 304
coppanuva (1)
sorian 310
10 Votes needed for majority!
It wasn't directed at me personally, but I'll chime in nonetheless.
1) Probably real life. I think there's enough to post on right now.
2) I fully admitted to being an ordinary townie Day 1 of my first game. Mazre's circumstances are different, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was legit. His move was selfish, but not everyone makes the most
3) Sorian is Sorian. He hasn't done anything suspicious, but scum rarely out themselves this early.
4) I don't think Fireblend is coasting. There's no pressure on him, but he hasn't necessarily done something that would require pressure.
weemadarthur
Member
.....
Very well. Please return to your previously scheduled entertainment of Wee. Thank you.
SkyOdin
Has posted...nothing suspicious. May be scum hunting. This is either very obvious town behavior, or subtle well done scum behavior. From the new guy. Will wait to see how he works out before deciding. Anyway it's bad form to vote out the newbies on day one without special reason.
12 out of 18 people got some kind of vote activity on them.
That just leaves 6.
If you are so invested in people having vote activity on them why were you on no lynch originally and now don't have any vote out at all?
12 out of 18 people got some kind of vote activity on them.
That just leaves 6.
Reusing the gif I used a couple pages ago?
#scumtell
weemadarthur
Member
TL, your only contributions have come from being poked. Maybe you'd like to agree or disagree with someone here? Or offer a read on any two people?
Karu not around, show up
Pop ditto
Ty4on, defend your hatred of reads lists and then post one anyway
Sorian, trying to read you. In theory you're poking at people and encouraging discussion, but these:
Are just too sheepy. Are you stalking me? You're going to flip scum and then people will think I'm on your team.
Come up with your own poking stick.
Karu not around, show up
Pop ditto
Ty4on, defend your hatred of reads lists and then post one anyway
Sorian, trying to read you. In theory you're poking at people and encouraging discussion, but these:
Are just too sheepy. Are you stalking me? You're going to flip scum and then people will think I'm on your team.
Come up with your own poking stick.
You make some good points and I reiterate on them or want to draw more attention to them. Not sure if you are doing it on purpose or just not noticing but I'm definitely poking on my own. From the things you quoted: I agreed with your vote from that first quote but didn't think it was good enough for my vote to be there, decided to pressure on my own, gave agreement on Mazre and Topo in that second quote but didn't really care for your worry on Fire. I obviously still don't even though you seem too. I asked one question of Kark's bat computer list and my next was going to be what the italicized meant, he ignored my first question and you moved to the italicized so I figured I'd ask as well since maybe two people asking a question might actually get Kark to answer. The last is what it is. You wrote what I wanted to say, I had no reason to rewrite it when it was already there a few posts up.
Past that Flux and Coppa don't seem to be on your radar at all and both are unfavorable to me and I made that point very clear in my bigger post above with my words on my vote.
So yeah, we probably line up about 80% of the time. I'm very transparent when I agree with someone and that's just how it's going to be. I'm not going to tip toe about it because that helps nothing.
Weemad, you haven't answered my question. How do you define coasting, and why do you think I in particular may be doing that? It feels like sort of a leading question, and by asking other people if they feel suspicious of me it also gives me the impression you're trying to make them come up for arguments against me since you've got none. I realize I'm not Mr. Initiative all the time, but I'd say I've hardly been under the radar, so how about you give people reasons to suspect me instead of asking them to come up with some for you?
weemadarthur
Member
Shh.
The question says more about the answerer than the questioner.
You're sure responding rather dramatically though. #scumtell
To be honest, I'm a little confused on why you are singling out Coppanuva with your vote Sorian. I at first thought your vote was a pressure vote to get him to speak more, but now you are calling him scummy? You barely even mentioned him in your list of scum reads, only sneaking in a mention to Coppanuva under the Fireblend section.
Mazre's claim is whatever at this point. He did it either for jokes and laughs or/and he wants to confuse scum, see everyone's reaction.
You're good in my books...
SkyOdin acts okay...
You're good in my books...
SkyOdin acts okay...
That's like... haha *wink wink* TOWN YOU KNOW! Like in the good ol' days! Has also a policy vote on Pop.Trigger said:
Who says I'm not around? :-(
Are you looking for anything in particular here or do you just want me to talk more? I'm not interested in playing hard-nosed investigator right now, I don't have the energy. I'm formulating thoughts on the game so far. Those'll come up later.
Since you are around, mind explaining why you voted for Camjo-Z? I've been curious about your reasoning.
What can I call you, weemad?
I didn't say I found him scummy, I did say that he is unfavorable though or someone that I would like to focus on. You'll notice that I said in that Fireblend portion that both Fire and Coppa are weaknesses for me. I mentioned that because when I was originally writing that list, I was going to put both Fire and Coppa as leaning town but then I realized that read on Fire was grounded in this game but Coppa hasn't actually done anything in this game to really make me feel that way. He made his appearance and it felt like logical town Coppa but then I was actually looking back and saw that his presence wasn't as big as it usually is. That worries me. It could be nothing and maybe he was just busy or it could be him taking a backseat after being scum or a SK again, I don't know.
So to answer the exact question, yes, it is a pressure vote because I want to see him talk more but I'm also not making it a secret that I am very cold towards him and the pressure vote could change to a real "I want to lynch you" vote fairly easily.
weemadarthur
Member
Interesting. Why?
Uhm, I literally said so in my initial post, I believe. No hidden meaning or anything
weemadarthur
Member
Sorry if it's a bit vague, but how would you say you read people?
You're only going to be able to dance around your blind reasoning for so long, that weird psycopath
---
Mazre, I have my vote sitting on you. Can you explain your reasoning for claiming ordinary? Are you going to claim it was purely for selfish reasons? What are your thoughts on recent happenings? Can you talk a bit more about your thoughts on Coppa?
weemadarthur
Member
Too vague.
I thought I already justified my thoughts for each read.
Was there something specific?
Okay, I went back and double checked and you did. I guess I've been a little nervous about you since you came in to make a vote, but haven't participated in much other discussion. However, I can't expect everyone to be posting 24/7.Uhm, I literally said so in my initial post, I believe. No hidden meaning or anything
How do you scumhunt?
weemadarthur
Member
In Princesses, it turned out that mostly everyone being mean to me were scum.
I don't know if that will carry across to other games, but it's a start. So I talk to people and see how they respond.
I guess that's the best answer I could expect
Sorian and Fire are playing as I remember them for the most part. Did anything specific catch your attention with Fire that made you lock onto him?
weemadarthur
Member
Fire and I are mostly joking from our last game where I maintained suspicion of him on a policy level.
He feels more relaxed in his phrasing though, joking around and not being too serious. I thought coasting was a fair word.
Ah, I didn't read princess.
Do you have any that stand out? You seemed worried of Sorian agreeing with you.
weemadarthur
Member
I thought I posted about everyone. Sorian said i missed coppanuva. He needed to show up and participate like karu. And flame, but I asked him questions. He just didn't answer. (Yet)
Everyone else, is in my posts from today. Pretty sure.
If I missed someone else let me know, I'll post my thoughts.
having vote activity on you is not the same as having a vote out
Karkador, what's your angle in this game? So far, you have been posting in a manner that I can best describe as confusing and erratic. It vaguely feels like you are trying to paint a target on your own back, but I can't for the life of me figure out why.