I'm curious whether they would opt to use their school uniforms over Phantom Thief costumes as default for a fan-servicey spinoff game like Q2 or another Arena.you know, it'd actually be kind of cute if they did to haru what they did with chie's design in pq, where she is more jacket than human
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[SPOILERS] Persona 5 Spoiler Thread | Steal your heart; steel yourself
- Thread starter Nachos
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The Xtortionist
Member
yes
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
What if they create phantom thieves costumes for every persona 3+4 characters.
Mitsuru was basically wearing one in the arena games.
wondergorls
Member
Hmm so I beat the game last night! I have some opinions!
I think some of the story beats were pretty predictable, especially Akecki. The story was good, not amazing for me. I didn't really see the Igor twist coming though. IDK I think the first few dungeons I didn't really enjoy because they were pretty bland, but after Futaba's they got better.I found the first 40 hours to be pretty meh but it did go exponentially up afterwards, especially when the monster fuse system becomes really addictive. I've only played persona 3 before, and I think that one had a lot more ~fantasy~ and mystery to it which I think this game missed (for me).
I did get too like the characters a bit too but that's pretty natural when you spend 90 hours with them right? Yusuke is pretty funny, and i loved Haru's introduction with Morgana lol.
The ending was cute which is nice.Pretty conclusive. IDK I would of liked another wow moment apart from the Trickster reveal.
I did like the big trickster persona. He just born from protagonist heart right? I kinda liked the idea that the general public had a new cognition, that they didn't want to be brainless zombies, so a new god was born, to defeat the old one since that was the new will of the people. But that's probably not what happened and we just got a use are spirit power! ending right??
I think some of the story beats were pretty predictable, especially Akecki. The story was good, not amazing for me. I didn't really see the Igor twist coming though. IDK I think the first few dungeons I didn't really enjoy because they were pretty bland, but after Futaba's they got better.I found the first 40 hours to be pretty meh but it did go exponentially up afterwards, especially when the monster fuse system becomes really addictive. I've only played persona 3 before, and I think that one had a lot more ~fantasy~ and mystery to it which I think this game missed (for me).
I did get too like the characters a bit too but that's pretty natural when you spend 90 hours with them right? Yusuke is pretty funny, and i loved Haru's introduction with Morgana lol.
The ending was cute which is nice.Pretty conclusive. IDK I would of liked another wow moment apart from the Trickster reveal.
I did like the big trickster persona. He just born from protagonist heart right? I kinda liked the idea that the general public had a new cognition, that they didn't want to be brainless zombies, so a new god was born, to defeat the old one since that was the new will of the people. But that's probably not what happened and we just got a use are spirit power! ending right??
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I think you were supposed to suspect Akechi. The real twist is that the Phantom Thieves knew all along and were bamboozling him the whole time.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
They hid it in a kinda dumb way though. 
"Hey you know those weird blurred out parts? It was you suspecting akechi all along!"
"Hey you know those weird blurred out parts? It was you suspecting akechi all along!"
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
They hid it in a kinda dumb way though.
"Hey you know those weird blurred out parts? It was you suspecting akechi all along!"
Yeah, in hindsight it's kind of clumsy how the drugs exclusively fogged up those parts at precisely the right moment. I think the payoff was worth it, though.
I agree. It didn't feel like the devs expected you to be surprised with Akechi. Igor, on the other hand....
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I mean not to bring things back to Nier, but that part especially really didn't play super well in comparison.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I mean not to bring things back to Nier, but that part especially really didn't play super well in comparison.
I've got my own issues with that one
Automata was definitely more natural, though.Elaugaufein
Member
Its sorta both I think. The belief in the Phantom Thieves (and against Yldaboath) allows Joker to unchain Arsene and produce Satanael. Though to punish rather than take over.
He did die but they didn't recast him for the Japanese version, instead they pieced together lines of dialogue from the previous games.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I wonder if that means we'll get someone else other than igor going forward because it seems kinda strange for the japanese voice team to be reluctant to recast igor.
