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[kevin1025]

Oh yeah, there is nothing wrong with having doubt about the film(s). I was going to come in this thread, make a joke about the length of production, and mention I am beginning to lose hope for the films. I mean, it also wouldn't be surprising if the film didn't do all that great considering the length of time.

But man, people are just needlessly shitting on Cameron. Don't get me wrong, some people here actually have gone into great length about the reasons why this is bad and why they don't think the films will succeed and I am happy not all people need to quickly post how their friends all hated the film before it was cool to do so (even though that has no barring in this thread) or crap like that. I shouldn't be surprised, it is well known that Neogaf has a hard on for randomly bringing up how "No one I know likes it" and "Man, finally people will stop acting like has amazing writing and an original plot" (which is stupid as no one in the actual real world even thinks this; apparently this film is the only that can't have bad writing and boring plots even though films like Transformers aren't nearly hated on Neogaf compared to Avatar) even though there are plenty of things to discuss with the film being delayed.

I am all for talking about whether or not the film will be good or if all the sequels are a smart decision. Heck we can even discuss if people still want an Avatar film. But people, come on:

"Nobody asked for these films" are you freaking serious? Like, really? How can such a large group mentality on this site exist? Even if this movie doesn't do well, it isn't like it won't make millions of dollars. Saying no one asked for a freaking sequel to Avatar is like saying no one asked for a sequel to Star Wars. Like how ridiculous can this forum get? Maybe now since it will be over a decade, but people were REALLY wanting a sequel and they put money where their mouths were.

Hell, it's like we are forgetting this is James Cameron. No one could have any interest in this film and he could release a trailer and have a whole nation excited for his film. Man, people (lol especially on Neogaf) were making fun of Avatar before the trailer came out and yet people still went.

Who knows, maybe something horrible happens and we don't even get a sequel after all this time? Maybe the film fails spectacularly? But you know, having an open mind and discussions about how delaying the film might harm or help the film seems to be available to only few people on Neogaf. Don't know why it happens to posters about Avatar as many of the people posting seems to usually have an open mind.

I agree with you for the most part. It can be too easy to dismiss something, especially when there's so much time that has passed. Plus Avatar is not so much in the public consciousness anymore, so it's also easy to say it's hated or not well-liked. I'm sure some of the posters in here were potentially fairly young when it came out, so it doesn't even matter in their minds anymore, or their generation doesn't even think about it.

But the moral of anything James Cameron: never bet against him!

 

[TDLink]

Titanic doesn't get shit on anymore. Not since Avatar took the throne.

That's what I mean by "the Titanic effect". Titanic was shit on mercilessly on the Internet for 12 years. Once Avatar surpassed it? Suddenly it wasn't shit on anymore and now people generally speak positively about it. Now Avatar is shit on mercilessly. And like Titanic, when Avatar is eventually dethroned at the box office, I suspect it too will receive a more positive treatment.

Basically when you're on top, people can't wait to see you fall.

Not sure I agree with that. There are definitely Cameron fans who dislike Titanic because they feel it's "off-brand" for him not being an action film/featuring very little action and entirely focusing on a love story. There are also those that consider it boring and not something that justifies its length.

Now I don't agree with those people, but Avatar releasing hasn't exactly shut those people out. Maybe just the people who shit on Avatar have drowned out or overshadowed those who don't find Titanic all that.

My personal view is that if something exists there will be people on the internet shitting on it. So I don't see why we should actually care about these vocal minorities anyways. Both Titanic and Avatar are expertly made films. Could the plot in Avatar be less generic? Absolutely. But I still believe in what Cameron is trying to do with this universe of his and that's why I'm still excited about potential sequels whenever they actually materialize.

 

[jelly]

One of the things I disliked about Avatar was the good bits were filled mostly with Aliens-lite framework. The characters could have been a nice variety but the dialogue was weak as hell like he wrote it on the day. I don't care for the Na'vi designs or background but the world design was neat and he does future military well enough. Avatar 2 will be okay if he has good characters and dialogue compared to the original. Maybe he will change a lot of things.

 

[TDLink]

What would be more mind blowing at this point though:

Cameron coming up with a leap forward in CG imagery and cinematography? Or Cameron doing almost everything practically with models, puppets, animatronics, and sets?

Nothing Cameron does will ever be as mindblowing as The Abyss on a technical level. He was a true madman on that film the likes of which we'll almost certainly never see again in Hollywood.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

2020 : "Hey guys, remember Avatar?"

2015: "Hey guys, remember Mad Max?"

 

[Surfinn]

2015: "Hey guys, remember Mad Max?"

Watching this now

 

[shintoki]

I'm not a fan of Avatar, I think it's Cameron's weakest. But you know you're in for a mind blowing spectacle when this shit drops that's going to make even the dopest movies look like Spiderman 2 CG.

So him taking his time is a good thing. Hell, he's done more than enough for us peasants already where if he wanted to retire and live in his aquadome under the sea. He earned it.

And if not, He can remake Big Fat Liar.

 

[The Leewit]

2015: "Hey guys, remember Mad Max?"

