FF13 LR comes pretty close.
It's also the most recent one, so at least the trend is right!
I agree.
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Tabata comments on Final Fantasy XV for PC
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
It's also the most recent one, so at least the trend is right!
FF1-9 are available on IOS. Definitely recommend 6,7 and 10 if you have access to a device that plays them.
DarkLordMalik
Member
What makes you say so? They already have a CG movie and anime that explains the backstory. I have no doubt the ending will be conclusive. I would have agreed with your comment if Nomura was still making the game, since he touted it as "A World of Versus Epic" which was dropped quickly once Tabata was brought as full-time director.
They can create spin-offs if the game is successful enough but I don't think we are getting another XIII-like trilogy.
charlequin
Banned
Type-0 came out 5 months later than consoles and went from $60 to $30, so maybe I underestimated.
You have to take into account that FFXIII was a major negative for the FF brand as a whole. Yes, it's true that it was received badly and had lousy word of mouth -- but both of these things have also reduced the sales potential of FFXV.
MGSV is a bit above a 5 million seller worldwide, so yes, I do think it will perform similarly to that. If it stalls out on 5-6 million that really doesn't get it close to the number we're talking about.
Here is a list of active console AAA franchises that did 10+ million on their last outing: GTA, Fallout, Skyrim, Borderlands, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, Destiny. Exactly two of those are real RPGs -- they're by the same publisher and fine-tuned to a far more general-audience-friendly design and theme than FF would bring to the table. Most of them are shooters. When you get outside of Bethesdaworld you pretty much need extremely strong support from the PC market in order to even make it to the next tier down from there, and SE is explicitly giving PC gamers sloppy seconds at best here.
When you look at this analysis, you need to accept three things to start: 1) that even huge mainstream success AAA franchises like Assassin's Creed aren't 10 million sellers today in 2016, 2) that Final Fantasy as a brand and a product offering has never been as popular as even some of those sub-10m franchises, much less the ones I listed above, and 3) the FF brand has been on a decline for the past decade and nothing has happened that suggests a reversal of that trend.
You are really misreading the hype.
No Duscae demo was probably a big reason there.
Personally i think this is both a combination of them having to focus their resources to PS4/Xbone, as well as maybe launching, GTAV style, a remastered version for PS4K, whatever Xbox does, and PC, later on (a year from now).
I mean it's hard to launch an old game pretending it's new and exciting, but if you polish it up and implement some of the feedback from people who bought it on PS4 in the first place, it could give it new life.
But again, i do think the main reason is simply the fact that they didn't have the resources for a PC version at launch.
GhostTrick
Banned
It's not a lack of ressource. They have the money for a cg movie and an anime, then they have the money to hire 4 to 5 guys for a pc port.
wonderful103
Member
You still need to QA the PC UWA I believe, which clearly requires money to be spent to make the sweet sweet extra dough that Square Enix would prefer to leave on the table.
Hiring some random guys to do a port of a game that is still under development on an unfinished engine, it must end will right?
It still amazes me that people think porting a game to PC is a small deal. They spent months to port FFIX onto PC.
Considering they want to sell 10 millions eventually, an UWA is not going to help them with that.
And a PC version still needs some extra care no matter what (settings, mouse/keyboard-support,..)
I mean of course they have the resources in SE, it's not like they have ran dry, I'm saying they don't want allocate more resources to the game itself.
Anime and movie are somewhat separate, and add value in a different manner, than a PC port would.
Also, the people doing the CG movie probably needed something to do, lol.
Assuming they want a competent PC port, too.
Dictator93
Member
I guess we will finally see the agni's philosophy engine on PC in a released form. Cool.
roadrunn3r
Member
It's not a small deal but they are leaving money on the table by not doing it and that's a bad business decision no matter how you justify it.
Outsourcing an anime and giving their CGI studio work is not the same as making a PC port of their biggest game (which they can't fuck up), who knows, maybe some studio is already working on it, as others have said I expect a PC/PS4.5/XB1.5 version for the next year.
Making sure a game which runs on an engine that already runs on PC is also shippable is not a non-effort, but it also isn't a huge deal.
I still think they are under the mistaken impression that they will make more money with a staggered release.
Possumowner
Member
It better be a damn good console version,without lots of frame rate issues,I've already pre-ordered the CE so I guess I'll find out.
I'd love it on PC though,my preferred platform
I'd love it on PC though,my preferred platform
The problem here is that GTAV reviewed extremely well and had strong mind presence just about everywhere. It practically sells itself at this point, in large volumes, which is not something that can be said of FFXV.
(not to mention among of the most lavish and extensive marketing spends).
FF Seraphim
Member
Can we share Durante to SE to work faster on said PC build?
