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[RedSwirl]

It's hard to even say if they'll both do it the same way anymore. The short answer for the OP though is that I think there's going to be optional forwards compatibility. Developers will be able to keep supporting PS4 and Xbox One but won't be forced to.

With Microsoft, it's possible they may reach a point where they stop mandating support for the original Xbox One, and Xbox One X becomes the minimum spec. If that happens though, it's not like developers will immediately stop supporting original Xbox One for a little while. Many will likely keep making their Xbox games run on it, like EA Sports games or COD or other mass-market AAA games. You'll just see other games start to pop up that are Xbox One X-only.

It seems Sony is going to stick with "generations" but just like Microsoft, there's no reason for it to drastically change the architecture of the PS5. It'll just be the same system with more memory, a better GPU, and a new CPU, the CPU being the only thing that might cause compatibility problems.

Right now what I think Sony is going to do is launch a PS5 some time around 2019 or 2020, with backwards compatibility and optional forwards compatibility. A bunch of developers like EA and Ubisoft and the like will make games that are basically PS4 games but might run in an enhanced mode on PS5, while others like Sony will make PS5-only games. It'll basically be the same as cross-gen games but as one SKU. Maybe they'll label them "PS4 and PS5" on the box.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the GAAS games. Like will Minecraft get a nextbox version? Or will the Xbox One version be pushed? If it gets a nextbox version what convinces me to buy it again when my Xbox One version works with everything?

No. I think when the "NextBox" comes out you'll just keep playing the same Minecraft you bought on Xbox One, but it'll receive another "Super Duper Graphics" patch to take advantage of that new hardware when you upgrade. I think that will happen for lots of "live games" if they're still popular when the next round of hardware gets here. Stuff like Destiny 2 and Red Dead 2 might get PS5 patches.

 

[jdmonmou]

I don't get why people would want this. A next-gen console needs to make a clean break from the last gen. It won't make sense to limit features of a next gen game just to keep parity with old consoles.

From a business perspective, it doesn't make sense for Sony and MS to build a next-gen console and then say you can just buy those games on your PS4/Xbox One. They would need to provide incentive for consumers to purchase their latest console and the best way to do that is through exclusive content.

Also, we already had forward compatibility in a sense during the transition from 360/PS3 to Xbox One/PS4. A lot of early games this gen also released on the older consoles (e.g. Tomb Raider, Call of Duty, Titanfall, etc.).

The next-gen consoles should and probably will be fully backwards compatible. But forward compatibility is kind of stupid.

 

[nekkid]

I'm thinking MS will mandate a 1-2 year crossover of support, with developers/publishers then free to support the older platforms in the code if they feel there's still a market there.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

We will be talking about PS5 and new Xbox in 2019/2020... so the newXbox is just 2-3 years max away.

7nm being ready Sony and MS will show new exclusive (not being hold by old) hardware.

I wouldn't expect a new XBOX for 4 years

 

[ethomaz]

I wouldn't expect a new XBOX for 4 years

I wouldn't expect MS to launch new Xbox 1-2 years after PS5.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I wouldn't expect a new XBOX for 4 years

They aren't going to go up against the PS5 with a CPU that was considered underpowered in 2013.

 

[Iksenpets]

Someone who knows more than me let me know, but aren't continued attempts at forward compatibility eventually going to run into a wall with how CPU-limited the PS4/XBO platforms are? You're already running into issues where games on the X and Pro can't offer very high framerate gains because of weak CPUs. Seems like in another 5 years you'd need another hard cutoff to get around that. Maybe now that they've seen the success these half steps can have they can build the next platforms with the iPhone model in mind and avoid those bottlenecks to allow for greater scalability, but you probably need at least one more complete reboot to get there.

 

[FacelessSamurai]

I don't get why people would want this. A next-gen console needs to make a clean break from the last gen. It won't make sense to limit features of a next gen game just to keep parity with old consoles.

From a business perspective, it doesn't make sense for Sony and MS to build a next-gen console and then say you can just buy those games on your PS4/Xbox One. They would need to provide incentive for consumers to purchase their latest console and the best way to do that is through exclusive content.

Also, we already had forward compatibility in a sense during the transition from 360/PS3 to Xbox One/PS4. A lot of early games this gen also released on the older consoles (e.g. Tomb Raider, Call of Duty, Titanfall, etc.).

The next-gen consoles should and probably will be fully backwards compatible. But forward compatibility is kind of stupid.

