We don't need approval to hold a referendum.
If Westminster wants to deny the will of the Scottish people then they have a big problem on their hands.
Well. You could always run an unofficial one which will be ignored.
We don't need approval to hold a referendum.
If Westminster wants to deny the will of the Scottish people then they have a big problem on their hands.
Well. You could always run an unofficial one which will be ignored.
Ignored by who? The international community would back Scotland.
Unofficial or official, if Scotland votes to become independent it can't be denied unless there are troops on the streets.
Well. You could always run an unofficial one which will be ignored.
Where was that spirit during the first referendum, you Scots really disappointed me with that one.
Better get it right this time.
Worked well for the Catalans.
If you think it would simply be ignored and not a huge amount of pressure on the UK government then you are tripping.
Hardly the same thing at all, come off it now.
Apologies for dealing with actual facts. If Scotland wants to leave then they need Westminster approval. That is incontrovertible and not debatable.
It's exactly the same. It's another unofficial referendum.
Worked well for the Catalans.
Thank you for Scottish independence. #BrexitIn5Words
Good news for you is Westminster will cave considering their campaign against Scotland was about staying in the EU (lol, backfire), and the SNP manifesto was allowed to exist with the exert about a material change in circumstances.
The boys down South won't be able to ignore this one, you'll see soon enough.
The SNP manifesto is of no concern to Westminster. They can't control what is put into it.
Any real referendum is years away.
Catalonia isn't a country. Scottland is. Also the Catalans only had like 40% turnout (which isn't enough looking at Montenegro as precedent).Worked well for the Catalans.
Catalonia isn't a country. Scottland is.
Scotland hasn't been a separate state since 1707.
Apologies for dealing with actual facts. If Scotland wants to leave then they need Westminster approval. That is incontrovertible and not debatable.
It's exactly the same. It's another unofficial referendum.
That list is not even full.Incontrovertible you say? Challange accepted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_declaration_of_independence
Check out a couple of the countries on that list, now members of the EU.
While a Westminster approved referendum is the preferred option, it is not the only option. Debate away.
I don't think it will be as far away as you think Scotland will want to leave before the uk leaves the eu so they can argue that they haven't left the eu the rest of the uk have.The SNP manifesto is of no concern to Westminster. They can't control what is put into it.
Any real referendum is years away.
Good news for you is Westminster will cave considering their campaign against Scotland was about staying in the EU (lol, backfire), and the SNP manifesto was allowed to exist with the exert about a material change in circumstances.
The boys down South won't be able to ignore this one, you'll see soon enough.
Incontrovertible you say? Challange accepted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_declaration_of_independence
Check out a couple of the countries on that list, now members of the EU.
While a Westminster approved referendum is the preferred option, it is not the only option. Debate away.
Can delay it near forever though. First thing will be to say holding one now when fear of unknown and panic isn't wise and need leave EU first, then will be time for UK to adapt to non EU and things to settle so people can see benefits of it before deciding, and if EU getting shaky with other referendums then even more delays because we'll need see how that goes first.
They can try but if Sturgeon gets some sort of concrete greenlight from the EU that Scotland will at least be negotiated with if independent the folks up here are going to be pushing for it sooner than later.
Pissing off the Scots with the answer of "We're not letting you hold it yet because... reasons" is not going to go down well.
Another thing is we have no clear idea of the level of public support for another referendum.
I'll give you that, it's all anecdotal for now, but there is support. How much? Up to the SNP to analyse and try and show in their case for indyref2.
You can't really just say Scotland woke up on Friday and went, "62% in favour, 100% coverage... ah fuck it, let's just jog along with what the English and Welsh want."
Agreed. iirc Sturgeon did want 60% of public support for another referendum before calling for it. How you gauge that I am unsure. Which poll do you go with? I saw one pre referendum that had support at 32%.
I saw another from Kantar that said if UK left but Scotland voted to stay, would you still want independence. 56% said no to that.
Scotland wants to follow the footsteps of little brother "the colonies" in leaving mama. We support you Scotland.
I think we should at least wait to see how the UK leaving pans out before calling a referendum. We will likely have to have a physical border between the two countries so we should definitely see how that works out in Ireland beforehand. I'm angry about this result no doubt but we should not be making a knee jerk reaction and make a bad situation worse.
Another thing is we have no clear idea of the level of public support for another referendum.
There is a clear level of support for the SNP how where elected on a manifesto that included another referendum.
They have a massive majority, there is a mandate.
You may have Unionist sympathies but the SNP and the majority of voters don't.
There is a clear level of support for the SNP how where elected on a manifesto that included another referendum.
They have a massive majority, there is a mandate.
You may have Unionist sympathies but the SNP and the majority of voters don't.
Voting SNP doesn't automatically suggest someone wants a referendum, no more than me voting Sinn Fein and wanting a United Ireland.
Voting SNP doesn't automatically suggest someone wants a referendum, no more than me voting Sinn Fein and wanting a United Ireland.
I moved to South Ayrshire from South Lanarkshire this year. Little did I know Ayrshire was one of the few places that just voted Tory in the GE. Always been a stronghold here.
Hang about mate. Just noticed this. Run it by me again please.
Which Ayrshire council voted Tory at the last General Election? As far as I'm aware, every single one voted SNP.
And are you sure you're not thinking about the Borders when you talk about a Tory stronghold? Because I've lived in Ayrshire my whole life and this is the first I'm hearing about this.
TORY John Scott upset the odds to fight off an SNP surge on a night of election drama in Ayr.
Scott, 64, clung on to his seat with a majority of 750 votes against Nationalist challenger Jennifer Dunn.
The victory extends his 16 year stay in Holyrood.
The SNP candidate had entered the race as bookies' favourite but failed in her bid as a record turnout of 61.3 per cent cast their vote.
Full results (Ayr)
Jennifer Dunn (SNP) - 15,433
Brian McGinley (LAB) - 5,283
John Scott (CONS) - 16,183
Robbie Simpson (LIB DEM) - 716
South Ayrshire...
Oh you're talking about the Scottish Elections this year? I thought you said General Election, which is where every Ayrshire council returned an SNP candidate.
Anyway, my point still stands. One Tory MSP from Ayr doesn't make the whole of Ayrshire a Tory stronghold. It's not.
And they'll make the English pay for it!Looks like Hadrian's wall will be getting an upgrade.
Hold on are you guys trying to do a re-vote of sorts or something?
This confuses me
Yeah sorry that was my mixup. Just recently moved here
No worries. It's just, as you'll understand, damn near everyone I know and all our families going back years are working class die-hard Labour. A lot of us have switched to the SNP now, but the Tories?!...
As an outsider looking in, this entire situation has been so fascinating to follow.
So if Scotland leaves, do you guys still consider yourself a part of the Commonwealth ala Canada, Australia, India, Jamaica and New Zealand or are y'all gonna tell us all to go fuck ourselves as well? I can't imagine you'd still want to be associated with England in any way following the recent Brexit debacle.