Still getting the Collectors Edition for the PS4 though.
Still getting the Collectors Edition for the PS4 though.
GhostTrick
Banned
You're right. It takes a bigger work for these things than a PC port, for less revenue.
4 or 5 people (at most, I recall they said they had one guy full time on PS4) is the number of people CDPR allocated to each platform port. If you develop in the right mindset as cross platform software you don't need a massive engineering team to make each individual platform specific functionality.
We already know that Luminous started life as a PC engine running on dx11, heck they started the ps4 port of the full game only last year IIRC. Beyond that the real manpower is probably in terms of QA, but there you're likely to outsource that.
charlequin
Banned
Compared to the other elements involved in the development of a modern AAA game it absolutely is a small deal. Again, every Western AAA franchise is capable of delivering a functional PC version, built with at least the normal expected set of PC-specific functionality, at the same time as their console releases. Being unable to accomplish this when even hot mess publishers like Ubisoft can pull it off regularly (or, heck, SE's own Western studios) speaks to a deep-seated technical incompetence.
(This should also be obvious, but it's actually dramatically harder to port old games created for very specific historical consoles to modern PCs than it is to port modern console games, all of which run to some degree on PCs during development.)
I suspect that there is serious resistance in SE's Japanese offices to listening to their Western teams when they explain that PC is a real platform.
The management at Japanese game developers being short sighted? That is like saying water is wet.
GhostTrick
Banned
MikeE21286
Member
Of course a PC version will come. The investment is too big. But it will not be for awhile
How long do you consider "awhile"?
Yeah, i don't think they aren't working on a PC version at all. They just wouldn't tell that to us now, for obvious reasons. And yes, the biggest focus right now is for the two versions that will release first, in september, but that doesn't mean that the game will come out only on those two platforms, or that we're going to have to wait years for the game to release elsewhere.
I still think it will come on PC in the first half of 2017, maybe even on the NX if the hardware is decent. Their ambition is to sell those 10 million copies, you can bet that they'll release the game on every platform that is able to run it.
I still think it will come on PC in the first half of 2017, maybe even on the NX if the hardware is decent. Their ambition is to sell those 10 million copies, you can bet that they'll release the game on every platform that is able to run it.
GhostTrick
Banned
Which is stupid on SE part. The investment is too big, then they should do as much as possible to get the money back.
6 months to 1 year late ports no one cares about anymore wont cut it. They need to launch as soon as possible, close to the marketing period. And also stop to say it's undecided yet. Yes it is decided. Just announce you're working on the damn thing but it may come a bit later.
GhostTrick
Banned
FFXV could sell that amount if they have the launch hype indeed. Otherwise, I dont see it past 500k.
KojiKnight
Member
How many copies of that were at $15 or 20 though? FFXIII has already gone on steep discount multiple times.
All of them, since it came out at 16$ with a launch discount of 10% or something.
And that's the thing, the longer they delay FFXV, the lower the launch price is going to be and double dippers will not make up the difference.
They're leaving a lot of money on the table.
So? it was released 5 years after the original release.
JoeyJungle
Banned
I thought for a while that the combination of FFXIII and FFXIV 1.0 had permanently damaged the brand, but I think it's had some recovery in recent years. First off there's FFXIV ARR, which is probably the most impressive recovery any game has ever had post-launch. It's pretty much the only B2P+monthly fee MMO that's successfully landed since WoW. Secondly, Squeenix has kept the FF franchise in the public consciousness by re-releasing almost the entire franchise over the past few years (1-9 on mobile, 10+10-2 on console, various ports to handheld). They've also had several games that kinda just look back fondly on the series, basically doing PR via games for the franchise (specifically thinking of FF Record Keeper on mobile and Theatrhythm on 3DS).
I agree with you that they haven't had a mainline title land with a bang in a long time, but I think that FFXV might be different. Looking at where the Tomb Raider franchise was a couple years ago to where it is now, I think that FFXV might be an equivalent to the TR reboot.
http://kotaku.com/5224724/tomb-raider-lifetime-sales-show-off-lara-crofts-biggest-hits
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/06/tomb-raider-reboot-has-sold-85-million-copies
The franchise was basically never able to have a game sell more than 3M after the PSX era, but the TR reboot is on its way to selling 10M. I don't know if FFXV can mimic that success in that same time period, but I think over a couple years it has a good chance of hitting those numbers.