I think it makes perfect sense actually. MS/Sony don't make money on hardware, they make it on software. The bigger the install base, the more games they can sell. So if games would work, for example, on Xbone, XboneX and XboneZ, developers can target all of that as a userbase and seel even more copies, compare to selling games early in the gen to only XboneZ gamers. I think it's the main reason why Microsoft went with the MAUs people seem to hate so much. They want to have a large install base and sell to as many as possible, making the financial toll on developers easier to swallow when new consoles come out as they won't have to worry about pushing a next-gen/high budget/AAA title to few people and risk their investment when they know people on the previous console can still play it.

 

[p_xavier]

I think Sony should just call its next system the PlayStation and release new versions upon the year of release. All subsequent versions would be backwards compatible.

 

[g11]

I wouldn't want to see forward compatibility because that will either severely hamper the progress that can be made or will further inflate already stratospheric development costs for a lot of devs.

Backward compatibility on the other hand, hardware backward compatibility, should definitely be on the table going forward. It was understandable why it was difficult in the past with bifurcation and specialization of hardware in the past, but now we're back to "basically x86" hardware. I would be dubious of any claims that backward compatibility of PS4 games on PS5 is "nearly impossible," for example.

 

[rokkerkory]

Xbox will for sure if Spencer has his ways.

 

[funkystudent]

Maybe you do cross buy for the launch window / first year and after that once next gen exclusives start popping up you cut off the old gen.

Like... bundling PS4 games with PS5 versions with DL codes for the PS5 version might be smart? Get people tied to the digital side a bit more.

Plus I got to assume PS5 games are gonna be pushing 100gigs and on whatever new Blu Ray exists you probably cant just using the PS4 disc without another large as F download anyway.

Xbox will for sure if Spencer has his ways.

Actually he is very clear when he says every game will work on the Xbox One Family of consoles if you look at some of the interviews about it.

So if they do true next gen and drop the Xbox One branding I got to assume complete forwards comparability goes out the window. BC stays tho.

 

[eso76]

Man, I surely hope not.

I'm already pissed at those tflops in the XBOXOX being basically only good for running​ the same games as Xbox one in 4k.

 

[anothertech]

No. But they will likely have better chance for bc since everything is x86. Should be a going trend till quantum becomes a thing

 

[jdmonmou]

I think it makes perfect sense actually. MS/Sony don't make money on hardware, they make it on software. The bigger the install base, the more games they can sell. So if games would work, for example, on Xbone, XboneX and XboneZ, developers can target all of that as a userbase and seel even more copies, compare to selling games early in the gen to only XboneZ gamers. I think it's the main reason why Microsoft went with the MAUs people seem to hate so much. They want to have a large install base and sell to as many as possible, making the financial toll on developers easier to swallow when new consoles come out as they won't have to worry about pushing a next-gen/high budget/AAA title to few people and risk their investment when they know people on the previous console can still play it.

But making a next-gen console where all games created for it would have to work with their last-gen counterpart is stupid. Developers will already be doing this by releasing their games for both the old and new platforms for the first couple of years into the next-gen. Remember games like Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and Metal Gear Solid 5? Those were next-gen games that released also on Xbox 360/PS3.

 

[Shin]

I think Sony should just call its next system the PlayStation and release new versions upon the year of release. All subsequent versions would be backwards compatible.

That's what I'm thinking also because we'll be "stuck" at 4K for a while it's going to be hard to sell the difference to the audience.

 

[Trup1aya]

I doubt this requirement will be made by either party. They'll want games that take advantage of the better cpu's that'll be available at that time.

That said, devs will still be making gameplay systems that work with these weaker CPUs so they can target a large audience. So expect a cross gen period where Xbox next games also work on Scorpio.

Publishers will like this because the sales of there early gen games won't be limited by the launch installed base.

 

[btrboyev]

If they are still using x86 and basically customized versions of off the shelf GPU's I don't see any reason why BC wouldn't be standard

 

[wonderful103]

Not true. Mark Cerny said he wants the generation reset as it's the best way to improve power by a massive amount on the cpu side.

Cerny will be proven wrong, as will many in this thread that think so. To all those harping about things like the garbage jaguars and weak ass GPUs in the OG consoles, scaling is a thing. APIs are a thing. Profiles are a thing. PCs are a thing.