Sublime.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Watching this now

Not a bad way to spend a Saturday afternoon.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Watching this now

Re-watched it last week. (along with Road Warrior)

 

[kevin1025]

2015: "Hey guys, remember Mad Max?"

Now I want Avatar: Na'Vi Road.

 

[Surfinn]

Yup it's a great film.

Goddamn 2015 was a great year for movies

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Disney to Cameron:

 

[Wesley-Sigma]

Eleven years for a sequel.

Outstanding.

 

[Mysterious]

This movie is going to flop so hard.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

This movie is going to flop so hard.

Na'vis In Paris

 

[Tylercrat]

In between Avatar 1 and 2 we will have had twenty two Marvel Cinematic Universe films to put it into context. Only Iron Man and Incredible Hulk pre-date Avatar 1.

And they were all crap.

I'm very excited about the Avatar sequels and I expect they will be fantastic.

 

[near]

Avatar 2 was never scheduled for 2018, 4 months before shooting begins the film is suddenly delayed by 2 years? Fuck off with that shit.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Watch it, it's going to be a VR movie, the first fully VR movie!

 

[TDLink]

Disney/Star Wars has nothing to do with this delay.

And they were all crap.

I'm very excited about the Avatar sequels and I expect they will be fantastic.

They're not crap at all. But from an action perspective I agree none can stand up to the masterful direction that Cameron can command.

 

[Jeffolation]

Eleven years for a sequel.

Outstanding.

Sometimes the wait is worth it:

The Two Jakes
Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps
The Godfather III
Easy Rider: The Ride Back

 

[3N16MA]

And they were all crap.

I'm very excited about the Avatar sequels and I expect they will be fantastic.

Thanks for the insight. No need to ever watch a MCU film after your review.

 

[Chumley]

This movie is going to flop so hard.

People who keep doubting Cameron are going to keep being made fools of.

Did anyone think Avatar would go on to end up at #1 and stay there even in 2017?

 

[The Hamburglar]

Will Sam be back? He needs work.

 

[jett]

2015: "Hey guys, remember Mad Max?"

Hah.

Indeed. People in this forum seemingly act like James Cameron is going to re-release Avatar in 2020.

 

[kevin1025]

And they were all crap.

I'm very excited about the Avatar sequels and I expect they will be fantastic.

Were they ALL crap, though? You didn't like even one of them?

 

[wachie]

Titanic doesn't get shit on anymore. Not since Avatar took the throne.

That's what I mean by "the Titanic effect". Titanic was shit on mercilessly on the Internet for 12 years. Once Avatar surpassed it? Suddenly it wasn't shit on anymore and now people generally speak positively about it. Now Avatar is shit on mercilessly. And like Titanic, when Avatar is eventually dethroned at the box office, I suspect it too will receive a more positive treatment.

Basically when you're on top, people can't wait to see you fall.

This is some really really backwards ass view. Yes, the Internet is full of vitroil but that theory doesnt hold.

If going by that metric, TFA outgrossed Avatar by some margin domestically. It's the #1 movie in NA. Since the Internet (and by extension our exposure) is only to NA boards, then the boards, social outlets should be shitting on TFA mercilessly and Avatar should be fine in thier books.

DIDNT HAPPEN.

 

[jett]

This is some really really backwards ass view. Yes, the Internet is full of vitroil but that theory doesnt hold.

If going by that metric, TFA outgrossed Avatar by some margin domestically. It's the #1 movie in NA. Since the Internet (and by extension our exposure) is only to NA boards, then the boards, social outlets should be shitting on TFA mercilessly and Avatar should be fine in thier books.

DIDNT HAPPEN.

What?

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

This is some really really backwards ass view. Yes, the Internet is full of vitroil but that theory doesnt hold.

If going by that metric, TFA outgrossed Avatar by some margin domestically. It's the #1 movie in NA. Since the Internet (and by extension our exposure) is only to NA boards, then the boards, social outlets should be shitting on TFA mercilessly and Avatar should be fine in thier books.

DIDNT HAPPEN.

That North American qualifier.

When the film starts being hailed in headlines as the biggest film of all time, it's something different. And there is a big margin between TFA and Avatar.

 

[3N16MA]

Just deal with the fact that GAF will eventually turn on every film that is successful.

You need Speed Racer levels of fail to be hailed as a classic.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

People who keep doubting Cameron are going to keep being made fools of.

In addition to the earlier posts I made regarding this forum and it's not unique but also not uninteresting response to all things Avatar, I think this post above works as an example of how/why contention arises so readily on the subject.

The hyper-confident surety in the man's total infallibility, coming from people whose part in that myth extends no further that hitting play on a Blu-ray, definitely prompts people to counter it a little more forcefully than they otherwise might.

It sometimes reads as zealotry more than anything, and there's a constant bent towards schadenfreude here that causes people to want that confidence (well- or ill-earned as it may be) to be punctured.

Sometimes, it's not really about Cameron at all. Cameron is just the lever by which posters are just trying to stiff arm each other for being annoying.

