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"People in Japan worship white people." Fascinating GitS Roundtable

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wandering

Banned
Well, yeah and that stopped. Then why didnt it stop in asia?

This is ridiculous, europeans love to tan and do everything possible to get a tan in the summer even if it means a fake tan. I guess I just dont get it

Because with the advent of the post-industrial society in Europe tanning became a sign of wealth as it meant you could take holidays instead of being cooped up in a little office.

Much of the industrial development in East Asia was relatively recent, so you still see holdovers from pre-industrial society.
 
I mean it's no real surprise.

There's a reason practically every japanese anime/manga or video game game protagonist is white.
 
Because with the advent of the post-industrial society in Europe tanning became a sign of wealth because it meant you could take holidays instead of being cooped up in a little office.

Much of the industrial development in East Asia was relatively recent, so you still see holdovers from pre-industrial society.

Which is so ironic when you compare it to why Americans tan – I think it just makes me look more fit than I actually am :)
 
I realize that completely, as it's why I don't put too much thought into Japanese comments on white washing, because they don't have a lack of representation like Japanese Americans do. My point was more about the seeming idolization of white people and where that comes from. That isn't because there's anything special about white people that allows them to fit into other country's standards of fame and beauty, it's simply because they're what's being pushed as the "standard" to foreign countries that consume American media. When that changes attitudes towards other races and their standards of beauty will at least start to change as well

Ok, yeah absolutely.

And also thinking on my previous post Steven Yeun could be an interesting counterfactual, in that I think he gained popularity in Korea due to his role on the walking dead, even though Korea has a developed entertainment industry similar to Japan...
 
Because with the advent of the post-industrial society in Europe tanning became a sign of wealth as it meant you could take holidays instead of being cooped up in a little office.

Much of the industrial development in East Asia was relatively recent, so you still see holdovers from pre-industrial society.

What about the lip injections?
 

Nabbis

Member
I can't tell if you're accidentally or intentionally missing my point. You seem very much caught up on "People from x country hate everyone who isn't from the same country"

What does hate have to do with it? You are the only person here having such notions.

My argument was that the problem is that a certain country and culture(US) controls a large amount of the media creation that a different culture conceives. The result is that the non-dominant culture gets ideals added to it by US. Putting different looking people from the dominant culture won't change anything. The effect of local values being reshaped by another group is still there. Whatever the beauty standards a country has is their own local problem unless it's being largely shaped by foreign influence.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well, yeah and that stopped. Then why didnt it stop in asia?

Why does any culture keep certain traits and abandon others? I'm sure someone wrote a book about it. :p

This is ridiculous, europeans love to tan and do everything possible to get a tan in the summer even if it means a fake tan. I guess I just dont get it

The preference to tan is just as much of an arbitrary modern phenomenon and has specific social causes. It's not a "natural" inclination, it's a current trend.

edit: I guess others answered.
 
What does hate have to do with it? You are the only person here having such notions.

My argument was that the problem is that a certain country and culture(US) controls a large amount of the media creation that a different culture conceives. The result is that the non-dominant culture gets ideals added to it by US. Putting different looking people from the dominant culture won't change anything. The effect of local values being reshaped by another group is still there.

Again, your argument doesn't seem to flow from one point to the other.

The result is that the non-dominant culture gets ideals added to it by US.

Here you say a lot of ideals are from American media consumption, which was my exact point as well. American media is largely white, which explains the large positive reception to white standards of beauty and idolization. But here,

Putting different looking people from the dominant culture won't change anything.

You claim if American media was more diverse, that diversity would somehow not carry over to other countries that consume it? Why not? Why would they suddenly stop liking what Hollywood says to like, just because it becomes less white??
 

kmax

Member
I think ultimately that it's a clash of ideas. The west and the east are ultimately different when it comes to this issue, and approaching this issue from a western mentality when trying to discern the eastern one is a fool's errand. For us in the west, we are much more diverse, both ethnically and culturally. This has led to a mesh of different social norms forming, where emphasis is put on giving everyone an equal chance to live their lives and to respect others equally, regardless of race, gender or sexual preference.

Since East-Asian nations are much more ethnically homogenous, these sort of mentalities are not at all prevalent as they are here. To illustrate, a Japanese person could technically integrate and become an American if he or she wanted to, but an American could never ever really become Japanese. There are people who have lived in Japan for generations, but are still seen as outsiders because of their ethnicity. Since the Japanese mentality in regards to these type of ideas are fundamentally different, there's no way to approach it from a western mentality, as the two are inherently different and thus incompatible. Because the relationships between East-Asian countries have historically been strained, many Japanese people would actually be more offended if an Asian person of Korean or Chinese heritage got Japanese parts, than say a white or a black person for that matter. That's why you rarely see Japanese people have an issue with the whitewashing that is taking place in Hollywood. The majority of them see no problem with it, as they view it as an American adaption of the source material. Of course, their view of "American" is different than ours as well.

