AzureFlame
Member
The gameplay is very simple and fun.
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Uncharted is a legit great TPS (mechanics, encounters, level design)
- Thread starter Fancy Clown
- Start date
If you have terrible aim and/or no concept of headshots, recoil or flinch, sure.
2 and 4 have excellent combat and enemy encounter design. 1 and 3 are poor in this regard. As much as I enjoy the combat in 4, I do miss the snappy, arcadey feel of UC2's aiming. It might be my favorite in terms of simply shooting the weapons. Although UC4's 'arena' design is on another level - https://abload.de/img/ezgif.com-video-to-gi8bqrw.gif
JayWood2010
Member
Character tends to roll around a little clumsily instead of intuitively entering cover as you want it to be, moving wall to wall etc. Uncharted as a franchise has always been criticized for its TPS mechanics for reason. Its enjoyable, and certainly solid. It however doesnt have the greatest mechanics in the world. Its also not the main draw of Uncharted which is why its not really that big of a deal. Without the mechanics it has, other aspects of the game would suffer instead. Its an action/adventure game focused on story telling. Uncharted 4 is also has much less shooting sections than previous installments in the franchise.
As I said above, Uncharted 4 is one of the best games ive ever played, but not one of the best TPS games.
Magic Mushroom
Member
It's especially true of 4, which is the most dynamic TPS of all time. Almost every major fight is a little combat sandbox to play around in. There are some wonderful gifs of this in the UC4 thread. Previous UC's had this as well, but only to an extent. 4 has more tools, enemy AI is more fun and the levels are much bigger and full of little routes and verticality.
It's an awesome combat game.I much prefer it to Gears, which is very one-note compared to this.
It's an awesome combat game.I much prefer it to Gears, which is very one-note compared to this.
Using the Hook to spike someone in the head is great
Ricky Ricardo
Member
I can't sit here and pretend I didn't see that rocket go wiiiide off the mark there, I'm sorry. LOL
Fancy Clown
Member
Pretty sure it hit the dude on the upper deck
As much as I love Uncharted 4, yeah it needed like twice as many encounters
That splash damage, yo. He ded.
You need to push the stick towards what you want to lock to in Uncharted. You'll roll past cover if you're not pointing your stick at it, with quite a measure of accuracy.
Unlike Gears, which is forward-locked TPS (making thumping to cover very unambiguous), Uncharted uses all 360 degrees of movement with the left stick. You need to be more precise, frankly. "Git gud", I guess.
MGSV is fucking brilliant but it has a lot of different things going on. Open world, very deep stealth, near-military simulation, etc. Uncharted 4 is equally good IMO, just going for a completely different thing.
Was there really any doubt about this though? Uncharted 4 has only made it even more clear that they're some of the best TPS ever.
Try harder.
Try harder.
JayWood2010
Member
Im aware of how the mechanics work. Doesnt change what I said, and it has nothing to do with skill I can assure you.
esmith08734
Member
The combat was always the problem for me with Uncharted. It just felt like it carried no weight. I mean, a machine gun/pistol/assault rifle all felt the same to me.
Exploratory
Banned
If you think Uncharted 4 has equally good TPS mechanics as MGSV the conversation is essentially over.
Edit: Also lmao at the git gud comment you can't be serious.
RecRoulette
Member
I've always said that Uncharted has great mechanics, but they never get used well enough in the single player campaigns. Uncharted 4's encounters were better, but they still felt like busywork to get to the better parts of the game.
I actually prefer 2 to 4.
The open areas, cover constantly getting destroyed, not being able to throw back grenades makes certain encounters incredibly annoying on harder difficulties. I feel like its REALLY encouraging you to use its halfassed stealth mechanics. Also feels like there's less weapon variety, especially early on.
The open areas, cover constantly getting destroyed, not being able to throw back grenades makes certain encounters incredibly annoying on harder difficulties. I feel like its REALLY encouraging you to use its halfassed stealth mechanics. Also feels like there's less weapon variety, especially early on.
Uncharted 4's combat is by far the best in the series and is the first to be legit great in my opinion. The level design and diversity of mechanics/options are what make it amazing.
I am also of the opinion that Uncharted isn't a pure TPS and is difficult to compare properly to strictly TPS' like Gears and Vanquish. Those games are all shooting/cover so naturally it feels better because that's the entire point and focus of those games. Where in Uncharted you have stealth, melee, and vertical options far more woven into the combat.
