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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
hydrophilic attack
Member
One thing I didn't get: It was implied that the machines wanted a constant struggle against androids in order to still have an enemy to defeat, as per their objective and in order to keep up an evolutionary pressure on themselves so they would continue to evolve. So does that mean the machines were the power that originally created YoRHa? The YoRHa models were made from machine cores. And the machines had material recovery units to help them recycle parts. We also know they had the means to launch stuff into space which is possibly how the bunker got into place. It would also explain why the YoRHa plan was so cruel. Those machines wouldn't give a fuck about androids suffering
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
No, i think it was just a happy coincidence. The machines way of not overwhelming the androids was to introduce different evolutionary branches like pascal and the forest king to weaken the overall collective.
I don't even think it's a happy coincidence so much as it's there to drive home the point the gap between the androids and machines is rather minimal.
Like, from the start there's a certain degree of uncanniness in how the androids refer to machines. I repeatedly found myself wondering if they realized how silly they sounded and that's the point. It's just another tragic facet of humanity they replicate. They and their opposition aren't very different on the surface and almost exactly the same st their core, but they're waging war anyway because of seeded prejudice and propaganda.
Edit: I kinda feel like 9S is one of the explorations of prejudice/racism in the medium (though that isn't saying much.)
It's as subtle as the stuff with Devola and Popola, but it's there.
Like, from the start there's a certain degree of uncanniness in how the androids refer to machines. I repeatedly found myself wondering if they realized how silly they sounded and that's the point. It's just another tragic facet of humanity they replicate. They and their opposition aren't very different on the surface and almost exactly the same st their core, but they're waging war anyway because of seeded prejudice and propaganda.
Edit: I kinda feel like 9S is one of the explorations of prejudice/racism in the medium (though that isn't saying much.)
It's as subtle as the stuff with Devola and Popola, but it's there.
Yeah but look at the outcome during the game, A2 backed out during the forest kingdom.
That's what I thought at first too, but like it's been said, it was just a happy coincidence. The androids themselves created YoRHa to create a false sense of hope/purpose (they have multiple space stations too, but only bunker dedicated to YoRHa). I think they used machine cores because they didn't want the androids they created for fighting to be as sentient and independent as regular androids, which backfired because the machines built by aliens turned out to be an evolving life form and became exactly that.
Edit: Found the relevant information as to why the androids used machine cores when they created YoRHa:
From the [Top Secret] Black Box archive file.
She got bored messing with them. Lol, now that I think about it, she didn't even seem injured at all.
Hmmm...im pretty sure Taro said Automata follows ending D and E is not canon but can't check for sure now(mobile and at work).
Don't know if this was mentioned/pointed out yet but... am I the only one who got the feeling that the Simone Beauvoir boss fight was inspired from PSO's phase 2 version of Vol Opt?
Totally reminds me of it! The missiles, running around the laser.
https://youtu.be/j-xFwMIztbc?t=265
I freaking looooooooove Nier Automata!
Totally reminds me of it! The missiles, running around the laser.
https://youtu.be/j-xFwMIztbc?t=265
I freaking looooooooove Nier Automata!
DrunkShogun
Member
Doesn't Emil mention "him" somewhere during his sidequest in automata. Doesn't make sense following Ending D
since no one should remember Nier since he was erased.
I thought he was only erased from the memories of Replicants? They wouldn't have considered how Emil was affected as a magical weapon / human, since at that point they believe he's dead.
TatteredHat
Member
He does, but I can't quite recall if he was referring to
Nier
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Let's just assume the happy thing and not the sad thing.
Son Of Sparda
Member
The worst part was him doing the E ending afterwards. I was like:
"please don't destroy any save files
please don't destroy any save files
please don't destroy any save files
..."
Hahaha.
It's cool though, some people don't care about stories in their games and that's okay. I was just slightly irritated that he constantly compared this game with other games and said that they had ripped off of other titles.
Wasn't him the true Emil though? Atleast that was I understood, but maybe I did got it wrong.
That was basically all the messages I got lol Ending E isn't that nice if you got some depression going on.
hydrophilic attack
Member
One thing I like about the messages you can write for the E sequence, is that they are not all positive. I decided to troll other players by writing something like "You are all alone, in other words, just give up". There was also stuff like "shitty game, shitty world" lol. So the people who made the game seem to have been self-aware that several people would criticize the open-world aspects.
Yeah, that archive file makes it pretty clear YoRHa was created by androids. Thanks! I wonder who these high-level androids are, that has so much more information and agency than all the low-level grunts
Yeah, that archive file makes it pretty clear YoRHa was created by androids. Thanks! I wonder who these high-level androids are, that has so much more information and agency than all the low-level grunts
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Jackass: Revengeance.
