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[Infinite]

Bill Maher is just a comedian with a "I'm the only sane person on planet earth" schtick that got tired.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

As a liberal, I ask, when are we going to learn that shutting these people off from speaking isn't going to solve any problems? When you maginalize ANY group, you're going to get an equal and opposite reaction. This is why we have Trump.

We do what we do best, engage. She spews her dogshit and then we embarrass her in public. We make her feel so profoundly stupid that she freezes in her own skin and doesn't bother anymore. Are we so insecure that we cannot offer sensible and profound rebuttals that we just settle for brushing her under a rug?

All we are doing is giving her reason for her and her followers to press on.

Ann Coutler has had years to spew her dogshit in public (way more publicly than a speech at Berkeley, that's for sure)and all it's gotten her is millions of dollars, 12 best-selling books, and a loyal fanbase

Do you feel as confidant in your proposed strategy now?

 

[Zeyphersan]

As a liberal, I ask, when are we going to learn that shutting these people off from speaking isn't going to solve any problems? When you maginalize ANY group, you're going to get an equal and opposite reaction. This is why we have Trump.

We do what we do best, engage. She spews her dogshit and then we embarrass her in public. We make her feel so profoundly stupid that she freezes in her own skin and doesn't bother anymore. Are we so insecure that we cannot offer sensible and profound rebuttals that we just settle for brushing her under a rug?

All we are doing is giving her reason for her and her followers to press on.

I'm fucking howling

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

People need to lay off with all that "we" bullshit too

 

[Infinite]

Liberals are horrible at strategy. The GOP have mastered the political chess game, while liberals let themselves get played again and again. It's frustrating as a modern progressive.

Even these protests are just predicable reactions the College Republicans are trying illicit. It's so transparent, but these idiots can't see it.

You give them far, far more credit than any of them derseve when you say some silly shit like that there

 

[Lord Frieza]

It is incredibly frustrating. We need to just get rid of that protesting thing and become truly modern progressives!

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I'm fucking howling

Yeah, that's a good one. Perhaps Maher could invite his friend onto his show again, so she can publicly embarrass herself, as she always does, so that we can finally put an end to this never-ending circus of bullshit

Yeah.

 

[Chumley]

But it's an idea he, himself, plays into whether he means to or not. He insists, pretty much every time he talks about it, in connecting ISIS to Islam, when the majority of Muslims are trying to distance Islam from the creed of ISIS and other extremist ideologies. He's said more than once that 'Islam has an army of extremists, something no other religion has right now.' It's no wonder people call him an Islamophobe even if, ultimately, I don't think he is.

I mostly agree, he walks into landmines because he's an old comedian who doesn't give a shit. He isn't an islamaphobe, he just has no tact sometimes.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

I thought Gaf liked Bill?
At least that what it seemed like a few months ago.

BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

GAF shit a brick when he invited Milo onto his show. It was rather entertaining. And then there was a thread after that suggesting he get fired from Real Time cause of some quote on politically incorrect over 10 years ago.

Spoiler

He wont get fired from Real Time.

 

[Lord Frieza]

BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

GAF shit a brick when he invited Milo onto his show. It was rather entertaining. And then there was a thread after that suggesting he get fired from Real Time cause of some quote on politically incorrect over 10 years ago.

Spoiler

He wont get fired from Real Time.

To be fair, Maher got a lot of hate before that, too. I feel like the reaction to him has always been pretty mixed here. The Milo thing was bad, though. Not just that he invited him, but just how the whole episode and exchange went. That really made Bill look incredibly poor and out of touch.

But then again, in this very thread you'd had people defend Milo, but then run for the hills when you mention his darker shit.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

To be fair, Maher got a lot of hate before that, too. I feel like the reaction to him has always been pretty mixed here. The Milo thing was bad, though. Not just that he invited him, but just how the whole episode and exchange went. That really made Bill look incredibly poor and out of touch.

But then again, in this very thread you'd had people defend Milo, but then run for the hills when you mention his darker shit.

I agree that interview went bad. He went in hard on Roger Stone. I guess it had to do with the drama that lead up to the Milo interview was dumb.

 

[Scarecrow]

Ann Coutler has had years to spew her dogshit in public (way more publicly than a speech at Berkeley, that's for sure)and all it's gotten her is millions of dollars, 12 best-selling books, and a loyal fanbase

Do you feel as confidant in your proposed strategy now?

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

All that proves is that a fool and his money are soon parted. It's not like Moriarty's new content is interesting lol

 

[Infinite]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

I don't recall anyone trying to "silence" Colin Moriarty

 

[Lord Frieza]

I agree that interview went bad. He went in hard on Roger Stone. I guess it had to do with the drama that lead up to the Milo interview was dumb.