I am also of the opinion that Uncharted isn't a pure TPS and is difficult to compare properly to strictly TPS' like Gears and Vanquish. Those games are all shooting/cover so naturally it feels better because that's the entire point and focus of those games. Where in Uncharted you have stealth, melee, and vertical options far more woven into the combat.
boredandlazy
Member
"Git gud" was tongue in cheek.
I didn't say equally good "combat mechanics" as MGSV. I just said the combat was equally good - albeit completely different. That's not a reference to the mechanics specifically, but the overall tone and effect of the combat and how it was designed by these two master developers.
You clearly value precision and sterile accuracy over all else, so yeah, I guess the conversation is over. I love Uncharted 4 for the character, nuance, and visceral impact they squeeze into every shot, punch, jump and explosion. Into every frame. MGSV has god-tier mechanics in terms of design, but it's, as I said, very sterile and military. I never found hiding behind cover and popping out to shoot a guy as satisfying in MGSV as I found it in in Uncharted 4. That's because Uncharted 4 is trying to be a high-octane thriller – MGSV isn't. MGSV is a more realistic and nuanced thriller. This conversation is like comparing real-world footage of soldiers in a conflict zone with a Michael Mann film.
If you value that authenticity and precision, then sure, for you MGSV's combat is better. I value affect, style and 'cinematic' moments more, and MGSV has never given me any of those. In MGSV I've never clambered up on to a ruin, leapt off and smashed a guy's skull in, dodged a grenade, kicked a dude off a cliff, then rope-swung off said cliff around a building and smashed another guy's skull in. It's just doing a different thing from Uncharted. I would call those actions 'better combat' than MGSV. In MGSV I just dive and shoot. Dive and shoot. (MGSV is obviously a masterwork though and it's one of my favourite games.)
And no, in Uncharted 4 I have never rolled past cover or got stuck on the wrong piece of cover. This happened to me maybe four times in Uncharted 1, never in Uncharted 2 or 3, and never in Uncharted 4.
Uncharted 1 and 3 do have very flawed gameplay, though. Mainly because of the level/encounter design.
Well, arguably it does. Because in my experience I have never, ever rolled past cover, because I have pointed the stick at it. Point the stick at the cover, anywhere in a 360 degree radius, and Nate will lock to said cover.
And AFAIK no other review has mentioned this 'massive issue' and the game got unilateral praise for how its gameplay mechanics work (even if people had issues other with it, eg structure or pace etc).
JayWood2010
Member
Read what I said. I did not say anything about it or me being inept. I said it was a clumsy system. In other words it does not feel tight or intuitive. it however is necessary because it isnt just a TPS, but rather an action/adventure with platforming and puzzles. Its going for a cinematic story which is why its necessary. Its one of the best games ever, but that isnt because of its combat.
Games like Gears of War is tight and smooth, and the nuances of the game has a huge amount of depth which shows in the multiplayer.
Exploratory
Banned
Honestly I think UC4 is a game who's review score is most effected by hype but that's a completely different discussion. But the argument "it doesn't happen to me so it doesn't happen" is one of the worst a person can make.
Fancy Clown
Member
I think all that stuff actually makes you have to move more often, not necessarily use stealth more (although that helps thin the herd if it's too tough). I also think 4 has by FAR the most weapon variety in the series. I wanted more encounters so I could use some of the weapons more
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Haven't read the entire thread, but I disagree with some parts of the OP.
"It's about movement" and "don't always stay in cover"? That's easy for you to say when you play on Normal. The game is generous and you can take hits while moving around without problem. On Hard and Crushing you will die really fast if you do that.
You do need to move regardless because staying in cover too long will just either make the enemies flank you, spam grenades (why is it that they get infinite grenades and I don't? and infinite ammo too of course), or break the cover if it's a destructible one (which is a lot of them in UC4).
But, you can't run and gun so well unless you're some sort of run-and-gun god or you'll get wrecked. You need to use the cover a lot more or you'll die in seconds. And if there are armoured guys and snipers around, well, god help you.
What sucks about it is that it can really depend on your current weapon loadout. One time in UC4 I picked up a big-ass shotgun and killed the remaining enemies with it. Cool. I loot the ammo to top it off, then continue on. Next encounter? All snipers and machinegun soldiers far away from me. Ugh. Not like I can go back and pick up a different weapon, I have to make do. But another encounter like that, where I had kept a grenade launcher from the past encounter, made the next one almost trivial. My boyfriend (who is typically better at those games than me) commented on how he retried that fight countless times but I had few problems.
