Dice//
Banned
Concisely wraps this up.
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Original Ghost in the Shell director Mamoru Oshii defends ScarJo playing Major
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Concisely wraps this up.
He isn't the original creator.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would think Masamune Shirow's opinion would matter more.
But in the end, the problem with the underlying argument is that the movie does not exist, period, full stop, if you don't attach Scarlett as the lead before the first check gets written.
Good first point, but drudging up stuff that we have well moved past with John Wayne and so on, decades old and stuff we should move past at least, actually hinders his point. Should have stopped with the first statement, would have been fine, rather than reminding people about racist shit that really has no relevance to the point you're trying to make in the first place.
SapphiCine
Member
Nah, you seem to be outside reality. Art doesn't exist in a bubble, especially big budget films.
radios shipping overview
Member
Never mind that the entirety of the GitS franchise is explicitly political.
Art is not reality.
Creators can freely pick and choose which parts of politics they want to portray or which ideas they want to convey in their art. Art can inform or illuminate reality but is not contained by it.
Which isn't true cause she wasn't the first choice.
I suppose it's a good thing that was never my point, then.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't know what you're talking about, but unless the "first choice" you're talking about isn't an A-list Hollywood actress, the point stands.
Zoe
Member
Margot Robbie had only been in 2 Hollywood movies, neither as the lead role, when they were talking about casting her.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Why is it political for an Asian actress to play the main character?
Theonik
Member
He's not the creator of the original material so I'm not sure you can really use that angle.
Because the complaint is about 'whitewashing' the character that has absolutely nothing to do with the material but everything to do with real world politics.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I've been trying to find any details on where the studio offered Margot Robbie the role. From what I can gather, Margot was interested but they offered it to ScarJo.
Where are your sources?
hydragonwarrior
Member
I too agree that Scarjo was a good choice
You can't separate art from an obvious hollywood cash in on a popular foreign media franchise?
Let's not get too highbrow over this, not really the hill we want to die on in terms of artistic freedom
Zoe
Member
http://deadline.com/2014/09/wolf-of-wall-streets-margot-robbie-eyes-ghost-in-the-shell-828817/
"Early talks" that fell apart because of Suicide Squad.
Actually, I'd be willing to die on the hill of freedom of expression. Aside from life itself there is nothing more sacred.
He's making a Thermian argument to try to explain away a real-life systemic issue, which is basically not addressing the question people are actually asking and is the unrefined go-to shutdown of defensive nerds.
"Why are female warriors always designed so skimpy when it doesn't even made sense to have less armor?" "Because they get their power from their skin showing!"
"Why can't Bond ever be a black man one time, especially with the emergence of some prominent black British film stars?" "Because Bond has an uppercrust history!"
"Why the hell is Major white when this would've been the perfect opportunity to give an Asian lead a chance?" "Why not? She's a cyborg and cyborgs can be anything, including the prototypical Hollywood white woman!"
Using completely made-up shit to keep minorities out of jobs that are dignified is tired, yo.
"Why are female warriors always designed so skimpy when it doesn't even made sense to have less armor?" "Because they get their power from their skin showing!"
"Why can't Bond ever be a black man one time, especially with the emergence of some prominent black British film stars?" "Because Bond has an uppercrust history!"
"Why the hell is Major white when this would've been the perfect opportunity to give an Asian lead a chance?" "Why not? She's a cyborg and cyborgs can be anything, including the prototypical Hollywood white woman!"
Using completely made-up shit to keep minorities out of jobs that are dignified is tired, yo.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Your article is extremely vague. The title is Margot Robbie eyeing the role and that she's in "early talks". What is early talks? Are they proverbial courting her for the role? No. She's interested but the role went to ScarJo.
No where does it say Margot Robbie turned down the role because of Suicide Squad.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I understand that. I'm asking this person since they think it might be too political to have an Asian actress play the role.
It's also political to have characters always be white.
Zoe
Member
That's in follow-up articles.
The only group of people you can pander to and not have it be seen as political or agenda-driven is white people.
Wait what? Are you talking about me? I'm agreeing with Oshii that art must be free from politics, which is a part of reality. She can be played by an Asian actress or a white actress or a black actress or a male actress or whoever. It's art. It's not confined by reality.
