Support NeoGAF

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Alright, it doesn't sound terrible. No O-Powers sucks though.


And people hated XY because of "mah postgame". SMH...

My opinion of XY is still largely unchanged, nobody asked Gamefreak to remove the huge headways that Gen VI made in making competitive more convenient. Consistency has always been a problem with Gamefreak, but now I think they've gone too far.

 

[Aleh]

So much negativity in this thread right now.
Sure XY had some convenient features, from EV training to the PSS, but damn was the game itself just bad. SM are bringing the focus back to what makes it fun to play, and I couldn't be happier even if there are a few annoyances in some of the mechanics

 

[DNAbro]

So much negativity in this thread right now.
Sure XY had some convenient features, from EV training to the PSS, but damn was the game itself just bad. SM are bringing the focus back to what makes it fun to play, and I couldn't be happier even if there are a few annoyances in some of the mechanics

Oh yeah I am way more excited for this game considering how much better it looks than XY. I'm going to take my time and enjoy the hell out of the game. The loss of competitive stuff is just kind of shitty especially when they are trying to push competitive more and more. It's a weird thing.

 

[MegaMelon]

So much negativity in this thread right now.
Sure XY had some convenient features, from EV training to the PSS, but damn was the game itself just bad. SM are bringing the focus back to what makes it fun to play, and I couldn't be happier even if there are a few annoyances in some of the mechanics

I agree that the main game appears to be much better which I'm happy about. But the main game takes about 20-30 hours to beat? After that, I've always spent at least 100 hours, sometimes 300 just on the competitive aspect. So it's a bit of a bummer that they've taken steps back with regards to convenience.

 

[Kyzer]

So much negativity in this thread right now.
Sure XY had some convenient features, from EV training to the PSS, but damn was the game itself just bad. SM are bringing the focus back to what makes it fun to play, and I couldn't be happier even if there are a few annoyances in some of the mechanics

I enjoyed XY despite its shitty single player because of the QoL features though...

Dont get me wrong Im still hype for this game but I thought it was going to be the Pokemon game to end all Pokemon games. 20th Anniversary game. An extra year to work on it. Same battle engine graphics, so even less that had to be worked on. I was like oh man theyre gonna give us the whole pie on this one...nope. Typical Game Freak. Its now an official meme.

Hopefully im totally wrong and there are features we don't know about or something...

No national dex seems super suspicious IMO

 

[Subtervotion]

I haven't played the games yet but I will say there are a few things I'm hearing about that are already kind of bad.

-EV training seems to be more time consuming
-Pokemon in this gen are SLOW
-No triple battle (my favorite competitive battle in the battle spot)
-Battle Tree sounds like Maison 2.0

 

[Garjon]

Curse of being a pure Grass type.

What makes it worse is that a huge number of Grass's potential targets have coverage moves to counter it with purely by virtue of the amount of weaknesses Grass types have. Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Poison Jab, Sludge Bomb and now fucking 80BP Leech Life are all TMs

 

[Starwolf_UK]

https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/797343460277755904

I'm lost for words.

(for those that don't get the screenshot)

Spoiler

Even if you breed regular forme Rattata their offspring are Alolan forme...but maybe a patch will fix it as after all nobody should have the normal versio...oh who am I kidding; since when has Gamefreak ever put out a useful patch

 

[Not75Drops]

I think at least one of the previews (Gamexplain?) said there were trainer rematches.

https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/797343460277755904

I'm lost for words.

(for those that don't get the screenshot)

Spoiler

Even if you breed regular forme Rattata their offspring are Alolan forme...but maybe a patch will fix it as after all nobody should have the normal versio...oh who am I kidding; since when has Gamefreak ever put out a useful patch

Is there a chance for each or is it 100% Alola forms? It's weird since even though there's no national dex, the regular forms actually have sprites and models in the Alola pokedex.

 

[Aleh]

https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/797343460277755904

I'm lost for words.