The thing that sucks the most about the combat in this game, however, is how the button for taking cover and dodge-rolling are the same button. "You have to move around not stay hidden!" Okay, champ, but half the time I want to be rolling Nate gets glued to a random piece of cover that gets in my way, sometimes at ridiculous range because the animation is canned and he just gets vacuumed into that cover from far away, and half the time I want to be ducking under cover Nate rolls away into the hail of gunfire. Like seriously, I don't remember if it was this bad in UC1-2-3, but in UC4 I found myself cursing at the screen for this constantly. When my character doesn't do what I want him to do after my button press, repeatedly, it's frustrating and a problem with the game design. I'm sure they could have come up with a control scheme that was better than this, or maybe make it so that Nate doesn't magnetize to any piece of cover so easily when you press O.
"It's about movement" and "don't always stay in cover"? That's easy for you to say when you play on Normal. The game is generous and you can take hits while moving around without problem. On Hard and Crushing you will die really fast if you do that.
You do need to move regardless because staying in cover too long will just either make the enemies flank you, spam grenades (why is it that they get infinite grenades and I don't? and infinite ammo too of course), or break the cover if it's a destructible one (which is a lot of them in UC4).
But, you can't run and gun so well unless you're some sort of run-and-gun god or you'll get wrecked. You need to use the cover a lot more or you'll die in seconds. And if there are armoured guys and snipers around, well, god help you.
What sucks about it is that it can really depend on your current weapon loadout. One time in UC4 I picked up a big-ass shotgun and killed the remaining enemies with it. Cool. I loot the ammo to top it off, then continue on. Next encounter? All snipers and machinegun soldiers far away from me. Ugh. Not like I can go back and pick up a different weapon, I have to make do. But another encounter like that, where I had kept a grenade launcher from the past encounter, made the next one almost trivial. My boyfriend (who is typically better at those games than me) commented on how he retried that fight countless times but I had few problems.
The thing that sucks the most about the combat in this game, however, is how the button for taking cover and dodge-rolling are the same button. "You have to move around not stay hidden!" Okay, champ, but half the time I want to be rolling Nate gets glued to a random piece of cover that gets in my way, sometimes at ridiculous range because the animation is canned and he just gets vacuumed into that cover from far away, and half the time I want to be ducking under cover Nate rolls away into the hail of gunfire. Like seriously, I don't remember if it was this bad in UC1-2-3, but in UC4 I found myself cursing at the screen for this constantly. When my character doesn't do what I want him to do after my button press, repeatedly, it's frustrating and a problem with the game design. I'm sure they could have come up with a control scheme that was better than this, or maybe make it so that Nate doesn't magnetize to any piece of cover so easily when you press O.
Fancy Clown
Member
In 4 especially it's an absolute imperative that you stay mobile in combat, especially on harder difficulties. The AI is super mobile, really good at flanking, cover can be destroyed, grenades, and armored and sniper enemies will flush you out of any position if you try to camp. This creates the fast-paced, high octane, super scrappy action encounters that I love about the series. Rarely do I find encounters cheap, you just have to take advantage of your move set and the level design. I really don't have trouble with sticking to the wrong cover either. Honestly I have more trouble in Gears of War slamming into a piece of cover while trying to control the cumbersome sprint in a cramped environment.
Something I love about the combat arenas in 4 is that you can climb on nearly anything. I've done so many death defying leaps just to get out of dodge and caught on to some ledge that let me flank or get the high ground, it's the most adrenaline pumping thing ever.
Something I love about the combat arenas in 4 is that you can climb on nearly anything. I've done so many death defying leaps just to get out of dodge and caught on to some ledge that let me flank or get the high ground, it's the most adrenaline pumping thing ever.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Compared to other third person shooters that put "combat" first, Uncharted just doesn't play as well, or is as fun, imo. It's janky, bullet spongy in a setting where it doesn't make sense, and the "kill rooms" just aren't that exciting, or interesting.
I'll take the combat in a Gears, or even as of late, Metal Gear Solid V, before Uncharted 4 in a second. Not even close.
I'll take the combat in a Gears, or even as of late, Metal Gear Solid V, before Uncharted 4 in a second. Not even close.
It's not just "it doesn't happen to me", though? It clearly hasn't been an issue for tens upon tens of reviewers. At least, if it is an issue, it's clearly a nitpick. Has it happened to you?
