That they've publicly only announced all first party titles to support it makes me think that very well is the case possibly after receiving developer feedback and such.
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TLOU PRO Patch 1.08 - Supersampling removed from all modes [Up: New DF video]
- Thread starter Jacob4815
- Start date
That they've publicly only announced all first party titles to support it makes me think that very well is the case possibly after receiving developer feedback and such.
I'm always monitoring the situation, if there are news I will update the topic... but unfortunately nothing to inform at the moment
I'm always monitoring the situation, if there are news I will update the topic... but unfortunately nothing to inform at the moment
I'm still keeping the tab open (and another on ND support forum). If there was something unified and external to ND support like a petition I would sign it. This was THE game I wanted to play with my fiancée over Christmas break and we are not able to get a 4K TV. I'm very disappointed and I'm contemplating taking back my Pro.
bryanee
Member
dragonzdogma
Member
I think they are complaining about those who have a pro but are playing on a 1080P TV,
while ND probably thinks that you should just get a 4ktv if you want to enjoy the game the way they intended it to be played?
IDK
Lol
It was intended to be played on a PS3 at 720p. It got a quick port to 1080p and an even quicker patch to 4K.
chromatic9
Member
Shame they can't give a quick explanation like we're working on it or Sony is working on system level downsampling. or we won't be adding it again ever so tough titty.
I'd have to imagine a better downsampling solution is being worked on. If Sony wants to sell more Pro's then it's worth doing while people look into buying UHD TVs in the coming year or two. Too many of them right now are laggy crap for gamers as well.
I'd have to imagine a better downsampling solution is being worked on. If Sony wants to sell more Pro's then it's worth doing while people look into buying UHD TVs in the coming year or two. Too many of them right now are laggy crap for gamers as well.
I posted here all the official accounts to contact:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226348624&postcount=1173
Guys, don't feed the troll
They removed all the topics linked in Neogaf, well-written and polite, but there are 3 threads left with many votes.
Maybe ND hates Gaf?
I posted here all the official accounts to contact:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226348624&postcount=1173
Guys, don't feed the troll
Also the spokeperson for ND, the one that announced and edited those blog posts.
https://twitter.com/ScottLowe
I posted here all the official accounts to contact:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226348624&postcount=1173
Guys, don't feed the troll
I just assumed he was a lost ND developer that was really eager to work on the patch but lost his way. Please lost ND developer, flip a bit that allows 1080p SS for us HDTV owners.
Negotiator
Member
It may just be optimism from my part, but I really don't think their silence means anything. As far as we're aware, they only have 1-2 people that have worked on optimising the two games for the Pro, when you consider that they've got Survival for Uncharted 4, an expansion and The Last of Us Part II in the works, I wouldn't expect there to be such massive synergy between all at Naughty Dog to be able to keep upto tabs with any possible work being done on a patch for their 2 year old remaster. I've never thought them to be that vocal unless it's to do with their most latest project, and even then it's only sparingly. Like I've previously said, there was no word on a fix for the framerate issues, there wasn't even any form of acknowledgement on it. I'm sure our voices have reached the right person/people by now, the only thing we can do is wait. These things tend to come out unceremoniously e.g. the framerate fix, Second Son's HDR fix etc.
The supersampling note is still present in the EU blog.
The edited only the US blog
https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...-4-and-the-last-of-us-remastered-for-ps4-pro/
The edited only the US blog
https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...-4-and-the-last-of-us-remastered-for-ps4-pro/
No, their solution to the problem was actually fixing it. And then limiting it arbitrarily to players with 4k displays.
Negotiator
Member
ND has a stream in an hour and 7 minutes:
http://www.naughtydog.com/blog/uncharted_4_survival_launching_next_week
Feel free to ask them in the chat...
http://www.naughtydog.com/blog/uncharted_4_survival_launching_next_week
Feel free to ask them in the chat...
Negotiator
Member
Your irony is uncalled for. My bad for trying to help out. I guess ND should ignore you.
ND chat is moderated.
I assume the results of the steam were nada?
StrongBlackVine
Banned
This is bullshit. It was an excellent port and easily one of the best remasters this generation. If you are going to shit up a topic you should at least avoid lying.
You're right and I agree with you.
But.. at least it's the proof that people keep voting and want hardly the fix, without the Neogaf pressure (we didn't link and approve these last feedbacks... but the first linked one in this thread reached more than 1000 votes in 2 days).
They removed all the feedbacks linked in this thread... I don't think it's a coincidence.
So if they thought that the original removed feedbacks were only a Neogaf request, and the voting was influenced... well, they were wrong. It's the most wanted fix of the Last of us story, without Neogaf.
are people even asking for the patch to be removed? surely people just want a patch 1.09 that puts the supersampling back in, on top of the modes they baited and switched them out for.
at the very LEAST, they need to put back the 30fps 4k supersampled mode. that shit was fine already, they have zero justifiable reason to remove it.
Yes, the top voted thread asks for exactly that. It isn't even in ND's hands anymore, once a patch is approved and distributed, there is nothing they can do about it except make another.
Nooooo! If they do that, I will cry bitterly. Because that would be the final death sentence for 1800p60 downsampled, the only mode I want. I don't want to be forced to play in 30 FPS mode, frame rate over image quality any time, but we could easily have both if they would just let us!
Melchiah
Member
Agreed. They should give us both, since they're also available for 4K users.
Good video about supersampling... Just to rub a little salt in our wounds.
https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=906EEPlB3Ao
https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=906EEPlB3Ao
It absolutely baffles me that ND would fix the performance issues at the higher resolution, and still completely remove supersampling for 1080p displays.
They still have the intermittently displaying shadows to fix, so I can only hope that they'll add an option for supersampling back in at that time.
They still have the intermittently displaying shadows to fix, so I can only hope that they'll add an option for supersampling back in at that time.
They never acknowledged the performance issues at 60fps on Pro or some of the glitches with HDR enabled at 4K but fixed them with this patch. This game is low on their priorities right now but I do expect they'll address it at some point.
My guess is that removing supersampling was the fix. Seems a quick & dirty fix so best case, it's temporary, worst case, ND don't want to put anymore resources into their TLoU Pro patch. I fear it's the latter as I suspect this "fix" wasn't done by choice but instead was a response to Digital Foundry's complaints that caused a fuss in the media.
Melchiah
Member
If it's indeed so, it's a shitty situation as it favors users based on their displays, and sends a message that those with regular HD displays aren't a priority for them.
If you'd just watched the newer analysis by Digital Foundry you'd have known it isn't a quick and dirty fix at all. They went through all the effort to make the performance at 1800p60 excellent, on par or better than the OG PS4 with 1080p.
And then they went the extra mile to cut off 1080p screen users from having any of it.
And then they went the extra mile to cut off 1080p screen users from having any of it.
JonathanPower
Member
Actually, people feel like ND is fucking with them because they did fix the performance issues in 4k and 1800p modes, so there really is no reason for not featuring the super sampling now. Also, as consumers they have all the rights to complain.
JonathanPower
Member
Does not make any sense. Supersampling was not present in native 4k or 1800p mode, so removing something that was never present can't be what fixed performance.
It doesn't make sense because you're mistaken about thinking TLoU:R on the PS4 Pro didn't have supersampling in version 1.07 that was removed by update 1.08. You do realise that's what this whole thread is about? Check out these videos.
This one contains Digital Foundry's finding that supersampling was removed by update 1.08.
https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8H0vOfIL0
This one explains what supersampling is.
https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=906EEPlB3Ao
I think their point is that the current 1.08 still runs at the same resolution as 1.07 on a 4k TV but is a solid framerate. So they didn't have to change the resolution to fix the framerate. Therefore they should still be able to support downsampling from 1800p to 1080p for 1080p TV owners.
Perhaps you're right but the common assumption, that supersampling is "free", is not actually true. I thought the same thing till I did some research. I'm not a game developer but I am a scientist that codes for a living (bioinformatics).
Supersampling requires rendering the game at a higher resolution, which TLoU:R still does in 1.08 for 4K TVs, but it then requires downsampling that information to output a 1080p image to send to a HD TV. This downsampling also requires computation and that's why it's not free. That's also why I think ND's frame-rate fix was to remove supersampling. Not a fix I like but that's what we've probably been given.
There was no difference between 4K and 1080p in performance on patch 1.07. Downsampling an image costs a fraction of a millisecond AFAIK, definitely not the reason to drop whole frames.
I know. What's happened sucks and I wish ND we're able to leave supersampling anti-aliasing (SSAA) for 4K mode as was, but what other explaination is there? That ND dislikes 1080p TVs so they removed all SSAA? That Sony made ND do it to encourage sales of 4K TVs at the cost of angering a lot of people? Or that ND needed a quick fix to the performance problem and that fix happened to be removing SSAA?
I don't know what the cost of the downsampling part is but to render a game at 30fps means an image needs to be produced in 1/30th of a second. According to this presentation by a developer named Tiago Sousa (http://iryoku.com/aacourse/downloads/13-Anti-Aliasing-Methods-in-CryENGINE-3.pdf), the time budget for anti-aliasing in Crysis 3 was only 2 milliseconds (1/500th of a second). They started using a technic called temporal AA that supersamples from past and present frames rather than trying to supersample each and every frame as it produced better results than FXAA but was "cheaper" although not quite as good as SSAA or MSAA. ND have a great implementation of temporal AA for Uncharted 4 (http://www.eurogamer.net/amp/digitalfoundry-2016-uncharted-4-thiefs-end-tech-analysis). If you're interested, this blog about temporal AA by a dev that's worked at Ubisoft, CD Project Red, and now Sony Santa Monica is a good read (https://bartwronski.com/2014/03/15/temporal-supersampling-and-antialiasing/).
Anyway, point is that if the budget for anti-aliasing is 1/500th of a second it'd only take five frames a second to exceed this limit and the frame-rates will have dropped from 60fps to 55fps. Most Pro games that are rendering in 4K don't use any anti-aliasing as the high resolution means it's not needed so on 4K TVs there's probably no AA while on 1080p TVs there's no longer SSAA but something else instead.
I sound like I'm supportive of what ND did but I'm not, just trying to figure out why they did it. I'm all for the return of SSAA to TLoU:R!
Always-honest
Banned
Still no reply from ND?
Well then. That love has certainly dropped to a below freezing point.
Well then. That love has certainly dropped to a below freezing point.
This is all irrelevant. The performance of native 4K@30fps was identical when running on 4K displays AND when supersampled. The performance was identical at 1800p@60fps when upscaled to 4K or supersampled at 1080p.
They addressed the performance for 1800p@60fps upscaled to 4K, which is an impressive feat, but they carelessly dropped supersampling, which as pointed out above, isn't performance affecting.
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