(for those that don't get the screenshot)

Spoiler

Even if you breed regular forme Rattata their offspring are Alolan forme...but maybe a patch will fix it as after all nobody should have the normal versio...oh who am I kidding; since when has Gamefreak ever put out a useful patch

This makes me think there might actually be a patch as the lack of National Dex and now this seem sorta connected... We can only hope

 

[Seil]

I think at least one of the previews (Gamexplain?) said there were trainer rematches.



Is there a chance for each or is it 100% Alola forms? It's weird since even though there's no national dex, the regular forms actually have sprites and models in the Alola pokedex.

You actually get to see most normal forms in game, because of stuff like Sightseer NPCs, even though you can't obtain them.

Also seriously I'm in the postgame and I've seen no way to rebattle normal trainers. The E4, sure, Morimoto, sure, stuff like that. And there are restaurants. But I'm unaware of any sort of Vs. Seeker type functionality in the game. If I'm wrong that's great, but yeah.

 

[MaximumSpider]

I enjoyed XY despite its shitty single player because of the QoL features though...

Dont get me wrong Im still hype for this game but I thought it was going to be the Pokemon game to end all Pokemon games. 20th Anniversary game. An extra year to work on it. Same battle engine graphics, so even less that had to be worked on. I was like oh man theyre gonna give us the whole pie on this one...nope. Typical Game Freak. Its now an official meme.

Hopefully im totally wrong and there are features we don't know about or something...

No national dex seems super suspicious IMO

Yup, everything here. Still looks better than both Gen VI games but...

 

[MrCookiepants]

You guys really need to calm down.

20+ Pokemon can auto-train in Pelago at a time, and it works while your system is turned off. The rate might be slow, but once you've leveled it up enough you'll be able to mass train Pokemon while you spend your play time doing more interesting things.

I see myself breeding a Pokemon and then dumping it in training while I move onto the next breeding project, or go online for some battles or whatever. Next day I can wake up to see my mons have made some nice progress.

Sounds a fuck of a lot better than repeating that crappy Super Training minigame.

 

[Zelias]

So much negativity in this thread right now.
Sure XY had some convenient features, from EV training to the PSS, but damn was the game itself just bad. SM are bringing the focus back to what makes it fun to play, and I couldn't be happier even if there are a few annoyances in some of the mechanics

Yeah the story looks great and I'm looking forward to playing through it. But it's going to make up a minority of the time I spend on this game. And it's super frustrating that iterative features are just removed or up-ended for no discernible reason beyond wanting to just change everything.

The gen6 games may have been average (XY) to terrible (ORAS) but they were the best games for competitive thanks to the many QoL changes and features they made, many of which have now been dialed back or removed.

 

[Koppai]

When do I get to trade Pokémon with myself? I want the other two starters lol!

 

[MaximumSpider]

When do I get to trade Pokémon with myself? I want the other two starters lol!

Apparently it's a long while before you get your starter in game so it'll be a while before you have all three on one save lol

 

[Seil]

You guys really need to calm down.

20+ Pokemon can auto-train in Pelago at a time, and it works while your system is turned off. The rate might be slow, but once you've leveled it up enough you'll be able to mass train Pokemon while you spend your play time doing more interesting things.

I see myself breeding a Pokemon and then dumping it in training while I move onto the next breeding project, or go online for some battles or whatever. Next day I can wake up to see my mons have made some nice progress.

Sounds a fuck of a lot better than repeating that crappy Super Training minigame.

If you were breeding on a serious level and using super training you were doing it wrong to begin with. Hordes, five battles, one move each, 250 EVs.

The fact we've gone from THAT to what we have now is the problem.

When do I get to trade Pokémon with myself? I want the other two starters lol!

When you get the Rotom Dex in its entirety. When rushing to get to that point it should take 30-40 minutes roughly, I speak from experience since I gave myself all three starters lol.

