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[0racle]

I honestly don't know what they can show that will make it a better choice than getting a PC (price aside).

Something that's better at doing what the PS4 Pro does would be pretty darn meh.

Maybe instead of trying to sell to the current PC crowed, maybe they are trying to sell to gamers thinking about upgrading to PC gaming.

Full fledged pc windows with unified ecosystem.

 

[expletive]

DF should be keeping MS and their consoles in check, MS shouldn't be using them to advertise and reveal their products.

MS must be very confident in the hardware, as DF has shown they will pull no punches when it comes to tech and performance.

DF is the perfect place to expose the technology in Scorpio since their comparisons have been a thorn in MS' side since the beginning of this generation. If the news is very positive, then it will flip what has been a source negative press into a positive one.

Additionally, given how critical they have been of MS, I think the audience who cares about this sort of thing will have high confidence in a positive report.

DF keeping MS "in check" and letting them do the initial 3rd party technical analysis of Scorpio do not need to be mutually exclusive.

 

[Capsov]

I expect a comparison of an already released game. Halo or FH3

Absolutely, as well as the rumored Forza 7 gameplay, I would be surprised if we got more. I still don't think they will show off the actual box.

 

[Cpt_Cabal]

So they just dump a bunch of numbers on DF to communicate for them?

Kind of lackluster. I thought they would do an actual event first.

Have you been paying attention, like for the last 30-odd pages, AT ALL??

 

[transformer]

Wow.

No words, no words at all. Smh.

How dare they report news on the video game industry. Who do they think they are?

J/k of course.

 

[ironcreed]

I love that DF is getting dragged for something they haven't even reported on yet and we know nothing about.

Naturally, it's because the next Xbox is involved, so console warriors have to draw their line in the sand just in case they speak of it favorably, lol. It's beyond embarrassing.

 

[AmyS]

Okay guys, one last time, before Scorpio's technical reveal.--

--Early reports about Microsoft getting into the console market with 'X-Box' during 1998 and 1999, before it all became official, and the reasoning for Microsoft's entry into the console space in the first place -- To block Sony from completely dominating the living room with PlayStation 2.

This should provide you with plenty of reading material between now and what Digital Foundry has in store for us on Thursday morning.

Microsoft reportedly working on game console
Apr 27, 1998 Paul Thurrott | Windows IT Pro

Microsoft Corporation reportedly intends to allow its next-generation WebTV device to compete with the Nintendo 64 and Sony Playstation game consoles. The story is rather complicated, but it goes something like this: A few years ago, a company called 3DO was working its own next-generation game console, which was dubbed the M2. The M2 contained three key technologies which were pretty impressive for their day: DVD playback, MPEG3 decoding, and a new chipset called MX. When it became clear that 3DO was going to have to exit the hardware market for financial reasons, it sold the M2 technology to Samsung, which created a division called CagEnt that had two years to make money with it.

CagEnt's MX chipset from the M2 technology utilized two PowerPC 602 microprocessors at the time: the same CPU that powers Apple Macintosh computers. In late 1997, Nintendo visited CagEnt in search of a new 3D chipset since its relationship with Silicon Graphics had fallen apart and sales of the Nintendo 64 were slower than expected. In early 1998, Nintendo officially terminated its relationship with ailing Silicon Graphics and offered to buy CagEnt outright.

While details of the sale continued, Nintendo worked with CagEnt to wrap its MX chipset around a MiPS processor, as the company's consoles use NEC MiPS CPUs, not PowerPC. The plan was for the new MX-based machine, complete with hardware 3D, DVD-ROM, and cartridge capabilities to be ready in time for Christmas 1999. Unfortunately for Nintendo, talks with Samsung broke down within a few months.

That's where Microsoft stepped in.

In Early April, the company bought CagEnt through its WebTV division, acquiring all of the assets of CagEnt and its key personnel. Microsoft's plan is to use the MX technology as the core of its next WebTV device, which will clearly be used for more than Email and Web browsing. In fact, Microsoft has quietly been gaining the knowledge it needs to compete in the game console market through its parternship with Sega and it's likely that a Microsoft-backed, Windows CE-based WebTV device could even be co-created with that company.