Where Jackass hacks and zandatsus her way to the android illuminati.
Believe.
Where Jackass hacks and zandatsus her way to the android illuminati.
Believe.
I know it wouldn't have been a tonal match for most scenarios in the game, but the thing about machine cores being structured like plant cells means they were forgoing zandatsu opportunities in the game as it is. Maybe it could have been inserted in the scene where A2 kills Immanuel. Or if post-mindwipe Pascal feels like he needs an infusion of electrolytes.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
All kidding aside I'm kinda glad it's relatively more straight forward this time. By the end zandatsu felt more like busy work.
DrunkShogun
Member
Didn't think of that option oddly enough. Guess Nier had a slightly more sad ending then I originally thought. Glad I've beaten the because the potential story revealed at the concert might make ending E lose a lot of its charm.
Which to be fair is transcribed in the game.
Yep. Said this before, but this is something the game is not getting as much credit as it deserves. Even the Drama CD became a nice little cutscene in Automata. Makes me much more open to future external content, too. It'll be easier to not see it as "this should be in the game" when they went out of their way to add as much as possible.
hydrophilic attack
Member
So I decided to write a short guide of what side quests are worth doing. I am dividing them, based on narrative weight, into skippable, recommended and essential. To unlock
Determination you need all weapons, so I will also mark which side quests give you weapons, even if they are not worth doing on their own narrative merits. Will similarly note other side quests that are worthwhile due to their reward.
Jean-Pauls Melancholy: Recommended after you unlock fast travel
Machine Examination 1 and 2: Skippable, do them if you want some background on the first boss
Family Squabble: Recommended
Animal Care: Essential plus gives a good reward
Turf War: Recommended
Robo Dojo series: Barely recommended on its narrative merits. The battles are really annoying and in later stages he has way too much HP in my opinion. The reward for the final quest is necessary if you want to upgrade all your pods though. Do it with a high level
and I guess its not too bad
Lost Girl: Essential
Supply Traders Request: Mandatory for story progression
The Managers Request: Unlocks later quests (one of which eventually gives a pod program) and worth doing for that reason.
Camp Development: Would be skippable, but it unlocks a couple of later quests and the best shop in the game for curative items (the only one that sells Full Recovery items)
Anemones Past: Barely recommended on its narrative merits, but gives you an item you will need if you want to level up all your pods
Amnesia: Essential
Resistance Disappearance: Recommended, plus gives you a pod program
Jackasss Research: Recommended (wait until you are a bit stronger if you are having problems beating it)
Improving Communications: Skippable
Investigating Communications: Skippable but may be needed to unlock the next two quests (does anyone know?)
Terminal Repairs: Would be skippable, but I think its necessary to unlock the next quest, so do it
Find a Present: Very short but has a narrative pay-off later, so I would say its essential. Gives you a weapon and a pod program too, as reward
Data Analysis Freak: Essential
Data Analysis Freak 2: Essential, plus gives you a weapon
Lord of the Valley: Recommended
Vanquish the Bad Bot: Mandatory for story progression
Play With Us!: Recommended
Storage Element: Skippable
Half-Wit Inventor: Recommended. Would be skippable but one of the rewards you get half-way through is worth getting, so at that point you may as well complete it
Idiot Savant: Recommended (and short)
Game Dev Machineseries: Skippable
Speed Star: Skippable, unless you enjoy the races
memories: Essential
Photographs: Skippable
11Bs Memento: Recommended
Treasure Hunt at the Castle: Recommended
The Wandering Couple: Essential
Data on the Old World: Recommended, though use a guide if you get frustrated
Culinary Researcher: Skippable
YoRHa Betrayers: Essential
Reconnaissance Squad: Skippable
Request: Recommended
Errand: Recommended
Request: Recommended
Heritage of the Past: Huge fucking pain in the ass, but gives a weapon so I guess you have to do it
Retrieve the Confidential Intel: Essential, plus gives a pod program
Sorting Trouble series: I would say the last one has enough of a narrative to make the series recommended. Also, the last one gives you a pod program
Stamp collecting: Essential
Parade Escort: Skippable
Gathering Keepsakes: Recommended
The Weapon Dealers Request: Mandatory for story progression
The Recluse series: Recommended
Determination: Essential
If I missed anything, let me know.
Welp, most of them ended up as recommended, so maybe this whole list is a waste of time
Emils
Jean-Pauls Melancholy: Recommended after you unlock fast travel
Machine Examination 1 and 2: Skippable, do them if you want some background on the first boss
Family Squabble: Recommended
Animal Care: Essential plus gives a good reward
Turf War: Recommended
Robo Dojo series: Barely recommended on its narrative merits. The battles are really annoying and in later stages he has way too much HP in my opinion. The reward for the final quest is necessary if you want to upgrade all your pods though. Do it with a high level
9S
Lost Girl: Essential
Supply Traders Request: Mandatory for story progression
The Managers Request: Unlocks later quests (one of which eventually gives a pod program) and worth doing for that reason.
Camp Development: Would be skippable, but it unlocks a couple of later quests and the best shop in the game for curative items (the only one that sells Full Recovery items)
Anemones Past: Barely recommended on its narrative merits, but gives you an item you will need if you want to level up all your pods
Amnesia: Essential
Resistance Disappearance: Recommended, plus gives you a pod program
Jackasss Research: Recommended (wait until you are a bit stronger if you are having problems beating it)
Improving Communications: Skippable
Investigating Communications: Skippable but may be needed to unlock the next two quests (does anyone know?)
Terminal Repairs: Would be skippable, but I think its necessary to unlock the next quest, so do it
Find a Present: Very short but has a narrative pay-off later, so I would say its essential. Gives you a weapon and a pod program too, as reward
Data Analysis Freak: Essential
Data Analysis Freak 2: Essential, plus gives you a weapon
Lord of the Valley: Recommended
Vanquish the Bad Bot: Mandatory for story progression
Play With Us!: Recommended
Storage Element: Skippable
Half-Wit Inventor: Recommended. Would be skippable but one of the rewards you get half-way through is worth getting, so at that point you may as well complete it
Idiot Savant: Recommended (and short)
Game Dev Machineseries: Skippable
Speed Star: Skippable, unless you enjoy the races
Emils
Photographs: Skippable
11Bs Memento: Recommended
Treasure Hunt at the Castle: Recommended
The Wandering Couple: Essential
Data on the Old World: Recommended, though use a guide if you get frustrated
Culinary Researcher: Skippable
YoRHa Betrayers: Essential
Reconnaissance Squad: Skippable
Devolas
Popolas
The Twins
Heritage of the Past: Huge fucking pain in the ass, but gives a weapon so I guess you have to do it
Retrieve the Confidential Intel: Essential, plus gives a pod program
Sorting Trouble series: I would say the last one has enough of a narrative to make the series recommended. Also, the last one gives you a pod program
Stamp collecting: Essential
Parade Escort: Skippable
Gathering Keepsakes: Recommended
The Weapon Dealers Request: Mandatory for story progression
The Recluse series: Recommended
Emils
If I missed anything, let me know.
Welp, most of them ended up as recommended, so maybe this whole list is a waste of time
It's so easy to have a shitton of money in this game that I would recommend Half-Wit Inventor too. Just having a new landmark in the environment makes it worth it.
Gathering Keepsakes is amazing, though, and since you marked Emil's Memories as Essential, people who follow your guide and decide to only do the essential ones would miss on a damn fine story bit that wouldn't give them any trouble at all.
Gathering Keepsakes is amazing, though, and since you marked Emil's Memories as Essential, people who follow your guide and decide to only do the essential ones would miss on a damn fine story bit that wouldn't give them any trouble at all.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Only the last bit is really interesting. The rest of the quest is too long and tedious for that short pay-off to make it essential, in my opinion. YMMV I guess
About Half-Wit Inventor, I guess I should change it to recommended, since you will already have put in a bunch of money by the time you get the pouch
The desert fight is pretty fun, imo.
I wrote up a feature in RPG Site on Nier Automata this morning:
Death, Sex, and Love: A closer look at NieR Automata
Probably my biggest takeaway from this incredible game.
Death, Sex, and Love: A closer look at NieR Automata
Probably my biggest takeaway from this incredible game.
Lmao, I'll probably use it in the future when people inevitably ask what sidequests are worth doing
Also, put some more respek on Father Servo's name lol
Ooh, more reading​
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Just a correction. The scene with 9s stabbing 2b in the chest was in the resource collection tower (soul box i think?) where you have to hack through it, when it showed 2b in hackerspace absorbing 9s's memories, not during the multi 2B fight.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
Wow I never considered a different meaning behind "****". That actually makes a lot of sense.
I'm still not sure why 2B carried on like she did or how she actually felt about 9S. It seems likely she did start the nickname Nines but the exact nature of her feelings may be left ambiguous on purpose.
Rickenslacker
Banned
It's something I actually wish wasn't kept ambiguous in that scene on first go, because the juvenile obvious fit for the censor just makes it come off as crass and pretty dumb.
I can't say whether or not they ultimately matter as I think that ends up delving into a deeper question, but you can pick one and then try the other after and it'll be no big deal.
Leona Lewis
Banned
I wonder how the original Japanese text reads.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I think that's the point.
A lot of the game is recontextualising previous scenes once additional knowledge is learnt.