So you feel nothing about the blatant discrimination against non white actors/actresses in hollywood not getting lead roles? Or are all casting directors just exercising their 'freedom of expression'?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Links? I'm sitting here Googling "Margot Robbie Ghost in the Shell" and all I'm getting is she's in early talks. I can't find any article or reputable source saying she was offered the role. You're not understanding that early talks isn't "offered the role".
Good thing none of those articles say she was offered the role.
http://screenrant.com/ghost-in-shell-live-action-movie-casting-margot-robbie/
http://movieweb.com/ghost-in-shell-live-action-movie-cast-margot-robbie/
http://deadline.com/2014/09/wolf-of-wall-streets-margot-robbie-eyes-ghost-in-the-shell-828817/
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/09/04/margot-robbie-to-star-in-ghost-in-the-shell-movie
http://www.thewrap.com/margot-robbie-in-talks-to-star-in-dreamworks-ghost-in-the-shell-exclusive/
Those are the big articles I can find. Being interested in a role or doing an audition doesn't mean you were offered the role.
Messofanego
Banned
Agreed.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Ok but do you see why people, mainly Asian Americans, are having a problem with ScarJo playing this role? Do you think this is problematic of a bigger issue? You can keep saying it's art but just being art doesn't absolve it from criticism. If a play decided to cast a white person to play MLK would you defend it?
Caddywompus
Member
Damn, he almost stuck the landing and put the issue to bed for this particular movie.
Zoe
Member
Are you new to Hollywood? Of course they wouldn't say "offered" if the negotiations fell apart.
There was zero mention of ScarJo until after Margot was out of the picture.
formasymphonic
Member
Basically his name and commentary are being used to placate/sway the existing GitS fanbase. Its to help them side step the various criticisms by helping them claim they are trying to be faithful to / respect the original
Discrimination is bad. Freedom of expression is good.
I need to know there was definitely unfair discrimination that goes beyond artistic choice that went into Scarlet Johansson's casting in this role before I join you, though.
This is an impossibility for two reasons.
1.) Art is the domain of human beings whose only frames of reference for their art are the real world and subsequently other human beings. For art to "be free from reality" is impossible, pretentious nonsense.
2.) Commercial art like Hollywood films are not passion projects defined entirely by single auteurs; they're huge corporate collaborations with tangible goals. Your shit isn't getting made if it doesn't conform to some real life popular trend, including whitewashing every damn foreign property someone gets their hands on under the ironically racist belief that white people just can't jive with seeing someone else have a chance for once.
Vincent Grayson
Member
All artistic expression is inherently political. You can't think of "political" as only meaning when someone specifically decided "I want to have a political message here".
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Killer Queen
Banned
He doesn't need to be considering how influential he is to GiTS as a whole.
Are you serious? So let me get this straight If I'm making a movie and the first person i want to approach is funny black man 1 but he is unavailable and I get funny black man 2 instead. That means that fbm1 wasn't my first choice?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Hollywood has a history of not offering prominent roles to minorities. That's just a fact.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You can put it this way and it makes sense but you still need something to support your theory other than, "this is what it looks like".
You say they "approached" her but it seems it was the other way around. Do you have any sources that say otherwise? Your condescending LMGTFY showed she was eyeing.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Demanding other people source your own argument or posting a LMGTFY in lieu of actually providing a source for an assertion is a pox on meaningful debate.
You can just say "I don't know," if you want.
I've seen nothing suggesting she was either offered the role or that the studio put any money into the license without Scarlett being attached. There are a million properties that have film options that don't go anywhere. You have to have a marketable lead or an inherently marketable franchise to make a megabucks movie like this.
Do you have any evidence to support the assertion that Margot Robbie was in fact the first choice and that the movie would have been made at a similar budget with Robbie attached to star?
You said the only reason this is even being made is scarjo.
Zoe
Member
Your problem is hanging up on "eyes". Only a few articles use that in the headline, the actual content of the articles uses "talks" which is two-way communication.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
OK.
What happened in these talks? Auditioning is "talks".
My work can be in "talks" to get business IE someone calls and wants a quote. Like... it's as substantial as you want it to be but you gotta have something concrete to say she was front-runner for a bit. (I know you didn't say front-runner but you get what I mean).
So... like... sources?
NHarmonic.
Member
Yeah. When we got to the political themes the rant became full shitty.
Suicide Squad is what happened.
The people complaining the loudest about whitewashing are not people in the existing GitS fanbase. The existing GitS fanbase has more important concerns with how this adaptation may be handled than the Major's perceived race.
Why not both?
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