I mean, I wouldn't say he really went hard on Stone, he doesn't really go hard on anyone, but it was a better interview. I really don't know what happened with Milo, to be honest. Bill isn't the best interviewer in general, but I've never seen him do so poorly, especially against a guest that gave him such ammo. He also apparently didn't know anything about Milo, which is weird, since basic research on the guy will show you what a piece of shit he is.

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

I'm sure this will be the time that Ann Coulter will be changed. This, surely, will be her Archer Bunker meets the KKK moment, and not the thousands upon thousands of moments before that she's been debated and embarrassed. This, surely, will be the time.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

This didn't answer my question.

We (society) have been listening to Ann Coulter for decades and we know who she is (that is, a racist, homophobe, etc). She's not an unknown. She's certainly not silently voting for conservative candidates, that's for sure.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I guess another question for that, okay, we're supposed to 'start' listening to people. I mean, what are we suppose to do when they deliver obviously racist and bigoted material and then they just keep going even after being mystically debated? I see a lot of this. People shout for debate, but absolutely no one wants to touch on the fact that debate, by and large, isn't working with these people. What next? I have yet to hear anyone, in this thread, or in this broad argument, give any solution past that.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

Lol remember when people found she dated a black guy

 

[benjipwns]

edit: ha^

Ann Coutler has had years to spew her dogshit in public (way more publicly than a speech at Berkeley, that's for sure)and all it's gotten her is millions of dollars, 12 best-selling books, and a loyal fanbase

And a DY-NO-MITE bestie:

 

[The Kree]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

Silencing people does work when you've got the means to get it done and the balls to follow through on it.

See Standing Rock. See the gerrymandering all throughout the midwest. See the criminal justice system and prison industrial complex that disqualifies millions of people from participating in the electoral process. Silencing people absolutely does work when done properly.

Our problem is not that we're trying to silence anyone, it's that there doesn't seem to be enough people on our side able and willing to actually get it done because so many of us are stuck on this idiotic idea that everything is equal outside the abstract, as if we're all standing on even ground and thus should treat our enemies the way we want to be treated. We lose when we aren't willing to get our hands as dirty as our enemies who have no qualms about spitting in our faces. If they get up after we knock em down, all that means is we didn't hit them hard enough.

If you're OK with insisting that we continue to operate like that in the face of legitimate evil, you must have no real skin in the game.

 

[Scarecrow]

I'm sure this will be the time that Ann Coulter will be changed. This, surely, will be her Archer Bunker meets the KKK moment, and not the thousands upon thousands of moments before that she's been debated and embarrassed. This, surely, will be the time.

The point is not to convince her, it's to convince the people she speaks to first.

,

 

[Frozenprince]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

Yeah uh. Hi.

They never listened to us in the first place.

 

[Lord Frieza]

,

But we're not talking about the people she's talking to, we're talking about her, we're talking the views that she is spewing forth. And, as noted above, and you dodged and everyone else has dodged, this is not talking about some unknown speaker with an unknown past. This is a woman who is very well known and has been doing this for years and years, and she hasn't gone away. What now?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The people she speaks to first are more hard headed than the ones in this thread trying to pretend she has anything valid to say, so how are they supposed to be reached?

 

[Kinsei]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

Again? When has the majority ever listened to minorities?

 

[pigeon]

Maybe we should consider the possibility that white supremacist groups are actually bad and shouldn't be allowed to organize on college campuses and radicalize people

 

[The Kree]

Maybe we should consider the possibility that white supremacist groups are actually bad and shouldn't be allowed to organize on college campuses and radicalize people

Ryan Reynolds wants to ask:

 

[pigeon]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

Posts like this display the problem. A white supremacist is president of the United States, but the problem is that hateful rhetoric is TOO suppressed.

Racists and sexists aren't "squeezed." They have always had control over the political and intellectual discourse. It's only very recent that that control has been challenged. Naturally the racists and sexists find this very confusing. But it's not because they don't still have a lot of power!

 

[Aaron Strife]

I don't even know where this belief that calling people out on racism, homophobia, bigotry etc is why liberals lose came from. I did that shit all the time when Obama was running and guess what, he won twice.

Instead of concern trolling about if we should just tolerate racists more, maybe just accept that pendulum politics are real?

 

[Lord Frieza]

If we really want to talk about ways in which people will stop listening to other and follow that to its natural conclusion, the best way of doing that is to delegitimize what they are saying. And what is the biggest way to do that? To stop giving them big platforms to say it. To make them have to go stand on street corners and shout like all the other crazies who are saying shit like the Lizard people are coming.

Of course, doing that is incredibly hard in the era of the internet and Fox News and 'both sides are tots the sames, guy, cross my heart' reporting on TV, but still, that's the best way to get people, in mass, to stop listening to others. Debating them away only work when those people actually care about debate, and Lord, if it's anything that the last few years have proven it's that they don't give two shits about that. It's like some of you are playing Yahtzee when these people are telling you they are going to play something else right to your face, and you just hope intense Yahtzee will make them suddenly lose at Yahtzee.