 

[13ruce]

Is wonder trade still in? That one got me so much legendary pokemon lol they probably are hacked though.

 

[Aleh]

The gen6 games may have been average (XY) to terrible (ORAS)

I found ORAS to be quite an improvement coming from XY actually, except a few glaring missing features (like the pokéblocks minigame, the battle frontier, the dumbed down safari zone, no trainer customization etc). What made it seem bad to you?

 

[Seil]

Is wonder trade still in? That one got me so much legendary pokemon lol they probably are hacked though.

We still have Wonder Trade, yes.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Looking forward to pre-Bank Wonder Trade again, actually.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/797343460277755904

I'm lost for words.

(for those that don't get the screenshot)

Spoiler

Even if you breed regular forme Rattata their offspring are Alolan forme...but maybe a patch will fix it as after all nobody should have the normal versio...oh who am I kidding; since when has Gamefreak ever put out a useful patch

How were these Rattata created though?
For all we know old gen imports will receive a flag during the import process that the game checks during breeding.

EDIT:
Though it would be odd that the game doesn't simply use the form indicator, but you never know.

 

[Zelias]

I found ORAS to be quite an improvement coming from XY actually, except a few glaring missing features (like the pokéblocks minigame, the battle frontier, the dumbed down safari zone, no trainer customization etc). What made it seem bad to you?

I don't like Hoenn.
No customisation as you mentioned.
No Emerald features.
Delta Episode was a glorified fetch quest.
Regional dex felt like a stepdown after XY. I loved the variety in that.

I got ORAS, and it was the first Pokemon game I got bored with and stopped playing without finishing the story. I had to force myself to finish it months later.

 

[Qurupeke]

Looking forward to pre-Bank Wonder Trade again, actually.

But the games have already been hacked, be prepared to receive unobtainable mythicals and shinies...

 

[MrCookiepants]

If you were breeding on a serious level and using super training you were doing it wrong to begin with. Hordes, five battles, one move each, 250 EVs.

The fact we've gone from THAT to what we have now is the problem.

Yes, I know. I'm just addressing people complaining over the lack of super training as an option.

Clearly Gamefreak felt that horde training was too effective. It SHOULD feel like there is some kind of effort or time investment to max out stats (why the fuck not, really. You only have to ever do it once for that Pokemon).

They've gone for a passive system so that it feels difficult to attain, but you don't have to do anything too tedious unless you're in a rush. In that case you have other options in Pokestands, vitamins and chain encounters.

I hear Pelago can be maxed out at level 8 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That would mean 32 EV's per hour at max speed. Leave a Pokemon in overnight and it should be fully trained. And you can do that IN BULK. I like the sound of it.

 

[Aleh]

Speaking of being able to re-battle normal trainers, I've just checked that old gamexplain preview video and they do say trainers automatically reset after a while. Anyone confirms?

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

the lack of new pokemon this gen the same as lastgen is annoying

 

[Kyzer]

Yes, I know. I'm just addressing people complaining over the lack of super training as an option.

Clearly Gamefreak felt that horde training was too effective. It SHOULD feel like there is some kind of effort or time investment to max out stats (why the fuck not, really. You only have to ever do it once for that Pokemon).

They've gone for a passive system so that it feels difficult to attain, but you don't have to do anything too tedious unless you're in a rush. In that case you have other options in Pokestands, vitamins and chain encounters.

I hear Pelago can be maxed out at level 8 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That would mean 32 EV's per hour at max speed. Leave a Pokemon in overnight and it should be fully trained. And you can do that IN BULK. I like the sound of it.

Where did you get this info about GF deciding hordes were too effective? Or is it just a gut feeling of yours?


Honestly poke pelago system does sound like it makes more sense as a game system to be train than battling hordes over and over...I did want that for a while...but overnight is a long time!

 

[Not75Drops]

You actually get to see most normal forms in game, because of stuff like Sightseer NPCs, even though you can't obtain them.