Also strikes me as a kinda sad job of having to piece together dialogue based on samples of a recently dead person that they're probably familiar with.
Also strikes me as a kinda sad job of having to piece together dialogue based on samples of a recently dead person that they're probably familiar with.
Lightning Lord
Banned
I guess that explains why Igor had very little to say at the end of P5. It's a shame because I was hoping for him to talk some more after saving him.
I see. It was cool to hear the regular Igor voice after the reveal.
paradox121
Member
Finally finished last night. I generally loved the game but since this is the spoiler thread I'll focus in on story.
I think the story starts off strongly with the Kamoshida stuff and general 'adults suck' mentality, wobbles a bit when everyone (particularly Ryuji) gets too big for their boots, and then just about sticks the landing with the Akechi/Igor reveals.
I do think the way the Akechi reveal is handled, and I'm particularly thinking about that solid ~2hr block post Nijima's palace, is just shoddy storytelling. It's weird to create a reveal that necessitates cutting out bits of the story earlier, purely so that later on the game can go 'Aha! Bet you didn't see this coming!'. Coupled with the fake out death which definitely isn't worth the subsequent half an hour exposition dump it takes to explain it, and that whole sequence just left me feeling a bit bemused.
I think the Igor reveal is better though. Being able to play on the notion that everyone is expecting a different voice anyway is a neat trick, as is the prison imagery initially seeming to be a projection of the MC's own feelings, but in reality is because he wants to keep you contained. Weirdly though of the final bosses, Yaldabaoth was by far the easiest and Akechi the hardest, mainly because I hadn't healed up beforehand.
I think the story starts off strongly with the Kamoshida stuff and general 'adults suck' mentality, wobbles a bit when everyone (particularly Ryuji) gets too big for their boots, and then just about sticks the landing with the Akechi/Igor reveals.
I do think the way the Akechi reveal is handled, and I'm particularly thinking about that solid ~2hr block post Nijima's palace, is just shoddy storytelling. It's weird to create a reveal that necessitates cutting out bits of the story earlier, purely so that later on the game can go 'Aha! Bet you didn't see this coming!'. Coupled with the fake out death which definitely isn't worth the subsequent half an hour exposition dump it takes to explain it, and that whole sequence just left me feeling a bit bemused.
I think the Igor reveal is better though. Being able to play on the notion that everyone is expecting a different voice anyway is a neat trick, as is the prison imagery initially seeming to be a projection of the MC's own feelings, but in reality is because he wants to keep you contained. Weirdly though of the final bosses, Yaldabaoth was by far the easiest and Akechi the hardest, mainly because I hadn't healed up beforehand.
Vlaphor
Member
Just beat the a game a few minutes ago, wanted to share my thoughts.
First off, how is this game taking people over 100 hours to complete, unless they're on hard mode? I did it on normal in 75. I kept thinking that there would be more past the final boss, but nope. Kinda felt anticlimactic in that regard.
In terms of gameplay, I'll say that this is probably the best playing JRPG currently out, and I'm afraid it'll ruin me for other turn based JRPG's in the future. The level of QOL enhancements you find in this game here are something that should be a standard for any turn-based JRPG going forward.
In terms of characters and story, I gotta say that I don't think any of these characters really hold a candle to the cast of P4. The characters in P4 felt more like a crew, the ones in P5 never really had that level of cohesion for me. I never really felt like they could hang out with each other and that I was the central focus of the entire group. The P4 team still had you as their leader, but they could be friends with each other as well. Speaking of characters, the cast of P4 felt more like actual people as well, instead of various archetypes, which is how I'd consider most of the cast of P5. P5's cast had little interaction with each other outside the designated confidant sections, and that did make it feel a bit stale.
Finally, in terms of the most important part of Persona, the waifu's, I'd only really consider Ann and Takemi as P5 waifu's. I mean, I still dated different six women, but that's just because dating one is great, so six must be amazing, right? Still, nothing in this game compares to the waifu trio of Rise, Chie, and Yukiko. I'll probably still buy this Ann figure (http://myfigurecollection.net/item/520673), but unless they make a Takemi figure, that'll probably be all of the P5 merch I buy, compared to the mountains of P4 stuff I own. I somehow doubt that P5 will get the number of spinoff's that P4 got, simply due to the fact that the interesting characters of P4 helped propel those many spinoffs. I do like Morgana over Teddie though.
