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German anti-migrant party projected to be 2nd, 21% of the vote in regional election
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Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
And people say Germany is idiot-free.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
White nationalism gaining prominence in Europe? I am shocked!
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Only idiots would say that.
Or maybe there is a genuine issue there what needs addressing. Putting our heads in the sand and calling everyone idiots or ignorant won't help imo
Haunted
Member
I's tempting to say "it's just MeckPomm", but this is clearly indicative of a larger trend.
The scary part is that the AfD siphoned their votes almost equally from all other major parties across the political spectrum, from Die Linke (left) to the NPD (basically neo-nazis), along with a healthy heap of new protest voters.
Neat interactive graphic showing the differences between 2011 and 2016 in terms of gains and losses: (scroll down a bit)
http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2016-09/mecklenburg-vorpommern-landtagswahl-waehlerwanderung-afd
The scary part is that the AfD siphoned their votes almost equally from all other major parties across the political spectrum, from Die Linke (left) to the NPD (basically neo-nazis), along with a healthy heap of new protest voters.
Neat interactive graphic showing the differences between 2011 and 2016 in terms of gains and losses: (scroll down a bit)
http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2016-09/mecklenburg-vorpommern-landtagswahl-waehlerwanderung-afd
Whoever said that is an idiot.
Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
I wholeheartedly agree.
Super_Cobra
Member
Well said. I mean how many refugees has Germany taken in? How many are already working and contributing to the economy? How many are still dependent on the government to survive?
This is a lot on the tax payers.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
What was the turnout? I'm not too worried since they still lost to SPD, and it seems like CDU is still on track to win in 2017.
Says who.
Super_Cobra
Member
Lmao I was waiting for this.
Perfect.
His Majesty
Banned
I agree. Most of these votes for AfD are protest votes against the handling of Merkel's refugee crisis and have nothing to do with the internal politics of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.
There is no viable alternative on the right side and now AfD is siphoning in all those disillusioned voters.
Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
You know who
Point still stands since the AfD offers zero solutions and just feasts on the fears of the people like most populist parties do. It's a fucking shame really.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Doesn't make people voting AfD not xenophobic morons.
His Majesty
Banned
Imagine you are a German voter. You heavily disagree with Merkel's handling of the refugee crisis. Who do you vote for?
Serious question to GermanGAF btw. Can't imagine such a person voting for CDU/SDP, Die Linke or The Greens.
That's a pretty narrow minded take on a bigger problem they face.
Die Partei
CSU if you live in Bavaria.
And yep, that's a huge part of it. If you are against the Euro, critical of the EU or the way Germany handled the refugee crisis, who do you vote for? There are huge parts of the population that are atleast one of these things and not a single one of the established parties fits the criteria.
In other countries you would probably go conservative, maybe liberal, but Germany's history is different. The CDU and FDP were a driving force behind the European process and Germany's integration into the west. These are basic principles of these parties.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Not a German voter, but I disagree with the handling of the refugee crisis by Merkel. It was a mistake. Doesn't make the AfD's "solutions" any more realistic or rational though. Blind populism and unrealistic wishes are pretty much the modus operandi for the extremes of all parts of the political spectrum. Protest voting has its merits, however, but the AfD's views are simply odious.
WorriedCitizen
Member
After the reactions yesterday from the other parties i'm convinced that AfD will gain even more votes. Polls showed that AfD gained voters from all parties across the board so everytime these voters get vilified and ridiculed in the most childish ways it's a vote that will never come back. This time a lot of people voted out of protest, next time they will vote out of conviction. As one columnist wrote it's absolute madness how the old parties deal with this situation.
Yeah, but the FDP, while criticizing Merkel, is still in favor of taking in refugees and, for instance, wants to give them faster access to the job market.
https://www.fdp.de/position/fluechtlingspolitik
That's not really what the majority of AfD voters wants. Generally speaking, many of them seem to be in favor of more government in all areas and expect government to solve all their problems (which they fear will be exacerbated because of the refugees), which is the opposite of what a liberal party like the FDP promotes.
The biggest proof that Germany isn't idiot-free.
They have a social media god though: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1155198164553859&id=366343133439370
Yes, but they are for a far more stricter control for all other immigrants. Which is a far more rational and realistic position than refusing help to people fleeing for their lives, which is untenable.
Christopher
Member
This kind of name calling and not addressing the situation is a sure fire way to let the right win.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Letting refugees work is pretty key for helping them settle in and to contribute to society, though. May well be unpopular in some circles but if immigrants work I don't care, as many migrants can come in as they damn well please if they're coming in for work. I'm very supportive of EU free movement. So is the AfD a socially right wing and economically leftist party like Front National or something? Because more government intervention isn't what a traditional right wing party would want, I think.
Admittedly a tough one. I am a German voter and I heavily agree with the way she handled the refugee crisis.
I don't think that their positions regarding illegal immigrants or rejected asylum seekers are that much different from the CDU's. They are selling it like that for PR reasons, though.