 

[rjinaz]

I guess another question for that, okay, we're supposed to 'start' listening to people. I mean, what are we suppose to do when they deliver obviously racist and bigoted material and then they just keep going even after being mystically debated? I see a lot of this. People shout for debate, but absolutely no one wants to touch on the fact that debate, by and large, isn't working with these people. What next? I have yet to hear anyone, in this thread, or in this broad argument, give any solution past that.

Well then you must ignore it. I mean it's so easy.

Spoiler

For me as a straight White man.

 

[pigeon]

Our last effort to engage in spirited debate with white supremacists actually went pretty well. The thing is, it was at Nuremberg.

 

[Cyframe]

Trying to silence people doesn't work. Two weeks ago Colin Moriarty was shouted down on twitter and resigned from his job. Now he's making 40k a month on Patreon.

The more people are squeezed, the more there's a blow back.

Unless society starts listening to each other again, this discord will continue to grow.

Keep screaming at people that they're racist, sexist, etc, and they'll keep silently voting for conservative candidates.

That isn't what happens. Let me tell you what happens.

Me: Please don't use the n word in my presence.
Them: I didn't mean anything by it.
Me: Okay, don't say it again then.
*they continue to say it again in other encounters*
Me: I really don't like you using racial slurs.
Them: *scoffs* You know that's why racism is still alive, because that word is taboo.
Me: .....
-----

With this sample encounter that has taken place in my life more times than I can count. Please elucidate me on how I was the firebrand in any situation?

You can't talk to people who don't want to have an honest dialogue. It doesn't work. It won't work with Coulter. The partitioning of responsibility to the marginalized really needs to end.

And when you say something like this, and minorities hold you at a distance. You can't complain about our response. Where is your responsibility?

 

[benjipwns]

Our last effort to engage in spirited debate with white supremacists actually went pretty well. The thing is, it was at Nuremberg.

That's a terrible example.

Especially since nobody was indicted for "white supremacy" let alone debated the merits or downsides of it.

Spoiler

And the prosecuting parties never had themselves tried for their own acts.

 

[travisbickle]

People are protesting Ann Coulter because they know exactly what she is going to say.

She can use her books/TV appearances to lie about the record of Obama, stir up hatred of immigrants, and make up stories about Muslim communities in Europe, but Universities need to set standards to maintain their reputation for discussing truths and facts.

 

[Arkeband]

I find it interesting that the republican groups inviting these speakers to campuses in the first place always fly under the radar - the people they're inviting aren't always Republican or even conservative, they're just crazy, hateful fucks.

Like is this the only way they can think of to "protect free speech"? And are there any examples of "free speech" actually being infringed upon outside of these situations they themselves create?

 

[benjipwns]

This is the group usually inviting them: http://students.yaf.org/young-americans-for-freedom/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Americans_for_Freedom

YAF kinda prides itself on "turning the left's antics back at them" or whatever explanation you want to use. Counterprotests, etc. Think Andrew Breitbart. Milo if he was less about himself and more about "principles" whatever they may be.

College Republicans are more the type to work for campaigns, do phonebanks, etc. Think Jeb Bush, President-elect of France.

edit: I should note there is a YAF that split and then rejoined that's kinda inbetween the two. They'd probably be more like tea partiers or Ted Cruz where they still want to be sorta respectable in the end so they won't go all the way the other/rest of YAF does to where they just like to rile up people.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

Yeah, that's a good one. Perhaps Maher could invite his friend onto his show again, so she can publicly embarrass herself, as she always does, so that we can finally put an end to this never-ending circus of bullshit

Yeah.

That's not what we were suggesting. This is about a speech on campus. Bill isn't going to do shit because he's too much of a coward to challenge his friends.

I guess another question for that, okay, we're supposed to 'start' listening to people. I mean, what are we suppose to do when they deliver obviously racist and bigoted material and then they just keep going even after being mystically debated? I see a lot of this. People shout for debate, but absolutely no one wants to touch on the fact that debate, by and large, isn't working with these people. What next? I have yet to hear anyone, in this thread, or in this broad argument, give any solution past that.

If you open the door to draw line in the sand on the most basic of freedoms we take for granted here, you open the door for others to draw them too. And for how long and to what end? Where do we draw the line there? Means to an end matters. Shutting them out brings you Trump.

I don't even know where this belief that calling people out on racism, homophobia, bigotry etc is why liberals lose came from. I did that shit all the time when Obama was running and guess what, he won twice.

Instead of concern trolling about if we should just tolerate racists more, maybe just accept that pendulum politics are real?

Anecdotal and irrelevant as to why people voted for Obama.