No I mean the actual Pokedex itself also has the regular sprites/models for Pokemon that have Alola forms. Since you apparently can't even breed regular forms in Sun/Moon, it's weird that they even bothered to put them in the Alola Dex, since the National Dex doesn't exist in the game. Unless you mean that Sightseers are able to be battled, then that would make more sense, but it's still pretty strange.

Also seriously I'm in the postgame and I've seen no way to rebattle normal trainers. The E4, sure, Morimoto, sure, stuff like that. And there are restaurants. But I'm unaware of any sort of Vs. Seeker type functionality in the game. If I'm wrong that's great, but yeah.

I found the part where they say it, saying that it's similar to Trainer's Eyes from ORAS where the trainers reset. It seems like they played the full game there as well.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Where did you get this info about GF deciding hordes were too effective? Or is it just a gut feeling of yours?


Honestly poke pelago system does sound like it makes more sense as a game system to be train than battling hordes over and over...I did want that for a while...but overnight is a long time!

I mean, it seems pretty obvious if they've nerfed EV training this hard. It's a much more reasonable assumption than "incompetence".

 

[Shadow Broker]

So that whole Wild Pokémon calling for back up was meant to replace hordes? I mean having any said Pokémon calling for back up 13 or more times would be easier then horde battles wouldn't it?

Do I understand this right?

Note: I never used horde battles. I always used super training.

 

[Azuran]

I wouldn't really say it's harder. Instead of summoning a horde, we'll be summoning rescue pokemon and taking them out in one long encounter until the stat is complete.

How the hell is that even better? You don't need to defend everything Game Freak does especially when it hurts the player.

So a cool addition is a mistake because it looks dumb when battling a few of the 800+ Pokemon?

I can't believe how petty and dramatic much of this community is.

It led to the removal of hordes, triple, and rotation battes. That's pic is just the icing on the cake. An addition is not "cool" when it actually affects gameplay options.

But hey, let's keep defending Game Freak and try to justify they're bad decisions even thought they have shown plenty of times they have no idea what they're actually doing.

 

[Fumpster]

Is it possible there might be an ability, item, move, etc. that makes the Call for Help mechanic more likely to happen? Maybe that could replace horde battles in a sense, though it'd still be a lot slower...

Maybe Pokerus works in Pokepelago as well to speed stuff up?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

So much negativity in this thread right now.
Sure XY had some convenient features, from EV training to the PSS, but damn was the game itself just bad. SM are bringing the focus back to what makes it fun to play, and I couldn't be happier even if there are a few annoyances in some of the mechanics

We could've easily had the best of both worlds here. They had the foundation in place.

And now I'm seeing that it's apparently impossible to breed non-Alolan forms in SM even if you breed non-Alolan parents together.

I hate being negative about a series I've spent so much time with, but this is ridiculous.

 

[Aleh]

It led to the removal of hordes, triple, and rotation battes. That's pic is just the icing on the cake. An addition is not "cool" when it actually affects gameplay options.

There are 4 trainer models and 4 pokémon models visible at once in Battle Royale. So no, that isn't the reason why they scrapped hordes. And if they really weren't able to put 1 more trainer model for triple battles, they could have just removed trainers from those specific modes. Let's not blame what (at least imo) is an unrelated feature

Is it possible there might be an ability, item, move, etc. that makes the Call for Help mechanic more likely to happen?

Yes, there is an item called Adrenaline Orb that does just that

 

[Zelias]

I hear Pelago can be maxed out at level 8 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That would mean 32 EV's per hour at max speed. Leave a Pokemon in overnight and it should be fully trained. And you can do that IN BULK. I like the sound of it.

If that's true, that's a least a decent pace. But I'm gonna wait for confirmation on that... plus details of how hard it would be to get to level 8.

 

[Seil]

No I mean the actual Pokedex itself also has the regular sprites/models for Pokemon that have Alola forms. Since you apparently can't even breed regular forms in Sun/Moon, it's weird that they even bothered to put them in the Alola Dex, since the National Dex doesn't exist in the game. Unless you mean that Sightseers are able to be battled, then that would make more sense, but it's still pretty strange.