I have... Some personal experience with this bullshit, as it turns out.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You need Speed Racer levels of fail to be hailed as a classic.

This is fantastic.

 

[shintoki]

You either live to see yourself become Avatar or die to be Speed Racer.

 

[ahoyhoy]

If only he had known ahead of time how long it would take.

But then again, hindsight is 2020.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If only he had known ahead of time how long it would take.

But then again, hindsight is 2020.

Ahoy, ahoyhoy. Ahoyhoyhoy.

 

[Smellycat]

I actually laughed out loud when I read the title lol

 

[Nakazato]

Let it go

 

[ryutaro's mama]

If only he had known ahead of time how long it would take.

But then again, hindsight is 2020.

This is so dad it hurts.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This is so dad it hurts.

Hurts so good.

 

[kevin1025]

If only he had known ahead of time how long it would take.

But then again, hindsight is 2020.

Avatar: Hindsight (2020).

 

[Sibersk Esto]

If only he had known ahead of time how long it would take.

But then again, hindsight is 2020.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

If only he had known ahead of time how long it would take.

But then again, hindsight is 2020.

Ayyyyyyyyyyyy




Also the idea that Avatar hate is limited to just NeoGAF seems kinda silly to me. I've seen plenty of backlash against the film elsewhere on other forums. Maybe it ultimately just comes down to whether or not you're looking for hate/praise on the film or something along those lines?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Also the idea that Avatar hate is limited to just NeoGAF seems kinda silly to me. I've seen plenty of backlash against the film elsewhere on other forums. Maybe it ultimately just comes down to whether or not you're looking for hate/praise on the film or something along those lines?

Anecdotally, I see the hate online in places other than GAF BUT I never have people IRL respond with such vitriol if the subject of the movie comes up.

At worst, I see apathy. Usually, it's more like, "Oh are they doing another one?" YMMV

 

[x-Lundz-x]

This movie is going to flop so hard.

2 Billion +

 

[Dash_Riprock]

This movie is going to flop so hard.

It could collapse as hard as Alice Through the Looking Glass did compared to Alice in Wonderand and still make well over a billion.

Unless the budget is $500 million not including marketing (not impossible, but very improbable), thats not a flop.

 

[kswiston]

2 Billion +

$2B would still give it the biggest dollar drop between sequels of all time. That's a flop as far as GAF is concerned. See Call of Duty



Honestly, 2020 is so far away that trying to predict a gross at this point is sort of meaningless. Where will the USD be in 3.5 years? Where will the Chinese box office be in 3.5 years? Those two things could mean the difference of well over $500M, everything else being equal.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It could collapse as hard as Alice Through the Looking Glass did compared to Alice in Wonderand and still make well over a billion.

K-Swiss did the numbers in one of the B.O. threads and came up with a plausible scenario where it still clears 2bil worldwide even if it has a similar drop film-to-film as Through the Looking Glass.

Which would lead to a situation where, even if it did worse numbers than that, say 1.7-1.8 bil worldwide, it would still finish in the top 5 all-time worldwide even AFTER dropping a billion from movie to movie.

Everything about it from the box-office perspective is going to be rigoddamndiculous to discuss.

Which will be, of course, completely divorced from most quality conversation about what it is as a story.

 

[Caddywompus]

Anecdotally, I see the hate online in places other than GAF BUT I never have people IRL respond with such vitriol if the subject of the movie comes up.

At worst, I see apathy. Usually, it's more like, "Oh are they doing another one?" YMMV

I agree, indifference is along the lines of interest from what I've seen. As successful as the first film was I don't see a following the way the internet makes it out to be some lifestyle in the vain of Star Wars.

 

[gamz]

$2B would still give it the biggest dollar drop between sequels of all time. That's a flop as far as GAF is concerned. See Call of Duty



Honestly, 2020 is so far away that trying to predict a gross at this point is sort of meaningless. Where will the USD be in 3.5 years? Where will the Chinese box office be in 3.5 years? Those two things could mean the difference of well over $500M, everything else being equal.

I can't even comprehend that.

 

[TDLink]

K-Swiss did the numbers in one of the B.O. threads and came up with a plausible scenario where it still clears 2bil worldwide even if it has a similar drop film-to-film as Through the Looking Glass.

Which would lead to a situation where, even if it did worse numbers than that, say 1.7-1.8 bil worldwide, it would still finish in the top 5 all-time worldwide even AFTER dropping a billion from movie to movie.

Everything about it from the box-office perspective is going to be rigoddamndiculous to discuss.

Which will be, of course, completely divorced from most quality conversation about what it is as a story.

I would say it's wrong to assume Avatar 2 will be close to as big as the original. That shouldn't be the expectation. There will be over a decade difference. Different audience completely from 2009 and one that has now been deluged with all these various movie universes in that time period. I think it's still going to do pretty damn well but I don't think we can look at the original and say a sequel 11+ years later is really going to do close to that. Now, it totally might, but I just think it's impossible to predict that right now.

I don't think Alice is comparable either because that film didn't come close to Avatar, was targeted at different demographics, and had a shorter gap to its sequel than Avatar will.