The "reviews due to hype" argument is absurd. Especially in the current climate of criticism, which has been noted by many on GAF alone. The only games to get over 90 this gen (ie in the last 1.5-2 years) genuinely deserved it (eg MGSV, TW3, UC4, Bloodborne, GTAV, etc) and plenty of super-hyped titles got good-not-great reviews (Division, Destiny, Batman AK, CoD, JC3, Halo 5).
Your posts are reading like "a nitpicker's guide to game criticism".
Edit: oh and of course, Uncharted 4 isn't a third person shooter. It's an action adventure game in which combat is handled like a third person shooter, but is mixed with the platforming and mobility of the general adventure gameplay. Arguably this is an 'apples and oranges' situation.
I'm playing on Crushing and I do plenty of that
On Hard/Crushing it becomes about picking your moment perfectly. Spent 30 seconds shuffling around in cover waiting until your foes are reloading/distracted by your teammate before you leap out and do some badass shit. Also you have to make use of dynamic stealth a lot more on Hard/Crushing. Lose your enemies > do a bass acrobatic move > get spotted in the process > lose your enemies > repeat
Ah, you get this, too.
Seriously baffled by this. It was only an issue for me in UC1.
I think it falls far short of being a great TPS.
There are all these interesting movement possibilities, but the game punishes you for trying to move around the room too much, and often your best bet is just turtling.
There are very few enemy types, and each is pretty braindead. Other than a basic flanking manoeuvre they don't do very much. Encounters are made more difficult near the end of the game just by throwing hordes of enemies at your rather than by any kind of clever encounter design.
Said enemies take altogether too many shots to put down, which isn't exactly satisfying.
The weapons you get are bog-standard and not particularly interesting.
I don't know, I'm not sure what people see in it.
There are all these interesting movement possibilities, but the game punishes you for trying to move around the room too much, and often your best bet is just turtling.
There are very few enemy types, and each is pretty braindead. Other than a basic flanking manoeuvre they don't do very much. Encounters are made more difficult near the end of the game just by throwing hordes of enemies at your rather than by any kind of clever encounter design.
Said enemies take altogether too many shots to put down, which isn't exactly satisfying.
The weapons you get are bog-standard and not particularly interesting.
I don't know, I'm not sure what people see in it.
SurfaceofChristianity
Banned
/thread
Wasn't an issue in Uncharted 1, isn't an issue in Uncharted 4.
Take the split second of aiming to shoot enemies in the head
9/10 enemies die in one shot in every game in the series
Fancy Clown
Member
Enemies die quick as hell from body shots in 4 too, even compared to 2 where the enemies died fast already. Armored enemies are great too, they force you to move since you often times can't kill them before they reach you. People have this weird obsession where if enemies take a lot of damage it's automatically a bad thing, without considering the function for having such an enemy.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Lol no.
Lys Skygge
Member
Uncharted 2-4 had great mechanics (especially 4), but too many people sleep on UC1. The PS3 version is most definitely outdated, but the remaster version is fantastic to play! It doesn't motivate you to move throughout the battlefield like later games, but I found myself enjoying the combat quite a bit
WrenchNinja
Member
So how's mgsv's multiplayer doing
I've done moves like this on Hard and Crushing, FYI.
I'm having trouble believing you based on my experience with hard and crushing. He'd be dead on hard before he could even leave the rope. I'm sure if you widdle down the number of enemies to the point where there isn't always someone with a line of sight on you this stuff is possible, but until then being mobile isn't reliable. It feels like im fighting against how the developers intend for me to play.
Savage
I haven't reached the end yet on crushing and i have a feeling that the last big fights will be definite exceptions.
However, the general trick on Hard/Crushing is to use your stealth advantage to thin out the herd before you start pulling off acrobatics. You can see from the GIF above that only a couple of enemies are left. This gives you way more leeway.
Based on how i know the late encounters pan out, this approach might be entirely nullified.
Edit: and as lys said, in Hard/Crushing, timing is everything. Wait for your opportunity. Pick guys off. Then leap at the chance for acrobatics.
Well I would agree with you if you were talking about only Uncharted 4 but Uncharted 1-3 had the most annoying meat shields in all of video games. Tell me how it's okay to shoot a heavily armored grunt twice with an RPG and he is still standing? Then of course there is the fact that there are endless hordes of this type of enemy in the end of all the games. Uncharted 4 fixed this issue thanks god with it's excellent pacing and one shot kills with the RPG.
Lys Skygge
Member
I've definitely done shit like this on hard. You just have to look out for a good opportunity, which present themselves more than you think.