All this puts Nintendo in a bind, of course, and the company will be unable to create a new console in time for Christmas 1999 now. Its current plan is for the next device to reach stores in late 2000 instead, though its unclear who they will be able to partner with to make such a goal.

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-server/microsoft-reportedly-working-game-console

Microsoft's X-Box: Fight for the future?

Summary: As rumors fly about a Microsoft game console, one thing's clear: It has the team to make it.

By Robert Lemos | September 27, 1999

This month's reports that Microsoft is working on a game console to rival Sony's PlayStation 2 came as little surprise to at least one industry executive.
"I guarantee you that if there's a group that knows how to build a video game machine, it's the one inside (Microsoft subsidiary) WebTV," said Hugh Martin, former CEO of 3DO Systems Inc., which challenged the established video game industry more than five years ago.

Martin, now CEO at Optical Networks Inc., should know. You see, those WebTV engineers used to work for him at 3DO.

If WebTV does produce the rumored console, it will mark the end of a long trek for those engineers.

Long journey
When Martin was at 3DO, it was a hot startup, bringing a 32-bit game console to market almost two years before Sony produced the PlayStation. But in 1996, 3DO faced the truth: It had lost the war, selling only a million units. It scrapped its plans for a 64-bit next-generation device, known as the M2, and sold its hardware division to Samsung, a Korean consumer electronics manufacturer.

Samsung had its new company, now called CagEnt, poised to excel in the PC graphics market, scoring deals with arcade machine maker Konami and semiconductor manufacturer Cirrus Logic. By spring 1997, however, both deals had crumbled and an ailing Samsung was looking to sell CagEnt.

After a near-miss with Nintendo, Samsung sold the group to WebTV, which was by then a Microsoft subsidiary. The engineers, and almost all of the advanced graphics technology -- moved with the company. "Those guys are still there," said Martin. "They are inside WebTV in Palo Alto (Calif.)."

WebTV is open about why they bought CagEnt.

"(CagEnt) had both the intellectual property and people that we were interested in," said Alan Yates, director of marketing at WebTV Networks. While he would not confirm the existence of the X-Box project, Yates admitted, "You will see future versions of WebTV that will use the video capabilities that we acquired, as well as the 3-D capabilities."

Yates added that, while the technology was there to make an X-Box device, "our strategy right now is very, very clear: to provide additional functionality for TV."

That may change, and quickly, analysts said. With Sony using the PlayStation 2 as a "Trojan horse" to become the center of home entertainment, Microsoft should be looking at games as well.

"For Microsoft to get plugged into (the gaming console market) would not be a big stretch for them," said Jae Kim, analyst with entertainment technology watcher Paul Kagan Associates. "At the very least, it would provide another gateway into the living room."

Game developers think so, too.

"Can you see 200 million connections to the Internet and Microsoft not being a part of it?" asked one gaming industry source on condition of anonymity.

What about Dreamcast?
Still, some analysts doubted the reports, questioning why Microsoft would pursue a new game machine when its partner, Sega, has created a successful one already.

"Dreamcast meets all the goals they would set for such a device," said Peter Glaskowsky, graphics guru at chip technology researcher MicroDesign Resources Inc.

And Sega stresses that the working relationship with Microsoft could not be better. "Microsoft has been extremely supportive," said Charles Bellfield, director of marketing for Sega of America Inc.

Bellfield could not confirm the rumors of the mysterious game device. "I am sure that Microsoft is developing a whole range of products that will never see the light of day."

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-x-box-fight-for-the-future/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/10/06/gigapixel_takes_on_3dfx_s3/

GigaPixel takes on 3dfx, S3, Nvidia with... tiles
Tile-based rendering faster, better looking than polygons claims company

6 Oct 1999

US 3D graphics specialist GigaPixel this week issued a challenge to the likes of 3dfx, Nvidia, S3 and ATI -- the company claims its GP-1 chip, based on its Giga3D architecture, has rival products well and truly licked on both image quality and performance. What makes GP-1 interesting is its use of a tile-based rendering scheme instead of the traditional polygon approached used by every other mainstream graphics accelerator.