First off, how is this game taking people over 100 hours to complete, unless they're on hard mode? I did it on normal in 75. I kept thinking that there would be more past the final boss, but nope. Kinda felt anticlimactic in that regard.
In terms of gameplay, I'll say that this is probably the best playing JRPG currently out, and I'm afraid it'll ruin me for other turn based JRPG's in the future. The level of QOL enhancements you find in this game here are something that should be a standard for any turn-based JRPG going forward.
In terms of characters and story, I gotta say that I don't think any of these characters really hold a candle to the cast of P4. The characters in P4 felt more like a crew, the ones in P5 never really had that level of cohesion for me. I never really felt like they could hang out with each other and that I was the central focus of the entire group. The P4 team still had you as their leader, but they could be friends with each other as well. Speaking of characters, the cast of P4 felt more like actual people as well, instead of various archetypes, which is how I'd consider most of the cast of P5. P5's cast had little interaction with each other outside the designated confidant sections, and that did make it feel a bit stale.
Finally, in terms of the most important part of Persona, the waifu's, I'd only really consider Ann and Takemi as P5 waifu's. I mean, I still dated different six women, but that's just because dating one is great, so six must be amazing, right? Still, nothing in this game compares to the waifu trio of Rise, Chie, and Yukiko. I'll probably still buy this Ann figure (http://myfigurecollection.net/item/520673), but unless they make a Takemi figure, that'll probably be all of the P5 merch I buy, compared to the mountains of P4 stuff I own. I somehow doubt that P5 will get the number of spinoff's that P4 got, simply due to the fact that the interesting characters of P4 helped propel those many spinoffs. I do like Morgana over Teddie though.
Elaugaufein
Member
Probably completionist runs. At least that's what took me so long.
The Social Rank up scenes are longer than the hangouts and stat raising events so the more game time efficient you are, the less real time until you max everyone.
Likewise doing dungeons in 1 day is slower in real time than leaving when you get low on SP.
And grinding materials​ to craft everything once can take a while.
Then you need to get all the Treasure Demons, Reaper grind and spend a few hours fusing Persona that you'll never have a need for to complete the compendium.
And Fishing / Video Games can take ages depending on lucky / skilled you are.
It took me 133 hours to beat the game on normal, and I didn't max out all my social stats nor get anywhere to rank 10 for all confidants.
I'm sure Atlus will go by your opinion of the characters in deciding whether to do spin offs.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh right.
Fishing.
Is that where people spent most of those hours on?
I did it once and went "Oh right."
"Fishing."
Fishing.
Is that where people spent most of those hours on?
I did it once and went "Oh right."
"Fishing."
Elaugaufein
Member
Its pretty useless except for Black Cloth and the Guardian trophy but the Guardian is fairly luck based if you're trying to catch on your 2nd visit and can take a while as a result.
I'll probably spend more time when I do my 2nd cycle to have more Black Cloths.
lucablight
Member
I just finished the game and it is fantastic but I really wish it had a larger OST. It felt like I was listening to the same 4 or 5 tracks for most of the game.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Alright, if it's mostly side stuff then I understand now I guess. Forgot entirely about fishing.
Yeah I finished at 83 hours too and didn't really feel like I was rushing.
Yeah I finished at 83 hours too and didn't really feel like I was rushing.
Strangely enough, Vox just posted a video that made me think about P5: Japan's rising right-wing nationalism | Border Dispatch #1.
I finished the game last week and skimmed a bit of the commentary and thoughts here. I was sort of puzzled by some sentiments expressed.
I thought P5 was very obviously less character-driven than P3/P4, but that's not to its detriment. The story aimed at something that P3/P4 did not, so being fixated on the quality of characters and their stories is less important than the ultimate message conveyed, which was done much more clearly than its predecessors. It is incredibly hard not to think about the real world when playing through the game, after all, unless you don't follow news.