I think FFXV might be the Gundam Wing of the FF franchise, in that they'll able to make inroads internationally that have eluded them before. They're making a lot of decisions that make the game appealing to a mainstream fanbase (open world, no turn based combat, ~~dreamy~~ cast of characters). And contrary to the potential sales shrinking due to negative reviews of previous games, I think that they have a much larger potential fanbase than the previous games due to geekdom/anime culture becoming much more mainstream and anime-ass-anime not being strictly consumed by either children or hardcore otaku culture. I'm comparing to the late 90's/early 00's when FF was at its peak in terms of quality and sales, and anime was either saturday morning cartoons by Dic or weekday shows by Toonami, or else imported on VHS from the uber-hardcore. Argument can be made that that was already changing by the time FFXII came out what with the Adult Swim lineup, but I really don't think that compares to how mainstream it's become with Crunchyroll/Funimation/Hulu/Netflix in addition to many casual/non-tech savvy fans easily able to pirate via sites that stream manga/anime fantranslations, compared to when it was necessary to torrent at relatively uncommon internet speeds for VHS rips.
I think that there's a ton of teenagers with a casual interest in anime, maybe they've only seen Free and a few other shows - I think that FFXV is going to appeal to that market, which I don't think really existed to a major degree when FFX or FFXII came out. I think FFXV is going to be a lot of people's first FF game ever.
I also think that their crossmedia marketing push may have a some minor positive impact in mainstream sales just because of the people involved with it (Aaron Paul, Lena Headey, Sean Bean), but I usually have a pretty pessimistic view on the effectiveness of crossmedia promotions and don't really see FFXV's being the exception to it. However, I do think that it shows that Squeenix is going to invest a HUGE amount of money marketing the game, and that's going to lead to some sales.
I think that if it stalls at 5-6M after the first few months, they've still got a good chance to hit their goal within the generation. I think that the PC release has a floor of ~300,000 and a ceiling of ~1.5M, and depending on the quality of the port/game, and the time it takes to release that port, I think it can land pretty much anywhere in that range. That puts them at ~5-7M within the first 12 months of release.
Again, if the PS4K comes out this year, I think that FFXV will be one of the games most heavily promoted by Sony, and will also likely have have a bundle attached to it. I think that on the high-end, that can lead to and additional 1M sales, or at least boost the legs of the game via people wanting a game to show off the PS4K.
That puts it at ~6-8M. If it's at the higher end of that range, I think it's pretty inevitable that they'd be able to hit 10M by the end of the generation just through sales on steam/PSN/etc.
Those are all games that hit 10M+ pretty much instantly at launch, which I've never claimed FFXV had any chance at all of doing (they definitely don't). I'm arguing that the game definitely has a realistic path to hitting that number by the end of the generation, if the following happens:
1) FFXV gets very positive reviews (85-92 metacritic range)
2) Embraced by the traditional FF fanbase (based on the FF uncovered hype and reaction, I think that's already happened). I think positive word of mouth is important, but I think what's even more important is avoiding a negative reaction from fans, who vocally discourage anyone from buying the game (which is what happened with 13 and both its sequels). I think it's hugely important that FFXV avoids that.
3) If the PC port comes out within 2-4 months from console release, and is a good port, it can sell close to ~1M over a few months. If it comes out 6-8 months late, I think it will still generate ~1M over 12 months, but many of those being at 25-50% off.
4) If the PS4K comes out this year, FFXV will get a PS4K patch and be heavily marketed by Sony in addition to being bundled with the game, generating an additional ~1M over a few months
5) If all of the above happens, they'll be able to hit 10M this generation from PSN/Steam/retail sales
I really just don't see this as being super outlandish. They would need all the cards to line up in their favor, which may be unlikely (particularly unsure about the PS4K timing) but I think that the path to 10M over ~5 years is definitely there.
DalikSkywing
Member
20$ digital is still more revenue than a full price physical.
charlequin
Banned
I don't see any factual basis for this. Check any possible measure that could serve as a proxy for this -- Google Trends results, sales of franchise entries, Metacritic and user scores, Youtube video views -- and you'll see both a consistent decline from 2006 (when this game was technically announced) to today, and also measures of engagement that are significantly lower than other major franchises.
This is also not really accurate. I mean, yes, it's true that they're going for an open-world design, but none of these elements is executed in a way that actually builds engagement with the current AAA audience. Whether or not the game technically has an open-world, the actual play structure is built around a linear, plot driven road trip -- the exact opposite of what makes large Western open-world games successful. The characters are almost a cliche of how Japanese design is out of touch with the West -- nothing at all like what typically succeeds in Western games. And so on.
Once again, I do not think this is accurate. Final Fantasy 7 was such a hit in part because it came at the peak of American interest in Japanese culture -- this is also when Pokemon was taking off, when Toonami was debuting, when Japan was a particularly exciting source of cultural influence in a variety of areas. There's certainly an upswing in interest relative to the immediately previous period, but it's more specific -- it's more that certain brands and properties are succeeding than that there's a rising interest in "anime," and it's primarily with properties aimed at teenagers, not at the demographics that buy AAA console games.