According to GigaPixel CEO George Haber, GP-1 breaks a scene into a series of small tiles and renders each individually. That, he said, allows the chip to render a fully anti-aliased image -- which is where GP-1 gets its superior image quality from -- without the massive processing overhead it usually requires. Tiling the image also considerably reduces the card's bandwidth requirements by a factor of ten, he added, which also increases performance. GP-1 is fully compatible with the Direct3D and OpenGL APIs, Haber said.

The chip takes the polygon-based description of the scene and converts it into the sequence of tiles. Each tile is rendered and shaded as required then sent to the frame buffer. Haber demonstrated Quake II running on a GP-1 reference board and a Matrox 3D card, and while the frame rate appeared comparable, with its anti-aliasing, the GP-1's output certainly looked better. Of course, 3dfx's upcoming Napalm board will offer anti-aliasing -- though not full-scene anti-aliasing -- when it ships in Q1 2000. Haber dismissed the Napalm's T-buffer technology on a technical level since the board has to render each scene four times to make anti-aliasing work, but what does that matter if 3dfx can make it work cost-effectively and retain high frame rates? 3dfx's system will also offer other effects, such as motion blur and smooth shadows, which as yet the GP-1 does not. That said, the company's approach should give it the processing headroom to add more advanced features to later versions of the chip.

GP-3 PDF

At one point X-Box was to use GigaPixel's then next-next generation GPU, the GP-4 and this was in the running with Nvidia's then next-next generation GPU, the NV25 (which became the GeForce 4 Ti). In the end, Nvidia won, and the final XBox GPU, the NV2A was a cross between a GeForce 3 and a GeForce 4, with a couple of hardware features that would later go into NV30 aka GeForceFX.

 

[Izuna]

Maybe instead of trying to sell to the current PC crowed, maybe they are trying to sell to gamers thinking about upgrading to PC gaming.

Full fledged pc windows with unified ecosystem.

That would do it for me

I'd pay £600 for Windows 10 with proposed specs

 

[ekim]

Absolutely, as well as the rumored Forza 7 gameplay, I would be surprised if we got more. I bet they won't even show off the actual box.

If one of the key aspects is a small size they will show it. I kind of think we might even see some fancy water cooling. But I doubt they will give us the final name unless MS does a soft announce a few hours before the DF reveal.

 

[Lom1lo]

Can someone explain to me why exactly no zen based apu is possible ? I didnt get it from some posts in here.

 

[CalamityPixel]

I have proof DF are trying to sabotage the new Xbox.

If you squint carefully enough at the DF logo, it looks like a PS. That's right, the logo of Playstation.

Something is off here.

 

[Thorrgal]

All of this is propaganda.

There would be have been serious discussions about how, when and to whom to reveal the machine and in turn how that information will be shared.

In this case DF is the outlet, but that's not for our benefit or theirs - it's because there's been a decision at MS that this is the best thing to do for the company.

Just because its being talked about from an outlet that people here (including me) trust, doesn't stop it being propaganda.

I mean obviously...

 

[pswii60]

Maybe Scorpio has two Jaguars duct-taped together.

 

[wesleyshark]

I have proof DF are trying to sabotage the new Xbox.

If you squint carefully enough at the DF logo, it looks like a PS. That's right, the logo of Playstation.

Something is off here.

Someone call IGN

 

[icespide]

I have proof DF are trying to sabotage the new Xbox.

If you squint carefully enough at the DF logo, it looks like a PS. That's right, the logo of Playstation.

Something is off here.

 

[thelastword]

Instead of trying to get sequels which will most likely be multiplatform in the future (SO2, AW2, QB2 etc..)..I think MS should take a sample of what made the original XBOX library varied with different genres and exclusives.....


Watch OG XBOX...

They had

Ninja Gaiden
Sega GT
OTOGI
PGR
JSRF
ODDWorld
RallySport Challenge
DOA3
Halo
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Fable
Jade Empire
Mech Assault
Gun Valkyrie
Phantom Dust
Splinter Cell
Stranger's Wrath


and some diverse and unique titles like

Kakuto Chojin
Tao Feng
Apex Racing
Voodoo Vince
Conker
Breakdown....

They even had descent ports of Halflife, Doom and Unreal championship.....


