-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
'I really regret my vote now': The Brexit voters who wish they'd voted to remain
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
- Status
hydrophilic attack
Member
Some fun statistics on those: 66% people who left school at 16 voted for Leave. 71% of those with university degrees voted to Remain.
Whoops, I guess you shouldn't have increased university tuition fees now Dave, would you? It's incredible how this man played himself
Yes, they quite accurately predicted all the stock markets would lose quite a lot of value and give the possible start for a recession. You seem to be mixing up economists with poll predictions. Economists don't make those.
Let's forgive him for that. The people most affected by that were still in the Remain preference group.
You do know there is a difference between economists and pollsters right?
A ton of American companies and Banks are headquartered in London. They will simply have no choice but to move a good portion of their operations to the continent.
Those would be pollsters though, not economists.
ClosingADoor
Member
Economist don't do referendum predictions.
We really going the way of "what do experts know"? If this continues, I really, really fear for future elections and decisions made by the people.
Not a surprise that you believe "no one knows" what will happen (not true) when you don't even seem to know what economists do.
He pulled a Cersei Lannister.
clay_ghost
Member
I am pretty sure that there are also some who voted for reminds that are not fully aware of what they are voting for as there are who voted for Leave . Its easy to find those who regretted after any kind of voting :| I know GAF is mostly with Remind but Leave won fair and square IMO, both side have their reasons and as an "outsider" (I know this will affect the world but saying this as someone not in EU) i respect the majority vote.
ClosingADoor
Member
The Leave campaign is already backtracking on promises made. They did not win fair I think.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Stallion Dan
Member
Impossible to backtrack when we haven't left and thus cannot even begin to do any of the promises.
brochiller
Member
They said they were lies.
I expect similar numbers the day Quebec eventually separates from Canada. Uneducated poor and ignorant masses being fooled by a few elites with the usual "they took your jobs, ruined your your economy and destroyed your culture". Oh well.Some fun statistics on those: 66% people who left school at 16 voted for Leave. 71% of those with university degrees voted to Remain.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
It's possible to acknowledge a majority vote while criticizing it. As an American, I am familiar with a culture in which people are conditioned to see the result of a democratic vote as a practically religious thing. The vote is the final arbiter of truth, morality, and justice.
Which rationally, is crazy; just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it good or true. It's why there's an electoral college in the US in the first place. To deal with the conflict between people having the right to a vote, and the possibility that a bunch of people may make a terrible decision that could harm everyone.
This is especially clear on close votes where there's nothing resembling a significant majority.
Which rationally, is crazy; just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it good or true. It's why there's an electoral college in the US in the first place. To deal with the conflict between people having the right to a vote, and the possibility that a bunch of people may make a terrible decision that could harm everyone.
This is especially clear on close votes where there's nothing resembling a significant majority.
Lol. Anyone who works in the financial markets would have been able to tell you how the stock markets would react in the days after Brexit happened. It's not rocket science. What people don't know is what would happen a year from now.
Lol guys.
https://next.ft.com/content/14e323ee-e602-11e3-aeef-00144feabdc0
There is a huge body of empirical research that proves economists can't forecast shit.
I speak to economists and also read what they write very regularly as part of my job. You really believe these guys don't try to forecast the results of the referendum and build those forecasts into their models?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-24/here-s-how-likely-banks-think-brexit-is
Don't get me wrong. I have plenty of respect for what economists do but the fact is, the global economy is far more complex than what our current understanding makes it out to be. There are far too many moving parts to it which makes it very hard for anyone to fully comprehend and hence, forecast. Till this day, no one even knows for sure what really caused the Great Depression.
I mean, to really believe the things you're advocating for, you kinda have to ignore the idea that people can vote while not full understanding the consequences for what they vote for (or alternatively, you believe that people are entirely rational when making voting (or purchasing) decisions)... and that people can't be manipulated against their self interests.