The integration of confidant ranks into the gameplay was fantastic, and increased the value of cultivating relationships and the value of deciding who to spend time with. There's also a lot of small details around the world that surprised me, like the guy selling steamed yams in the alley next to the clinic in the fall, or Makoto stalking you during the time she is supposed to investigate your group, or the prevalence of the shady Shibuya guys before the Kaneshiro palace. I liked the 'no name' NPCs and their gradual developments over time too, like the Foreign Barker and the guitar player with horrible songs. Even the world's grumpiest Old Man with the radio was pretty cool. The devs put the old people and the kids in the same area so you could catch their vastly different worldviews with the change in daytime/nighttime.
I was slightly disappointed that the final boss would turn out to be a "god", but I also understand that the "will of the general public" needed to be catalyzed into something coherent to fight as a final boss.
Playing through P5, I thought a lot of, "Oh, so it was like this for Japan for some time." The game has been in development for 6-7 years, with the original ideas probably laid down in its early planning stages, so one could probably assume the ideas and message espoused in P5 are not recent feelings. I think maybe we in the west have something to learn from Japan.
I finished the game last week and skimmed a bit of the commentary and thoughts here. I was sort of puzzled by some sentiments expressed.
I thought P5 was very obviously less character-driven than P3/P4, but that's not to its detriment. The story aimed at something that P3/P4 did not, so being fixated on the quality of characters and their stories is less important than the ultimate message conveyed, which was done much more clearly than its predecessors. It is incredibly hard not to think about the real world when playing through the game, after all, unless you don't follow news.
The integration of confidant ranks into the gameplay was fantastic, and increased the value of cultivating relationships and the value of deciding who to spend time with. There's also a lot of small details around the world that surprised me, like the guy selling steamed yams in the alley next to the clinic in the fall, or Makoto stalking you during the time she is supposed to investigate your group, or the prevalence of the shady Shibuya guys before the Kaneshiro palace. I liked the 'no name' NPCs and their gradual developments over time too, like the Foreign Barker and the guitar player with horrible songs. Even the world's grumpiest Old Man with the radio was pretty cool. The devs put the old people and the kids in the same area so you could catch their vastly different worldviews with the change in daytime/nighttime.
I was slightly disappointed that the final boss would turn out to be a "god", but I also understand that the "will of the general public" needed to be catalyzed into something coherent to fight as a final boss.
Playing through P5, I thought a lot of, "Oh, so it was like this for Japan for some time." The game has been in development for 6-7 years, with the original ideas probably laid down in its early planning stages, so one could probably assume the ideas and message espoused in P5 are not recent feelings. I think maybe we in the west have something to learn from Japan.
Watching AGermanSpy's LP and holy shit, I never slept in the bed in Velvet Room where you can end up hearing Lavenza's voice. Fucking crazy how Franz figured out that the twins were split from single entity from that clue alone. Not sure if that was a lucky guess or he was spoiled and is acting like he didn't.
Can't wait to see his reaction to all the pervy shit in the first Palace and also the final boss, haha
Can't wait to see his reaction to all the pervy shit in the first Palace and also the final boss, haha
Elaugaufein
Member
While there are parallels , I'd be careful of reading them too deeply. The Japanese LDP has been in power for all but 5 years since 1955 (and both periods without them in power where within the last 25 years). They aren't populist insurrectionists by any means. Nor are they a response to a way of life that's recently been perceiving itself as underseige.
Edit - Ahh, I see Vox mentions that.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Did they ever explain why the ends of later dungeons don't seem to get as distorted as the first couple? I remember the characters commenting on how weird the end of the castle and museum are (with random building shifts and stairways through space respectively), but looking back all the later ones are a lot more "normal." It makes sense that a bank has a big vault for example, and as far as the Metaverse goes, there's nothing strange about it.
I asked this earlier. I found it strange too. I liked how distorted the first two dungeons got. Shame they dropped that idea.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Maybe the latter villains have a much greater control and understanding of their personal ambition? That would be my interpretation.