I think MS really has to go back to these days..OG XBX is still my favourite MS console by far and they need to offer such a diverse library again.....This time around they will have the hardware to run lots of their exclsuives at 60fps if they go with ZEN and IQ and graphcis fidelity should also shine with a 6TF GPU with good resolutions and IQ, but the ball is in their court.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Crackdown 3 news at the same time...??

https://twitter.com/crackdown/status/849368332839133188

Oh hell hell hell yeah!!!!!

Sounds like we'll definitely get info and God knows what else before E3 about this game. Perhaps Thursday? Bit of interesting timing to tweet this.

 

[WadeitOut]

DF should be keeping MS and their consoles in check, MS shouldn't be using them to advertise and reveal their products.

Keep them in check with what? The specs are the specs lol. It doesn't matter who's explaining the details.

 

[Stinkles]

DF should be keeping MS and their consoles in check, MS shouldn't be using them to advertise and reveal their products.

I can't even

 

[Tagyhag]

That's early but F it, always gotta be there for basically a newish system.

 

[Space_nut]

I can't even

I can't I can't

 

[wesleyshark]

Keep them in check with what? The specs are the specs lol. It doesn't matter who's explaining the details.

Their implication is that Microsoft is trying to lie about Scorpio and only DF can expose them, but now DF has been tainted by Microsoft under-the-table monies.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

DF should be keeping MS and their consoles in check, MS shouldn't be using them to advertise and reveal their products.

Why not?

 

[Dabanton]

Digital Foundry now working as agents of the publishers? Well that's me unsubscribed.

Industry is so fucking murky..

This is just a taste of the madness Thursday will bring.

I'm expecting plenty of grayed out names in that reveal thread.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Is it also games or just console. Console spec showcase is always boring imo.

If it's game showcase like Crackdown 3, I'm interested

 

[expletive]

All of this is propaganda.

There would be have been serious discussions about how, when and to whom to reveal the machine and in turn how that information will be shared.

In this case DF is the outlet, but that's not for our benefit or theirs - it's because there's been a decision at MS that this is the best thing to do for the company.

Just because its being talked about from an outlet that people here (including me) trust, doesn't stop it being propaganda.

Depends on how people are using the term. Some people in the thread are using the connotation that propaganda is intentionally misleading, though the actual definition does not require that it be so.

 

[pswii60]

DF should be keeping MS and their consoles in check, MS shouldn't be using them to advertise and reveal their products.

Are you saying that DF should be sent in to the NeoGAF dungeons with Phil Fish, Don Mattrick and Brexit voters?

 

[Colbert]

DF should be keeping MS and their consoles in check, MS shouldn't be using them to advertise and reveal their products.

I love this thread. My ignore list grows and grows ...

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

This thing will be a spec reveal so DF is a good fit for that.

People saying that DF shouldn't do it is just nonsense. The absolute worst they could do is lie and say something about the new Xbox being able to run everything at 4K 60fps or some other nonsense, and when it didn't happen they would lose all credibility. Just to have the exclusive on this reveal. So pretty obviously that's not going to happen.

 

[rokkerkory]

I can't even

He's prob a paid russian shrill / troll

 

[GarthVaderUK]

I don't understand the conspiracy theories. I mean, specs are specs. Do some think DF will lie about them for MS? Surely that would be called out pretty quickly? Come on guys...

 

[Fisty]

Definitely the smart move from MS. The only concern I have is where the footage they analyze will be sourced from, but other than that this is probably the best unveiling we can hope for

 

[Biggzy]

That already exists.

A pity as it would actually be a perfect name for Scorpio.

 

[ironcreed]

I can't even

They better be cracking that whip and talking it down! It also better not be too much more powerful than my preferred brand or I... I am going to post angry messages on NeoGAF! I'll show them for daring to showcase their new system.

 

[WadeitOut]

Their implication is that Microsoft is trying to lie about Scorpio and only DF can expose them, but now DF has been tainted not Microsoft under the table monies.

Oh I know. This is my passive way of calling someone stupid without actually calling them stupid.

 

[blastprocessor]

Awesome! Zen come to me.

 

[Terbinator]

This is just a taste of the madness Thursday will bring.

I'm expecting plenty of grayed out names in that reveal thread.

It is known.

 

[SOR5]

This Thursday is going to be epic.