Not everything should be left to a vote - this is a clear example of something that shouldn't have occurred... but it did and now we're all suffering for it. Especially the numbnuts that put it up for a vote in the first place.
Important constitutional issues should absolutely be put to a vote.
They use forecasts based on polling.
The idea that "no on knows the counterfactuals" in modern economics is bullshit. People just want to pretend the world is going to do what they want it to do.
Knowing what to do is often hard. But we sure as hell know what not to do.
Monocle
Member
Even when a huge portion of the public is uninformed or misinformed?
Slurpy2k20
Member
So, can you list ONE of these well-thought out, sane, objective reasons? I literally have not found ONE. So please, elaborate on this "good reason" that you claim so many people had. If not, then I have no problem categorizing them as the above.
ClosingADoor
Member
Yet they are doing that by having major figures saying immigration probably won't stop by the amount promised during the campaign and money not going to the NHS. You'd think now that Leave one they would come out and say "we will do everything possible to arrange that", yet they are already trying to downplay their responsibilities.
We are not talking about forecasts. We are talking about the fact that when you leave the EU, you get a negative impact on your economy. People might disagree on the level of impact, but there is no discussion about whether they is an impact.
This is also very different from predicting things. It is very hard to predict a financial crisis and when it comes, because you don't have the data. In this case, there is a clear option what is happening: you either leave, or you don't. And then you can calculate the possible impact of that.
Just writing off all the companies and people who have done the numbers and said it would have a large negative effect is irresponsible.
It would be like having the far majority if economists and politicians in 07 saying: "Watch out, there is a crisis coming!" And then ignoring them. It is not the same as predicting something, it is about analyzing the probable impact of a known event.
Ok, so you don't trust the economy to people who are experts in economics, instead you trust.....whom exactly?
Could stop trusting doctors when you get sick, we still don't know the cause of many diseases.
And you know this because this was stated in the article I posted or are you just assuming?
Just like how politicians and regulators know that bailing out the big banks in 2008 would create a giant moral hazard (that still plagues the economy till today) but went ahead and did it anyway?
Just like how the US government know that not reducing the budget deficit and selling more and more debt to the rest of the world would create a giant issue for the world economy many years from now but went ahead and did it anyway?
Just like how the Japanese central bankers know that QE is nothing but printing money to monetize their super massive external debt and would likely be extremely inflationary for the Japanese economy years from now still went ahead and did it anyway?
You sound so sure of yourself about what is the thing that people should not do when clearly politicians and experts have no clue themselves most of the time.
ClosingADoor
Member
If you know all these things, then others do as well, yet chose to ignore it. That is different from not being able to predict it. You are comparing apples and oranges here.
My point is, the near-term impact is clearly negative and not hard to predict but beyond the next year or two and when the separation is fully implemented and all exit strategies are in place, no one really knows what the UK economy would look like. The economists that tell you they do are either lying or delusional about their own capabilities.
Pure conjecture.
Yes, they did TARP anyway because we know the alternative was worse. How did they know the alternative is worse? Because every time a country does the Austerity shit in response to an economic crisis, things go very badly. Every time.
You act as though these governments are actually acting w/ good information or with informed parties. They're often not. They're often full of know-nothing politicians responding to know-nothing voters concerned primarily with making themselves feel good, giving hand-outs to their base and winning reelection. Politicians love printing money like candy and causing inflation - there's your Moral Hazard- they do all the crap, steer the car into the ditch, and leave it to other people to fix when they're gone.
Cameron's doing just that right now.
This is why, year after year in the US, guys like the Pauls whine and cry about auditing the fed and making other changes. And every year, they don't get to. Why? Because making the Fed responsive to populist sentiment is bad. They have to do unpopular things, because people are ignorant and incapable of actually understanding the subject, in the same way many Judges issue terrible rullings on patents, sexual assault, trade, etc., because they don't actually understand the subject they're talking about.