 

[MadJackChurchill]

Is free speech partisan now?

I wouldn't shed a tear if she got hit by a truck tomorrow, but she should be able to say whatever dumb bullshit she has to say.

On a privately owned TV network. Is my appointment next week?

 

[pigeon]

If you open the door to draw line in the sand on the most basic of freedoms we take for granted here, you open the door for others to draw them too. And for how long and to what end? Where do we draw the line there?

Uh, at Nazis?

Shutting them out brings you Trump.

Literally this is the opposite of the truth.

We just got Trump by legitimizing him and treating his white supremacy as worthy of public debate.

 

[Siegcram]

Oh cool, a new crop of people utilizing logical fallacies trying to sound enlightened. You guys so smart.

 

[MastaKilla]

I hate them both, they seem perfect for each other

 

[Lord Frieza]

If you open the door to draw line in the sand on the most basic of freedoms we take for granted here, you open the door for others to draw them too. And for how long and to what end? Where do we draw the line there? Means to an end matters. Shutting them out brings you Trump.

I'd be happy to discuss that, but you dodged my question completely. What next?

 

[Machina]

I've had a lot of time to think about this without commenting on it directly, but seeing GAF's reaction to this in particular sticks in my craw a bit. Bill Maher is not an asshole because he is backing up Ann Coulter. He has never agreed with silencing the other side. He believes in letting them put their bullshit out there for all to see so they can be rightfully judged.

Coulter is a massive idiot, I mean fuck she wrote a book titled "In Trump, we Trust", and now she has fallen off his wagon as soon as she's sold a few hundred thousand copies. Here's the real problem though: Berkeley trying to shut her out, isn't going to make her any less popular. It didn't make Milo any less popular either, he did himself in when he accidentally put it out there that he's okay with kiddy fiddling. It is what it is and a group of whiny college students throwing their toys out of the cot isn't going to change that, in fact it does nothing but make the rest of us look bad.

I don't know about you, but turning Universities into echo chambers doesn't sound too smart to me. It sounds like Trump University. Seriously Socrates is rolling in his grave over this shit.

 

[radios shipping overview]

The idea that Ann Coulter is going to suddenly deflate and scurry out of the spotlight because some erudite liberal heckler in a Berkeley crowd nailed her with that one perfect zinger is just too cute

 

[entremet]

You give them far, far more credit than any of them derseve when you say some silly shit like that there

They've been trolling Berkeley for a while now. Why do they keep inviting these controversial characters?

 

[LordOfChaos]

I've always felt instinctively that they were boning after each show togehter, for some reason...

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

GAF shit a brick when he invited Milo onto his show. It was rather entertaining. And then there was a thread after that suggesting he get fired from Real Time cause of some quote on politically incorrect over 10 years ago.

Spoiler

He wont get fired from Real Time.

Bill Maher was one of the few liberals who was SMART enough to let Milo, the p.o.s. troll, to speak his mind freely and basically expose himself as the fraud he is

guess what, Milo's career was done just weeks after he got that big platform to speak his mind

 

[Toxi]

The current President of the United States got completely crushed in several debates viewed by millions of people on national TV.

Didn't stop him from winning anyway.

Bill Maher was one of the few liberals who was SMART enough to let Milo, the p.o.s. troll, to speak his mind freely and basically expose himself as the fraud he is

guess what, Milo's career was done just weeks after he got that big platform to speak his mind

Milo's career ended because Republicans found out he defended pedophiles in past statements, statements made long before Milo went on Maher's show.

You would know this if you were paying attention at the time.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I've had a lot of time to think about this without commenting on it directly, but seeing GAF's reaction to this in particular sticks in my craw a bit. Bill Maher is not an asshole because he is backing up Ann Coulter. He has never agreed with silencing the other side. He believes in letting them put their bullshit out there for all to see so they can be rightfully judged.

Coulter is a massive idiot, I mean fuck she wrote a book titled "In Trump, we Trust", and now she has fallen off his wagon as soon as she's sold a few hundred thousand copies. Here's the real problem though: Berkeley trying to shut her out, isn't going to make her any less popular. It didn't make Milo any less popular either, he did himself in when he accidentally put it out there that he's okay with kiddy fiddling. It is what it is and a group of whiny college students throwing their toys out of the cot isn't going to change that, in fact it does nothing but make the rest of us look bad.

I don't know about you, but turning Universities into echo chambers doesn't sound too smart to me. It sounds like Trump University. Seriously Socrates is rolling in his grave over this shit.

So, protesting something, also part of the much lauded First Amendment, is 'throwing their toys out of the cot?' Standing up to racism and bigotry, and worse than Coulter, eugenic peddalers and Neo-Nazis, is a bad thing?

And what was Socrates's advice for dealing with Neo-Nazis? Missed that? Also, care to refresh me on what happened to Socrates?