1) Zen, 12GB GDDR5 RAM, all the CUs, all the RUs, water cooling system, $399, 6.5TF, internal power brick, slightly bigger than Xbox One S.

2) Xbox One S price reduced to $250 permanently

3) Microsoft announces the purchase of three new 1st parties

4) Microsoft announces the creation of three new in-house 1st parties

5) Turn10, Playground, 343, and The Coalition all announce that they are working on new IPs

6) Sunset Overdrive 2, Ryse 2, Quantum Break 2, Alan Wake 2 announced

Fingers crossed for the main event.

You'll take what you're given

 

[rokkerkory]

Rewatching scorpio E3 announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuYVpClWl5E

 

[opricnik]

Will they reveal the name?

 

[Taker34]

I'm really not concerned about future Sony or Nintendo coverage but seeing how DF is ok with being an advertising platform for a console manufacturer or just hardware in general definitely leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

DF presents themselves as a pure fact driven tech outlet. That doesn't interfere with showing or analyzing any graphics card or console sent by the manufacturer - but the fact that they're acting as a promotion platform makes it look like this:

Gaming journalism and the often uncomfortably relationship to video game companies basically - that's a very delicate topic and why we see a bunch of genuinely concerned folks (calm down fanboys DF went from "360 bias" to "PS4 bias" - you go figure).

 

[MassiveNights]

It does have 'Digital Foundry are sellouts' on it.

How can we trust their comparisons in the future ?

Surely if you trusted them before, you can continue to trust them?

Just assume they are not being paid for this, which they almost certainly aren't.

 

[FacelessSamurai]

I'm really not concerned about future Sony or Nintendo coverage but seeing how DF is ok with being an advertising platform for a console manufacturer or just hardware in general definitely leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

DF presents themselves as a pure fact driven tech outlet. That doesn't interfere with showing or analyzing any graphics card or console sent by the manufacturer - but the fact that they're acting as a promotion platform makes it look like this:

Gaming journalism and the often uncomfortably relationship to video game companies basically - that's a very delicate topic and why we see a bunch of genuinely concerned folks (calm down fanboys DF went from "360 bias" to "PS4 bias" - you go figure).

I am not seeing any "genuinely" concerned folks in here, more like concerned fanboys.

 

[WadeitOut]

Surely if you trusted them before, you can continue to trust them?

Just assume they are not being paid for this, which they almost certainly aren't.

I like how people think Digital Foundry is so important to the world that they would need Microsoft to actually pay them to cover the specs of a new console.

 

[iMax]

I'm really not concerned about future Sony or Nintendo coverage but seeing how DF is ok with being an advertising platform for a console manufacturer or just hardware in general definitely leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

DF presents themselves as a pure fact driven tech outlet. That doesn't interfere with showing or analyzing any graphics card or console sent by the manufacturer - but the fact that they're acting as a promotion platform makes it look like this:

Gaming journalism and the often uncomfortably relationship to video game companies basically - that's a very delicate topic and why we see a bunch of genuinely concerned folks (calm down fanboys DF went from "360 bias" to "PS4 bias" - you go figure).

It's an exclusive not sponsored content. There is a very big difference.

 

[insonator]

Surely if you trusted them before, you can continue to trust them?

Just assume they are not being paid for this, which they almost certainly aren't.

Sorry, can't trust that independance anymore

Big money is involved in game dev and that trust is being broken

 

[icespide]

exclusive != sponsored

 

[wesleyshark]

Sorry, can't trust that independance anymore

Big money is involved in game dev and that trust is being broken

 

[Samurai G0SU]

The hate for micrsoft is so weird in these threads. Even association at something to have potential, positive vibes stirs hate and disgust.

Did ms kill their grandpa or something? Mi gusta!

-----

Pretty excited to see that they are kicking off their Road to e3 campaign now. Starting with scorpio and some info about crackdown 3!!!

Hype. 7am mst will be perfect for meee

 

[Wedzi]

Anyone think that MS might be at all worried what digital foundry actually says in their piece? Like what if they rag on the CPU or if 6TF isn't enough for native 4K in a lot of games, etc.? Not saying they won't have nice things to say but this is the first concrete piece of new information we're getting since E3 2016.