The EU was also warned about the Euro causing problems with Monetary policy for a disparate group of nations with radically different needs, but they went and did it anyway, and now face the consequences.
You act as though these governments are actually acting w/ good information or with informed parties. They're often not. They're often full of know-nothing politicians responding to know-nothing voters concerned primarily with making themselves feel good, giving hand-outs to their base and winning reelection. Politicians love printing money like candy and causing inflation - there's your Moral Hazard- they do all the crap, steer the car into the ditch, and leave it to other people to fix when they're gone.
Cameron's doing just that right now.
This is why, year after year in the US, guys like the Pauls whine and cry about auditing the fed and making other changes. And every year, they don't get to. Why? Because making the Fed responsive to populist sentiment is bad. They have to do unpopular things, because people are ignorant and incapable of actually understanding the subject, in the same way many Judges issue terrible rullings on patents, sexual assault, trade, etc., because they don't actually understand the subject they're talking about.
The EU was also warned about the Euro causing problems with Monetary policy for a disparate group of nations with radically different needs, but they went and did it anyway, and now face the consequences.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
I don't genuinely thing there's a chance that Trump gets elected in November.
However...
People need to look at this and realize that you can't cast a protest vote or stay home or cast a vote just to be contrarian or as a joke or whatever, "because everything will be fine and my vote doesn't matter anyway."
Your vote determines the outcome.
However...
People need to look at this and realize that you can't cast a protest vote or stay home or cast a vote just to be contrarian or as a joke or whatever, "because everything will be fine and my vote doesn't matter anyway."
Your vote determines the outcome.
Christ, no wonder we kicked their asses in the Revolutionary War.
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
Seems very fake.
Ploid 3.0
Member
"I thought it was a similar vote as liking on Facebook. I just wanted to be different." (not a real comment)
Sounds like something skynet would say...
Sounds like something skynet would say...
psynergylover
Member
LOL!! I laughed way harder than I should've
especially the "Zombees"
OT: everyone who voted "leave" and now regrets get zero sympathy from me, y'all hold this "L"
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Between Australia's musical chair act to pick their leader, the United States choosing Trump as the Republican nominee and England voting to shoot themselves in the foot, I gotta say Canada has got a lock on the award for the Smartest Country in the Anglosphere this year. Our competition is basically New Zealand and the various countries that make up the Carribean now. Feels good man.
Yup, that was most definitely the missing Children of Men prologue.
"What do you think shut the border means?
SHUT
THE
BORDER
Therefore
No one can go in!
No one can go out!"
of course it is
Well he's not that far off, as soon as Article 50 is invoked there will be a negotiation period of two years which most likely will be extended considering how much needs to be negotiated on.
During that time the UK remains part of the EU.
LordRaptor
Member
Storm Raider
Banned
affleck1981
Member
This is what worries me the most - I think the next GE will have parties doubling down on lies and misinformation. It has worked, it is divisive and it erodes any trust anyone has left in politicians.
User Name Here
Member
We are already dead.
Unrelated, but I just wanted to add that this link is so terrible and can't be labelled a truly reliable source. I haven't read the actual references but the text itself is really sub-standard for a scientific report, the least problem being a lack of stating the sample sizes the stuff is supposedly based on.It sickens me that there are some who voted the opposite because they didn't think it would make a difference. If your vote isn't made with your own knowledge belief and will, do NOT vote!
Good.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db53.htm
40 percent of teens have damned dental fluorosis and fluoridated water isn't helping. That and who pretty much says it doesn't make a difference in terms of preventing decay.
For years now, numbers for decay have gone down, even when water isn't fluoridated.
pigeon interrupted
Member
We deserved this. Playing off our reputation while internally getting more petty and lazy of mind.
Feels like SciFi, waiting for bodysnatcher scream. I kinda like it. The Remained
Feels like SciFi, waiting for bodysnatcher scream. I kinda like it. The Remained
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked