If there are no minimum coverage requirements, we will have skinny coverage plans for pennies again. Worthless but cheap.
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CBO score released on ACHA - 14 million - 2018 - 24 million more uninsured 2026
- Thread starter RastaMentality
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SparkleMotion
Member
Why don't people just get a job and make enough money to get health insurance? Why should I pay so that people can get handouts without working for it? /s
fredrancour
Member
ain't california's attempt just starting? i guess if any single state has the population to make the math work i guess this'll be the one. maybe it can ride the anti-AHCA wave for better PR
Yeah... Yeah, that makes sense.
Disagree, this needs to be done at a federal level to get the funding necessary... And in order to ensure proper leverage, nationalized insurance makes the most sense.
Also he added another $54 billion to the military which goes to all these defense contractors.
SolarPowered
Member
That bill right there is how you make riots happen.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Thats 24 million people that need to stop buying iPhones
old
Member
From Breitbart
He's already moving the goal post. He's admitting it's going to be worse in the short term. But trust him, eventually sometime in the future the when the marketplace is "fixed" everything will be good. Just tell your cancer "to hold off another 4 or 5 years. The marketplace needs time to fix."
Of course that will never come. Just like Brownback, who has lead Kansas into economic ruin with trickle down economics, those Job Creators in Kansas will show up any day now. It's been years and no sight of these fabled Job Creators, but trust Brownback, they are coming........eventually.......maybe.
He's already moving the goal post. He's admitting it's going to be worse in the short term. But trust him, eventually sometime in the future the when the marketplace is "fixed" everything will be good. Just tell your cancer "to hold off another 4 or 5 years. The marketplace needs time to fix."
Of course that will never come. Just like Brownback, who has lead Kansas into economic ruin with trickle down economics, those Job Creators in Kansas will show up any day now. It's been years and no sight of these fabled Job Creators, but trust Brownback, they are coming........eventually.......maybe.
mind you, one of the provisions in the bill is bringing back plans that don't cover anything useful at all. Such quality
Karsticles
Member
I think the ACHA is awful for a lot of reasons, but how many of that 14-24 million are people who never wanted healthcare but had to get it to avoid a fine? It seems to me that if 14 million people didn't want it before, and will drop it after ACHA, it's a bit disingenuous to frame the situation as people "losing" their insurance.
It isn't disingenuous. Their presence on the rolls and their premium payments are necessary to the whole thing. Even the republicans recognize this fact. Losing healthy people is very, very bad.
I'm sure they're going to agree with that when they voluntarily drop the insurance, get sick and die because they don't have the money to pay for healthcare.
Yep. That's exactly what will happen. Thank god the GOP was there to give them the choice.
Veritigo_X
Member
Man, this is probably the weirdest defense I've read for this yet.
Let's get a thread for Bernie town hall later tonight. You know he will go ham hammering Trump for lying about his promises.
If you can't afford the premiums due to increases and/or losing subsidies I would call that losing health insurance. Some of those people might be technically "voluntarily" losing coverage but honestly it amounts to the same thing.
It's still considered a "loss" because those people are losing healthcare and the market is losing those premiums. Regardless of whether they want healthcare or not, it's necessary for younger healthy people to pay into the system for it to actually work.
fredrancour
Member
insurance works by having large numbers of people paying into a system, even when healthy, so that the money flowing in can pay for the care of whoever needs it at any given time. expanding health care coverage essential means forcing everyone in society to be involved, whether via a mandate or tax revenue directly paying for a public option/single-payer system.
edit:also, yeah accidents and other unexpected care. if you didn't want health insurance, but then you go to the ER for some surprise health issue or accident, suddenly the system is facing the prospect of eating the costs of saving your life, which in turn would have to be baked into the costs charged for everything else. being willing to take your chances doesn't really make you immortal.
The point is even young invincibles can affect costs for everyone else. Car accident and they go to ER, don't pay on a half million bill, is one classic example. They are part of society, their health can affect society, hence they need to participate in insurance scheme.
Icebergslim
Banned
This is absolutely great news. I cant wait for millions of people to lose their insurance. Its to bad for the people that didn't vote for trump though. Its not untill this country reaches rock bottom that serious change can take effect.
All these old fuckers who vote Republican year after year need to learn there is a consequence for your voting ignorance. Have fun going into insurmountable debt at 62.
All these old fuckers who vote Republican year after year need to learn there is a consequence for your voting ignorance. Have fun going into insurmountable debt at 62.