Messofanego
Banned
I wish the developers stuck to validating that more mobile playstyle when designing the harder difficulties because Crushing will often penalise you for moving around (or maybe devs didn't test the highest difficulties to still be fun). Sure they might try to flush you with grenades but often you can just move to the next piece of cover and get back to stop-and-pop. They tried to make it harder for Uncharted 4 Crushing by taking away the ability to throw back grenades. This is a contrast to a recent TPS, Quantum Break, where on the hardest difficulty, you are forced to be more mobile or you're dead and are made less vulnerable when moving around. While in Uncharted 4, you're more vulnerable to shots such as when rope-swinging (i.e. negating the cinematic action hero feel with bullets whizzing past him).
Look at Lys' post right above yours, and my last post 2 above that.
Lys Skygge
Member
I can't speak for crushing yet, but playing on hard, I've definitely been forced to move around a lot more than on my moderate playthrough. And unless every enemy is on my ass all at once, I rarely had much trouble rope swinging either. You just gotta pay attention for an opportunity to present itself.
I love the Uncharted series' gameplay. As of now, they're my favorite shooters of all time. I love the "puzzle" nature of the arena battles throughout, especially in 1-3. I felt like Uc4 lost that quite a bit and so as of now I'm not as high on the combat as I was with the previous ones, but I have yet to do my crushing run. That might change things. With 1-3 I always felt like each encounter was highly designed and mapped out unlike a lot of shooters where it felt like they just dumped shit on you. I felt like I had to map out where I was going and what to grab and who to prioritize and take out while moving around. My first play through of Uc4 so felt more like a dumped horde than the first three games, unfortunately.
I feel like I had the exact opposite experience. I loved Uncharted 4, but I liked the balance and shooting gameplay in 1-3 a bit more. I also feel like I had more "meat shield" moments in 4 than the others. I remember some of the armored enemies still dying with a grenade or something big, but in Uc4 the big guys literally took 4 grenades and some shots to take down. I feel like part of it is that 1-3 get you into the swing of combat so I was a lot better and getting those headshots and downing enemies quickly but I didn't really get the full feel of combat in Uc4 until the last set piece battles in the entire game.
I feel like I had the exact opposite experience. I loved Uncharted 4, but I liked the balance and shooting gameplay in 1-3 a bit more. I also feel like I had more "meat shield" moments in 4 than the others. I remember some of the armored enemies still dying with a grenade or something big, but in Uc4 the big guys literally took 4 grenades and some shots to take down. I feel like part of it is that 1-3 get you into the swing of combat so I was a lot better and getting those headshots and downing enemies quickly but I didn't really get the full feel of combat in Uc4 until the last set piece battles in the entire game.
This right here is what made the game go from week one to a sale half price down the road buy.
Is the same fucking problem TLOU has, incredible gunplay but so few times to put t hose mechanics in use.
Jeez ND put some horde survival mode in your games please god damn it.
I was disappointed seeing the stealth and melee mechanics in UC4 being a step back from TLoU. I thought they'd finally get away from having a dedicated cover button and sticky cover mechanics which can and will screw you over at some points. In fact, the only combat related mechanic UC4 has over TLoU is the traversal, everything from stealth to gunplay feels weaker.
I'm playing on Crushing now and the fights are definitely approaching puzzle-like Uncharted 2-tier for me
Also the big guys in 2 still definitely took 3-4 grenades
Another person who thinks Naughty Dog's games are third person shooters.
(Hint: They're not.)
You're right about horde mode though. I think that will be added in autumn with free the co-op update
autoduelist
Member
I just beat the game on crushing. It was my first playthrough. Some of the later battles are truly soul crushing. While I -could- get away with some fancy stuff, I often didn't because death came so easy that it wouldn't be worth spending the time 'thinning the herd' and such to get fancy, accidentally die, and then have to do it again. Much safer and saner to just find the safest place to stay [permanent cover plus place to dodge grenades] and get to the next checkpoint.
Glad I beat crushing -- will be much more 'fun' on hard, though.
I will never forgive the ninja-like enemies that sprint at you and grapple you.
Glad I beat crushing -- will be much more 'fun' on hard, though.
I will never forgive the ninja-like enemies that sprint at you and grapple you.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
If you don't like it you suck apparently.
He's talking about the fact that you can pop someone with a head shot and they can keep firing at you. That's what a bullet sponge is. Low recoil, flinch, and then stand and keep firing. That doesn't have to do with skill really..