I actually like that it's more subtly done here than the first game where it's just you literally know what the enemy is saying now.
The Drama CD happens before Ending E, they co exist and are both canon.
Also the concert has a scene where 9S said "2B is the light" and sense 9S loves 2B, and she tells him the same thing in the main game......well that article Levito wrote might need to be re written, lol.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Just playthrough the game.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Right, but what good is it thinking that 9S wants to fuck 2B? It frames it as a really goofy out of nowhere anime perv scene. With it being upfront and seeing what Adam is actually prying into with 9S, it makes it more intriguing from the start and I think would make for even more interest in delving into route B.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Because he clearly... kinda does want to fuck her?
That's the thing, the duality of his love/lust and resentment/hate for 2B and her role in his life is what makes the relationship interesting. He clearly needs her presence in his life due to his own sense of loneliness and want for companionship but in order to do that he needs to endure his constant "deaths".
Rickenslacker
Banned
Does he? Can a YoRHa unit fuck in the first place? Do YoRHa even have genitals to fuck with? This is why it gets kind of eye rolling because you do get the vibes between the two, but it just makes that scene in particular come off clumsily and Adam looking less in tune with things and just spouting nonsense.
The drug side quest make a point of arousal and violence being interconnected between androids so it's can really be both. I'm sure the germans have a word for it.
It all works for me. You thinking he means that 9S wants to fuck her. Then realizing later that nah, he probably would rather kill her. But oh wait, we also got horny fans who probably got a little shook when they saw it and assumed it was "fuck", because it could've easily applied to them too.
Even if "kill" is ultimately what it is, I love that it just made you sit up and go "Oh shit, they went there huh"
Eyerolling is the last word I'd use to describe that moment.
Even if "kill" is ultimately what it is, I love that it just made you sit up and go "Oh shit, they went there huh"
Eyerolling is the last word I'd use to describe that moment.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Hmm, here's the thing though. Why can't we talk about sex as a sort of intensity of emotion? Like taro said, why can we talk about a love between a man and a woman, but not about sex?
Like alot about this game also talks about what the androids inherited from us, and ultimately the legacy we'll leave behind when our time has come. When you pick 9S for the final fight, he laments why he still longs for a touch of something long gone. Like the machines and androids have clearly learnt our traits, but as seen throughout the game they struggle to reconcile that and their own nature as inorganic, ungrowing beings too.
Also I think that's meant to be ambiguous anyway. not straight up saying that he wants to kill her. His conflict about the way he feels about that relationship is, again, what makes it interesting and tragic.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I think we can, but in that instance we're Mad Libbing in a verb, and the two candidates used here are expressing opposite intense emotions, but in terms of execution I think that the way it leaves things vague does not benefit the moment. There's nothing subtle about how affectionate 9S comes across to 2B in route A, so having it shown upfront would be an unnerving curveball, especially in light of the happily ever after A ending.
And yes, this is what would make the interaction between 9S and Adam more interesting in that respect as well, because it's him fucking with 9S, so you see him confronting those feelings for what they are.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
If you're talking about the way the players feel at that moment, than yeah sure, I can understand that. Like how adam was going on about the hate he feels in 9S, but the **** just makes it seem like going for cheap gag? I can see what you mean by that.
But to me that's just another representation of the way this game tells its story. I've said it before, but I thought route A was straight up just mediocre writing until you finish the entire damn game. Like its weirdly recursive in a way that challenges you to constantly look back at past events from a new revelation you learnt, and it could hurt the moment to moment storytelling. But like with the **** example, you're right that it could look at a cheap gag when the player first comes across it, but I'm kinda fascinated by moments like this inserted into the game where you can find a whole new meaning once you've gained new knowledge in the latter parts of the story.
Actually all this talk about recontextualising past scenes reminded me about another game that tries to do it but fails so spectacularly: heavy rain. God the way they tried to create that twist was so bad.
But to me that's just another representation of the way this game tells its story. I've said it before, but I thought route A was straight up just mediocre writing until you finish the entire damn game. Like its weirdly recursive in a way that challenges you to constantly look back at past events from a new revelation you learnt, and it could hurt the moment to moment storytelling. But like with the **** example, you're right that it could look at a cheap gag when the player first comes across it, but I'm kinda fascinated by moments like this inserted into the game where you can find a whole new meaning once you've gained new knowledge in the latter parts of the story.
Actually all this talk about recontextualising past scenes reminded me about another game that tries to do it but fails so spectacularly: heavy rain. God the way they tried to create that twist was so bad.
Rickenslacker
Banned
To fuck or kill is really the ultimate game dichotomy now that I think about it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
That's like, life, man.
Welcome to the crew lol
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