I actually don't consider any one of these to be likely. All four happening would be a huge string of lucky breaks.
R10Neymarfan
Member
That's why I'm glad Tabata headed this project. He replaced the hierarchy, made the workplace more diverse, and incorporated an efficient machine.He definitely has a modern way of thinking and he did follow through on his promise to getting Type 0 HD on PC. I think FFXV PC will come very soon after the initial release.
S-E needs more guys like Tabata not just in games development but in general business management. The company needs to shake it's archaic ways and go full on global game dev.
JoeyJungle
Banned
If nothing else, they were more-or-less able to stop the decline in interest. Since ARR launched in 2013 (the most recent peak for FF) their google trends rank basically hit a floor, only dropping below 13 four times, and right now their ranking is surging and on par with their last peak.
Also while google trends may be helpful for tracking the overall popularity of the series, I don't think that it's a perfect indicator for sales of future games. Looking at other series, MGS and Witcher's google trends give absolutely no indication toward the success the most recent games in the series would have compared to their historical popularity.
My understanding is that it has a semi-open world similar to MGSV or (to a lesser extent) Witcher 3. Also the recently revealed batmobile/airship likely means that the game becomes much more open at some point in the story. Even if it's not a totally open world, I think it will probably be "open enough" for fans who felt burned by FFXIII's on-rails gameplay.
And again, I think that getting rid of turn based combat is HUGE in making the game more appealing to people who traditionally have little-to-no interest in the JRPG genre (specifically thinking people with no interest in the genre or whose only familiarity with the genre is Pokemon or Mario RPGs).
Google trends says anime is on the rise!
But seriously, I think that there is a general interest in anime, among teenagers in particular, that is cumulatively greater than the dramatic spike that the late 90's/early 00's had. I think that also pairs with the mainstreaming of "nerd culture" to give this game a larger potential market than the previous games had. I don't think that Japanese culture has the same "alien and exciting" type of popularity it had in the west back then, but I also think that reduction in distance between the cultures reduces any "foreign and unappealing" elements that its otherness might have also previously had. All-in-all I think that there's less rabid interest in the culture, but much more general interest.
And just to elaborate on why I mentioned the characters being so ~~dreamy~~, I think that the bishounen art style of the main characters are popular among both sexes, and again that makes me think of the effect that Gundam Wing had on the Gundam franchise, which I think the bishounen art style had a large responsibility for. (though obv not a perfect comparison, I would also argue that FF7 was the Wing of the FF franchise, and was able to succeed due to a variety of reasons including the ones which you mention).
Agree on both counts. But I think it has a good enough chance of happening that it's not a foregone conclusion either way.
GhostTrick
Banned
One would think FFXV would come on same day because it would bring SE much more sales. The double dippers strategy is completely stupid and makes no sense sales wise.
You rather sales 500k to 1m units at full price digitally than 250k to 500k, in a best case scenario in which the game comes later, has amazing reviews and word of mouth, and a discounted price, with a good port.
charlequin
Banned
I don't really want to argue any of these in more depth (I'll just summarize as I am more willing to grant for discussion the weaker claims here than your original ones) because I want to focus on the bigger picture argument here. These are all indicators that, in the limited context of discussing whether FFXIII portends even greater declines for the series, could be fairly positive. However, that's not truly the topic under discussion.
Rather, the question is whether XV can perform dramatically better than even the most globally successful, culturally defining entry in the series to date. None of this stuff even sniffs at the border of making that a plausible claim. You can make a reasonable pitch for XV performing comparably to XIII overall but creeping up on better legs to something more like 7-8m total copies (ignoring ASP) worldwide, but that's already an optimistic, high-upside scenario for this game. The gap from that to the type of performance we're talking about (10 million at pre-bargain-bin prices) is immense.
Don't forget we are talking about SE Japan here. They've been a console developer for what? 30 years? They released no game on PC in the PS2 and PS3 era. (FFXIII is a much later port.) I think it's justifiable if they are not as competence as western developers who have been making PC games for 10 years. The development started in 2012, back then I can't even imagine a world in which SE try to port all their games onto PC.
How many people worked on Arkham Knight though? CDPR can do it doesn't mean everyone else can do it.
texhnolyze
Banned
Not true. They had FFXI, FFXIV, DQ X, and The Last Remnant.
FFXI, FFXIV and DQX are MMORPGs.
You get me on The Last Remnant. I honestly didn't know it has a PC port. Actually I don't know much about that game at all. Is it good?