Ryan is an idiot but the existence of the surcharge is a tacit recognition of the facts. It won't work and is stupid, but it only exists for that reason.
There are literally zero people that don't want healthcare. There are people that can afford it, people who can't afford it, and people who can afford it but have other priorities. Oh, and people who get it heavily subsidized by their employer instead of the government
The rejection of the ACA was not because people want to die when they get sick or because they think they can afford cancer treatment without any coverage. People who previously had insurance hate the ACA because prices went up. People who didn't, hate the ACA because the coverage is expensive and most plans have shifted to the Republican model of HDHP+HSA which doesn't help most people so they end up paying for nothing. People who could afford it but refuse to because "it won't happen to me" and they would rather buy other luxuries are just shortsighted, not suicidal. People who couldn't afford it received subsidies. Cheap businesses hated the ACA because healthcare is expensive and labor is plentiful so they don't want to cover their employees
None of these groups had the position of "who needs healthcare anyway?"
George Washington
Member
The vast majority didn't just get insurance because of the fine. The majority on ACA are getting tax credits. With those generous tax credits going away most of them will effectively lose coverage due to not being able to afford it.
Black Mamba
Member
FUCK THIS.
14 million people will lose it from MEDICAID.
7 million will lose it from EMPLOYER INSURANCE
2 million from the ACA Marketplaces
1 million from other.
And for the record, the 2 million losing from the ACA Marketplace aka non-group insurance will be old people losing insurance they NEED and WANT and being replaces by young, well off healthy people who currently pay the mandate fine instead of insurance.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Not that many, IMO. The penalty is easily avoided so long as your employer does not offer you a plan and the least expensive marketplace plan in your state exceeds 8% of your income.
I would guess that the majority of losses will come from Medicaid coverage being dropped and employers dropping plans.
Not true for most young healthy individuals. The "Penalty" was put in place to incentivize
such individuals to join and contribute to making the overall plan work.
http://www.npr.org/2016/08/21/490852980/the-young-invincibles-a-huge-hurdle-for-obamacare
NullPointer
Member
We can talk about how many of those people were forced to buy into insurance, but likewise I'd like to see how many of that group ended up seeing tangible benefits from having that coverage.
When you have it you tend to use it, which is great for preventative care. And those involuntary buyers still had a real safety net in case of problems.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
"Everyone Covered"
UnObtainium17
Member
Wow. I guess 24 million is the estimate if the economy went on its curreypace, hasn't collapsed or we did not experience recession from now till 2026? The way premiums are going, tax cuts on those who don't need it across the board.. i guess sick people can go fuck themselves? According to Ryan?
maabus1999
Member
Funny thing is the 330 billion in savings is coming from medicaid changes moving costs to states. Should read new 330 billion liability for state budgets...
You do realize it's saying that up to 24 million people who are currently insured will lose Medicade alone? That's not even taking things such as employer insurance into account. That alone is pretty fucking horrifying. People are going to die if this bill gets passed.
UnObtainium17
Member
Well shit. RIP poor states? That "savings" was misleading as fuck.
Black Mamba
Member
And it largely hasn't worked because the fine is still too low.
Most of the people getting insurance are doing it because the tax credits are worth it, not because of the fine alone.
The ACA markets still aren't young and healthy enough (but are getting better).
Angelus Errare
Banned
You literally just proved my point. Currently young healthy people are not buying coverage. Therefore they are not losing coverage. The vast majority of the people on ACA are older or sicker. The people that buy insurance to just avoid the penalty is small.
Icebergslim
Banned
#HeLies
Am I supposed to feel a certain way because they got conned. Nope dont care. Let this be a lesson to them. Democrats have been fighting for the social safety net for years. They didn't get the fucking memo. Oh well.
LegendofJoe
Member
No one WANTS healthcare. But at some point everyone will NEED it. That's why all of us should share the cost. And in the long run doing so lowers the cost burden for all because eventually everyone will get old and sick. When you're old the young will pay to decrease the burden on you. If you skimp out on paying when you're young you don't deserve healthcare when you're old.
They are explicit about it. Average premiums will decline because plans will get worse and older people will simply stop buying insurance because they can't afford it. Since insurance companies will be allowed to charge older people up to five times more than younger people, there's plenty of room to price out all older, sicker people while still lowering the premium for younger people.
Black Mamba
Member
To expand on this:
A 64 year old earning $26.5l will see a 750% increase which will be more than half of what they make in a year.
And that's the AVERAGE.
In a rural area, it will be worse.
In fact, there will be many places in rural America where your insurance costs will be higher than your wages.
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