The differences between western and eastern mentality are interesting, to say the least.
 

Jotaka

Member
Good transcript of discussion... Max click bait title because that was just 1 line in the whole transcript.

The people that keep saying need a big star to push the movie is the same that can't realize tv/movie celebrities has less influence than many youtubbers :p
 

Nabbis

Member
You claim if American media was more diverse, that diversity would somehow not carry over to other countries that consume it? Why not? Why would they suddenly stop liking what Hollywood says to like, just because it becomes less white??

Different looking people from the same culture is not diversity when it comes to the rest of the world. Im sorry but the rest of the world does not share such values, ethnicity is what matters.
 

Cynosure

Member
They're not.

Example, Black Goku:

irPmZpU.jpg

when Asian(?) Goku levels up to

super aryan

Lpo1ul.gif
 

Shouta

Member
Don't the Japanese overwhelmingly hate that one Japanese actress that appears in Hollywood Films? Think it was Rinko Kikuchi.

Rinko Kikuchi was apparently seen as awkward in Japan after she made a huge splash here in the US. So she hasn't exactly been popular back home. Interestingly enough, another Japanese actor was having problems back in the Japanese acting industry but made it over here, Hiroyuki Sanada. I think he was hit with scandals back home that caused his popularity to drop.

Kaori Momoi, who's the major Japanese actress in GITS, isn't in the same situation but she's considered a rather unique personality, as far as I know. A lot of female comedians do impressions of her, for example. She's a lot more expressive than most JP actresses too, at least IMO.
 
Good transcript of discussion... Max click bait title because that was just 1 line in the whole transcript.

The people that keep saying need a big star to push the movie is the same that can't realize tv/movie celebrities has less influence than many youtubbers :p

Fuck, most of my favorite movies are from when the big name actors in them weren't yet big names; they still had something to work for and prove.
 

PSqueak

Banned
Rinko Kikuchi was apparently seen as awkward in Japan after she made a huge splash here in the US. So she hasn't exactly been popular back home.

I thought Rinko's problem was that japan hated her because she didn't adhere to the idol-like culture of their celebrities.
 
I am not shocked by this. Unless for very specfic reasons or setting, tons of anime feature mostly White people or at least mixed such as a half Japanese half Northern European hence why they have blonde hair but are born/raised in Japan. Plus anime has hair colors that are not even natural such as blue, green, pink, purple etc.
 

Jotaka

Member
If true, it'd be kind of an interesting irony that black people having their ethnic/national origins obscured by slavery could allow them to coalesce as a sub-group in America and see any black representation benefitting the whole group.

I think it helped. It's hard to get the ball rolling if people aren't willing to band together to give it that push.

There's an Uptown neighborhood in Chicago that recently got a big sign installed by the train station. "Asia on Argyle" it reads. It's an Asian neighborhood supported by small businesses of Asian immigrants. There was a lot of debate over what to put on the sign. Chinese wanted "New Chinatown," Vietnamese wanted "Little Saigon," Cambodian and Hmong people were feeling under-represented. And then "Asia on Argyle" was finally settled on. The sign itself is ugly as fuck, but at least they were able to put aside their differences to make that horrific neon nightmare.
 
This is a pretty complex issue that often gets turned into a black or white stance. There are times where using a white Hollywood actor, especially a famous one, seems particularly offensive to the source material or just the narrative as is. But other times it's really not a problem. And, quite frankly, I think too many people in the West (maybe primarily Americans?) cry foul when the race or culture supposedly being whitewashed has no issues with the representation. And then, frustratingly, the are instances where the character isn't whitewashed at all yet ignorant people or those who just want to be outraged still label it as such, like Iron Fist.

I want roles to be filled by the appropriate actor, and that does include more roles being filled by non-white people. I also want there to be a more nuanced conversation about these subjects instead of cries of racism or whitewashing.
 

RRockman

Banned
This was a very enjoyable read. I really wonder if it's so hard to find a cultural advisor to bounce ideas off of to make your characters feel authentic?

The same way some people have a military advisor to make sure the military is represented accurately there should an effort to find a person, (a group of people preferably) to make sure your characters of a different race and cultural origins come off belivable. Not that it'd help this movie's garbo premise or anything, that was trash from the start.
 

Jotaka

Member
I thought Rinko's problem was that japan hated her because she didn't adhere to the idol-like culture of their celebrities.

She just didn't never was much famous in Japan, she got famous after gone outside Japan..


This was a very enjoyable read. I really wonder if it's so hard to find a cultural advisor to bounce ideas off of to make your characters feel authentic?
Most movie director are divas... Usually they don't accept suggestions from others
 

Breakage

Member
Not surprised. I've seen this attitude among western (British-born) East Asians. It's about the positive associations with fair skin.
 

Trokil

Banned
Unless specified, Japanese people see those stylized characters as Japanese. Funny how that works, huh?