I found the part where they say it, saying that it's similar to Trainer's Eyes from ORAS where the trainers reset. It seems like they played the full game there as well.

I knew what you meant lol. And yes Sightseers are a trainer class with normal form mons. Also since they're just forms of pokemon in the alola dex it makes sense to give them entries. Even megas get entries now.

Also right now I'm operating off the assumption that poke pelago islands all max at level 3. I'll be testing this when I have enough beans to level the EV island to 3.

 

[Kyzer]

I mean, it seems pretty obvious if they've nerfed EV training this hard. It's a much more reasonable assumption than "incompetence".

I wish I could agree...

 

[trixx]

At the very least add some more modes in online. Random battles where you get randomized teams. Special battles where you can play with only basic forms of pokemon, rental battles etc..

You play online and have to face against a bunch of hacked mons, just have random battles for people that don't care for the bs and would like to get online every once in a while.

Also tbh I'm not anti-hack I don't care if people hack I just have no interest in playing online with people that are using hacked pokemon

 

[Seil]

Also it's been days now and I haven't had any trainers reset... so I dunno what else to tell ya on that. Maybe I've missed something, I dunno, but I don't think I have?

 

[Puruzi]

There are 4 trainer models and 4 pokémon models visible at once in Battle Royale. So no, that isn't the reason why they scrapped hordes. And if they really weren't able to put 1 more trainer model for triple battles, they could have just removed trainers from those specific modes. Let's not blame what (at least imo) is an unrelated feature

Thank you, it's really crazy that people think the models are the reason these things are gone. Gamefreak just removes shit, it's literally nothing to be surprised about anymore.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

The Wild Reinforcement mechanic sounds pretty cool---turns out the stuff in the PokeDex about predatory Pokemon isn't just for show, sometimes when a Pokemon calls for help its predator will arrive instead and attack it. Seems Corsola will call Mareanie (the best way to get it I assume since it has a 1% appearance rate iirc) and Carbink will call Sableye, who will kill it.

 

[Aleh]

The Wild Reinforcement mechanic sounds pretty cool---turns out the stuff in the PokeDex about predatory Pokemon isn't just for show, sometimes when a Pokemon calls for help its predator will arrive instead and attack it. Seems Corsola will call Mareanie (the best way to get it I assume since it has a 1% appearance rate iirc) and Carbink will call Sableye, who will kill it.

LOL I didn't know about this but it sounds hilarious

 

[Azuran]

I mean IV breeding was always the more annoying o the two so I'm glad that we don't have to worry about that anymore.

Compared to Gen 6 it may take less time to make perfect mons as a result.

What? IV training has always been less time consuming than EV training a Pokemon.

There's absolutely no way it's going to be faster than last gen if they removed Hordes. Technically, it shouldn't take long to get a perfect Pokemon from breeding. On the other hand, killing 1000000 individual Zubats just to raise ONE stat is ridiculous, and that's not accounting for all the other Pokemon that might show up considering there's no Sweet Scent method anymore.

We could've easily had the best of both worlds here. They had the foundation in place.

And now I'm seeing that it's apparently impossible to breed non-Alolan forms in SM even if you breed non-Alolan parents together.

I hate being negative about a series I've spent so much time with, but this is ridiculous.

For fuck sake's Game Freak. All they had to do was IMPROVE on the additions from Gen VI not straight up fuck everything over for some forsaken reason only known to them.

I hate this backward company.

There are 4 trainer models and 4 pokémon models visible at once in Battle Royale. So no, that isn't the reason why they scrapped hordes. And if they really weren't able to put 1 more trainer model for triple battles, they could have just removed trainers from those specific modes. Let's not blame what (at least imo) is an unrelated feature


Yes, there is an item called Adrenaline Orb that does just that

Great, that makes it even worse then if they just removed the features for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

But hey, we now can remove the hat from our trainers and fight Red for the 3535th time so I guess that makes everything awesome! Pokemon has never been better so way to go Game Freak!