Same story in all of Europe, and also the US. People feel good by calling right-wing voters stupid, but it doesn't really help anyone otherwise. It marginalizes people and makes them dig in.
Like the FN, the AfD is a populist party. Meaning they just sell dreams to people, so their position depends on the peoples wishes (and is usually the opposite position of the current government).
Yeah, pretty much. Ironically, they started out as a economically liberal anti-Euro party, but it's unwarranted to still call them economically liberal at this point. At least that's not how voters see them.
The AfD is FDP on drugs when it comes to the economy. It's the thing that should be brought up all the time but isn't, because name-calling is easier.
No, not at all. Read their programme.
edit:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/so...m-streichen-kuerzen-abschaffen-a-1082252.html
http://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Die-AfD-taeuscht-die-kleinen-Leute-article17613376.html
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
but what if you disagree on a fundamental level? The right will eventually win, living on our own island won't solve the problems there are within and outside the borders.
Not German btw but we have our own AfD
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Look, I have debated with many UKIP people about the issue of free movement. I've tried engaging with their concerns, and challenging them where I disagree. I've provided them with a lot of research papers on why EU free movement has minimal impact on living standards. They still don't at least consider that they're overblowing this a bit too much. Let's not pretend that these people are all rational people. Some of them do act in a fashion that justifies the name calling, admittedly. Maybe you have too much faith in human beings.
BrokenIcarus
Member
The absurd thing is that there's only around 25k Refugees in MeckPom, it's really weird.
Yes, in part due to public backlash and because of the CSU, the CDU has shifted its stance on the whole immigration issue a bit.
But I answered your question, in which voting for the CDU wasn't an option because of the Merkel baggage, baggage the FDP doesn't have.
You'd think if that was true people would support ones that actually adressed the issue.
These kind of parties have no plans, no ideas, no actual thought out policies. All they do is being populist and spewing garbage people like to hear and pander to fear mongering.
I agree, Merkel has made a colossal political mistake that will lead to her loosing her job or otherwise the next 4 years will get pretty nasty with her still at helm:
like her political father-figure, Helmut Kohl, she wants Europe at all cost, but
the refugee crisis has shown us, that Europe does not want Germany Merkel behind the driving wheel. All those small peasant countries like Hungary, Austria, Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia are full of intolerant people because they did not want to obey Vict...Angela.
The writing was on the wall even before the refugee crisis started, see Pegida.
The us or them mentality won't help us dealing with the alarming right-wing trend in Europe. For Germany, it was Merkel's responsibility to make adjustments to her agenda and she failed at it, because the "oh yeah, Easter Germany always had a right-wing problem, but thankfully it's a minority" mindset has pretty much f...ed her now.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Like UKIP? They've been spewing out absolute garbage and stoking up anger because the government dares to look like they want to backtrack somewhat on EU free movement to do the economically pragmatic thing and stay in the single market, like all reputable economists and the US and Japan (Japan had to do a diplomatically unprecedented thing and openly say 'Brexit is dumb' spurred on by concerns from their businesses) tell us to do.
I actually have. As I wrote in the sentence after the one you quoted, I am aware that they started out as an economically liberal party. But despite the fact that they still have many of these positions in their program, it is is certainly not the platform that they are running on and it is certainly not what a majority of their voters (many of which, for instance, are unemployed) actually wants.
WorriedCitizen
Member
The irony is that AfD should have imploded by now. They had their fair share of severe inner party conflicts, scandals, stupid shit their members said but it's the other parties and media who actualy kept them alive by playing their part in a self-fullfiling phrophecy through their rhetoric and denial.
I'm sure they are still waiting for AfD to collapse any minute now hence they go on like that but my gut tells me it's not gonna happen. AfD will reach the Bundestag next year for sure and that gives them plenty of time to consolidate all while being even more in the opposition spotlight.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The OP suggests that this is being read as a referendum on immigration. I believe that, but the missing context is that the Social Democrats won -- what is their position on immigration? Because if they are similarly "open doors" as the Christian Democrats, then isn't this better read as a schism on immigration within the right? I would assume if it was a clear rejection of Merkel's immigration policies on their own, that the left vote would abandon Social Democrats for a fringe left party? None of the analysis presented thusfar treats the SPD victory as at all relevant.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I actually blame Merkel for Brexit, partially. She handed a ton of ammo to the far-right here (UKIP loved that kind of shit). A lot of anti-refugee sentiment is bigotry, but there are many legitimate concerns there like how do all these people settle in to society (and not all have particularly progressive views on human rights, especially those of women), how can they make a life for themselves in the European job market, and how tough will it be for the taxpayers to support their transition into wider society. Kinda like what Sweden used to do when they gave permanent residence automatically to Syrians without needing jobs or housing set up like everyone else does.
Who cares what they want to look like? That's a very different thing. They are a party for big companies and against the rights and securities of the working class in a way that we've never seen in Germany. Even the FDP would mostly like to adjust the social market economy, the AfD wants to get rid of parts of it. They should be called out in every interview for some shit they are planning, but we are stuck in this circle of name-calling for like two years now. And they love it, too.
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