Either that or they forgot about it completely.
Either that or they forgot about it completely.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Ah, sorry, must have missed that. It definitely was a cool idea.
I thought about that explanation as well, but I'm not sure if it makes sense. My understanding is that the distortions had nothing to do with ambition and everything to do with how distorted your desires were. Madarame still had enough control over his ambitions to have his Treasure locked up behind high security, but there was still a distorted area before that.Maybe the latter villains have a much greater control and understanding of their personal ambition? That would be my interpretation.
Either that or they forgot about it completely.
I'm thinking your second explanation makes more sense unfortunately, haha.
yanipheonu
Member
It might be that the later dungeons have hosts that are aware the metaverse exists. Shido's ship is set as a puzzle since he's highly aware of it. Futuba would know all about her mom's research. And even Kanashiro was at least partially aware of the metaverse.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
You actually just reminded me that Futaba's Palace gets pretty weird right at the very end, after you send the calling card and head to the boss room.
As for your argument itself, even if Kaneshiro is somewhat aware of the Metaverse I'm not sure that'd be enough to keep his Palace so structured. Maybe I'm just overestimating how hard it is to control one's Palace though.
darkwing-buck
Member
Finally finished p5, so far it's my fav persona game of the 3 I've played. P5>P3>P4. I romanced makoto on the first playthrough and I gotta say the romance in this game was much more enjoyable then in 4. Really enjoyed my time with this game. Can't wait to start ng+.
Also Rivers of Desert is stuck in my fucking head. I can't get it out lol
Sojiro looking at the pocket book and tearing up after the mc left fucked me up :/
Also Rivers of Desert is stuck in my fucking head. I can't get it out lol
Sojiro looking at the pocket book and tearing up after the mc left fucked me up :/
the_sun_king
Member
Man, I've been listening to "Hoshi To Bokura To" on repeat since I beat the game earlier this week and it made me recall how Hashino described the game as conveying a sense of catharsis to players, and that's exactly the feeling stirred in me. I couldn't pinpoint it initially, but going through the song again and again, and reading the translated lyrics made me figure it out. The sense of healing - a dissipation of tension - that life can begin anew is so strong with "With The Stars And Us". I really loved Ryuji's final line about how life is a matter of perspective and the protagonist opening the sun roof of the car to get a different view of the road ahead while "Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There" plays one last time; it was the perfect note to end the game on.
I agree with others that have said P5 is probably the strongest thematically of the modern Persona games. It's so, so, so consistent with its message in nearly every aspect of the game. I only hope P6 can capture some of this again.
I agree with others that have said P5 is probably the strongest thematically of the modern Persona games. It's so, so, so consistent with its message in nearly every aspect of the game. I only hope P6 can capture some of this again.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
The bolded actually reminds me of another question I had: what does Ryuji mean by "And that's what aesthetics are." That doesn't make any sense to me. Isn't aesthetics more concerned with an understanding and appreciation of beauty?
the_sun_king
Member
Well, one of the Greek roots of the word aesthetics does mean "to perceive", so you can probably deduce that Ryuji is talking in a broader sense about the beauty of life and not specifically art.
There was discussion before that it was a mistranslation and what he's really saying is something like that's what "cognition" or "perspective" is. There were some who also saw it as a call back to Yusuke admonishing Ryuji by saying he has no sense of aesthetics. It being the latter would be very out of place for that scene in the game, while what he actually says already seems out of place. One of the possible misfires from P5's localization.
If what Ryuji is saying isn't fueled by some sort of irony, then it doesn't make much sense because Ryuji isn't the type who would say "aesthetics" like that at all.
I remember thinking at the start of the game why Igor was
so much less welcoming than P4 , but I brushed it off.
The reveal was a great twist and maybe the best gaming moment of the year so far.
They talk about how persona users can't have palaces in the first arc of the game.
What about futaba then?
the_sun_king
Member
Akechi had already been a Persona user before the start of the events of the game. Futuba becomes one at the end of the infiltration of her Palace (and it collapses shortly after).