 

[Zelias]

The Wild Reinforcement mechanic sounds pretty cool---turns out the stuff in the PokeDex about predatory Pokemon isn't just for show, sometimes when a Pokemon calls for help its predator will arrive instead and attack it. Seems Corsola will call Mareanie (the best way to get it I assume since it has a 1% appearance rate iirc) and Carbink will call Sableye, who will kill it.

Oh man, reminds me of XY horde battles with Zangoose/Seviper. Those were brutal lol

The Sudowoodo/Trevenant one was also funny.

 

[Seil]

The Wild Reinforcement mechanic sounds pretty cool---turns out the stuff in the PokeDex about predatory Pokemon isn't just for show, sometimes when a Pokemon calls for help its predator will arrive instead and attack it. Seems Corsola will call Mareanie (the best way to get it I assume since it has a 1% appearance rate iirc) and Carbink will call Sableye, who will kill it.

It may be the only way to get Mareanie. I'm fairly certain only "slot 1" in the dumped encounter tables applies to normal encounters and the other 7 are involved in the call for help mechanic. That's what my testing last night points to, at least.

Edit: Here's my post discussing that
And the post that precedes that one

 

[Kyzer]

What? IV training has always been less time consuming than EV training a Pokemon.

There's absolutely no way it's going to be faster than last gen if they removed Hordes. Technically, it shouldn't take long to get a perfect Pokemon from breeding. On the other hand, killing 1000000 individual Zubats just to raise ONE stat is ridiculous, and that's not accounting for all the other Pokemon that might show up considering there's no Sweet Scent method anymore.



For fuck sake's Game Freak. All they had to do was IMPROVE on the additions from Gen VI not straight up fuck everything over for some forsaken reason only known to them.

I hate this backward company.


Great, that makes it even worse then if they just removed the features for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

But hey, we now can remove the hat from our trainers and fight Red for the 3535th time so I guess that makes everything awesome! Pokemon has never been better so way to go Game Freak!

Hey you keep the battle with Red out of this mess, it's actually one of the best things about this game!

 

[Subtervotion]

You guys really need to calm down.

20+ Pokemon can auto-train in Pelago at a time, and it works while your system is turned off. The rate might be slow, but once you've leveled it up enough you'll be able to mass train Pokemon while you spend your play time doing more interesting things.

I see myself breeding a Pokemon and then dumping it in training while I move onto the next breeding project, or go online for some battles or whatever. Next day I can wake up to see my mons have made some nice progress.

Sounds a fuck of a lot better than repeating that crappy Super Training minigame.

Yeah... but hordes took like 30 minutes for a whole team to EV train. Who is making a team, and then wants to wait an additional 24 hours to EV train?

It already takes a long time to breed if you have imperfect parents. Do you really want to wait even longer to use your team?

In ORAS, with 6IV parents, it takes me about 2 hours to breed/train a full team, depending on how annoying the pokemon are with HA and gender ratios, etc.

Now it will take days. Losing Horde battles is a pretty big deal.

 

[ionitron]

Silly question, but do we know any of the specifics about the Tapu's terrain abilities?

Like, I know that the website description says "the field will be turned into Psychic Terrain when Tapu Lele appears in battle," but is it only while they're in play, does it stack on top of weather, is it for a set number of turns like weather, etc.

 

[Not75Drops]

Silly question, but do we know any of the specifics about the Tapu's terrain abilities?

Like, I know that the website description says "the field will be turned into Psychic Terrain when Tapu Lele appears in battle," but is it only while they're in play, does it stack on top of weather, is it for a set number of turns like weather, etc.

Terrains last for 5 turns and can be stacked with weather. There's also items in the game that increase the duration of terrains.