According the artists they see stylized characters as not alive, so that is also way you can do pretty much everything in Japan with stylized characters, because they are not real.
 
Do you think the Simpsons are asian or something? 🤔

The Simpsons are yellow because they wanted the characters to catch the average channel surfer's eyes with the popping colour. Strangely enough, East Asian characters are actually pale in the show.
 

Shouta

Member
I thought Rinko's problem was that japan hated her because she didn't adhere to the idol-like culture of their celebrities.

Nah, as an actress, that exact expectation isn't forced on her as much. However, if you're on TV, you're expected to be good at the back and forth of TV programs like that and to give off a good image. She apparently wasn't good at that and gave a really bad impression.


Yep. As I recall, there was a period of 3 years after that where he didn't get work until I think the Ring in 1998. After that, he's had a few roles back home but he mostly acts overseas now.
 

Zoe

Member
this.

Most of the famous asian american actors (the very few) are Korean. Actually don't think there are any "famous asian american" actors that are japanese-american

Pat Morita, George Takei. Of course Pat Morita was always stuck playing a foreigner.

Can't think of anyone actually young though.
 

navii

My fantasy is that my girlfriend was actually a young high school girl.
I can't speak for the Japanese, or other races' experiences, but I usually feel that they are nice because it is easy to tell that I am a foreigner and its in their nature to be nice to guests. Few of my asian friends who have been to Japan also love their hospitality, so it can't be just be me.

I don't feel worshipped, I feel welcomed.
 
I can't speak for the Japanese, or other races' experiences, but I usually feel that they are nice because it is easy to tell that I am a foreigner and its in their nature to be nice to guests. Few of my asian friends who have been to Japan also love their hospitality, so it can't be just be me.

I don't feel worshipped, I feel welcomed.

I've definitely noticed this. From Japanese friends/coworkers they also claim Japanese people tend to be cold and somewhat unfriendly, but I've always found them super friendly to me (as a black guy). I've literally had people walk me part of the way when I've asked for directions
 

CrazyHorse

Junior Member
Who is we? Weeaboo? Otaku? I'm confident that the majority of westerners don't worship the Japanese in the slightest.

Sure, it seems like a cool place to visit, but I doubt many people gaze out their window, sighing, just wishing of how their lives would be so much better in Japan.

And the majority of Japanese don't worship white people.

There is a faction among both who wish they were the other.

You don't see weeaboos for other cultures. E.g. sub-cultures that are infatuated with German, Indian or Arab culture. Weeaboos do exist and funnily enough in Japan you have people who do the opposite.
 

Trokil

Banned
I don't feel worshipped, I feel welcomed.

Well, it can get pretty strange. I was in living in Japan for 2 years in 99 and 00 and during the election even nationalists had a rally. I only saw those huge black vans, the speakers and then this propaganda on the street. So I thought, well let's get out of here, but some of the guys actually came to me and told me I should stay, they don't mean people like me when they talk about foreigners who should get out. They even wanted to know where I am from. So that was weird.
 

PSqueak

Banned
Unless specified, Japanese people see those stylized characters as Japanese. Funny how that works, huh?

That's because the audience (not just japan, everybody in the world) has been conditioned to accept that "Anime styled people = Japanese", it's accepting the convention of the medium, not because they are instantly recognizable as Asian.

Contrast an average shonen protagonist with the characters from tokyo godfathers, were the characters are very visually asian, hell here's a screenshot example:

6NxUIZK.jpg


They look nothing like the usual Anime people that we have come to accept the pact that they're "japanese".
 
Not surprised. I've seen this attitude among western (British-born) East Asians. It's about the positive associations with fair skin.


the title of th thread is just a comment and opinion of one person, and its treated as if it is the reason for the article and that its been scientifically proven.
 

Sunster

Member
I can't speak for the Japanese, or other races' experiences, but I usually feel that they are nice because it is easy to tell that I am a foreigner and its in their nature to be nice to guests. Few of my asian friends who have been to Japan also love their hospitality, so it can't be just be me.

I don't feel worshipped, I feel welcomed.

yea, same. ITT people are really running marathons with the idea that millions of people worship them.
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
quick related Q... as I was watching one-punch man on Netflix the other day, I wondered why most anime/manga's have most of their characters look "Western" instead of Asian?
 

dlauv

Member
I said this last night to a friend when showing him the gaf topic about "even more whitewashing." The Asian audience in general obviously doesn't give a shit, to the detriment of Asian Americans especially.

It's just the impression I got, and the impression these people get.

I wonder if white supremacy will ever be dismantled. Seems terminally entrenched.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can't speak for the Japanese, or other races' experiences, but I usually feel that they are nice because it is easy to tell that I am a foreigner and its in their nature to be nice to guests. Few of my asian friends who have been to Japan also love their hospitality, so it can't be just be me.

I don't feel worshipped, I feel welcomed.
That's literally white privilege.
 
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