 

[PSqueak]

i can see it doing it backwards: Select games that work with the pro and the X also working with the future gen consoles, but not the other way around.

 

[_Ryo_]

No. And they shouldnt.

PS4-pro/XB1-x games should work on PS5/XB2 but you should not compromise your games to work on past-gen. Backwards compatibily is a must though.

 

[cakely]

No, I sincerely doubt it.

As I said in another thread, the equivalent for this generation is that you would be able to put a new PS4 game, like Horizon Zero Dawn into your PS3 in 2017 and expect the game to play.

Obviously, it would look terrible, there's no question about it. What good would that do anyone?

I think all this talk of "no new console generations". is meaningless marketing. It's the new "power of the cloud", it means nothing.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Wow this thread. Can't believe people are actually falling for MS' "No more gens!" PR bullshit.

 

[wonderful103]

Wow this thread. Can't believe people are actually falling for MS' "No more gens!" PR bullshit.

Spoken like a console-only gamer? While consoles still endure existence, they aren't going to be doing any more resets.

 

[malfcn]

Whether they do or not, expect upgrade options like they did with ps360 to ps4/Xb1 games.

Sony is deflecting back compat as much as possible right now. They are more likely to embrace it next gen when architecture allows it more easily.

They have a history of poo poo-ing things, and then embracing them. Remember remember rumble vibration? "That is last generation, look at six axis!" and then blam, "we have Rumble!"

Microsoft has wizards, and no Cell Dragon to slay. They had less barrier to bringing bc.

 

[itsFizz]

They have a history of poo poo-ing things, and then embracing them. Remember remember rumble vibration? "That is last generation, look at six axis!" and then blam, "we have Rumble!"

You´re probably talking about the Sixaxis controller. It wasn´t Sony thinking "rumble is old" but PR fluff they put out because they could not integrate rumble in their controller due to a legal dispute of patent infringement starting in 2004. You can read the Story here. It was a combination of Sony being stubborn and stingy.

OT: I really hope we won´t be facing Forward compatibility for as long as possible. I mean sure we will have our cross gen games for year 1 and partly 2 but devs really should be able to fully take advantage of the new platforms without any kind of restraint. I do not want a next gen Naughty Dog game (Last Of us 3 or whatever) to look like UC4 but in 4k/60. That is not why I buy a new Console. BC would be cool though...

 

[Colonel Nasty]

Xbox will, S compatibility will be dropped but every PS5 game will likely work on X for some time out side of true exclusives from first party. Look at PC, that's the blue print. Eventually they'll be X2 exclusives but not at its launch.

 

[Trup1aya]

No, I sincerely doubt it.

As I said in another thread, the equivalent for this generation is that you would be able to put a new PS4 game, like Horizon Zero Dawn into your PS3 in 2017 and expect the game to play.

Obviously, it would look terrible, there's no question about it. What good would that do anyone?

I think all this talk of "no new console generations". is meaningless marketing. It's the new "power of the cloud", it means nothing.

The thing is, you don't get Horizon Zero Dawn quality games at the start of the gen. That takes two to 3 years.

What you get at the start is Madden, nba,fifa cod, battlefield, etc... cross gen stuff.

So what is expect is that the same xb2 disc that these "cross gen" games ship on will run on xb1x with lesser graphical settings.

There will still be generations. But there won't be a hard stop between them.

 

[boneyjangles]

I expect both new consoles to run all PS4/Pro games, but have it's own titles that don't run on old consoles.

So you don't lose your library, but you gotta upgrade to stay current.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

There is no reason they can't do it on a game by game basis. There were lots of cross gen-games released in the first year or two and still many games being released that would work fine on 360/PS3 especially indie games.

They was when moving from a completely different architecture as well.

 

[Koutsoubas]

They cant be that much powerful than X and Pro. So I suppose they could be compatible with these 2 editions but not with OG releases.

Unless we see PS5 in 6 years instead of 3

 

[Detective]

Backward compatible and clean next gen not bound by current systems. That's the way to go.

 

[Wiped89]

No.

That kind of idea is what Sony and Microsoft want you to believe so you'll buy an Xbox One X or a PS4 Pro now.

Then they want to dazzle you so much with PS5 and Xbox 2 that you'll forget all about the old consoles.... (until PS5 pro etc and the cycle repeats).

 

[godhandiscen]

I hope the Xbox Two plays Xbox One games.

 

[dano1]

Consoles were a mistake

Over 60 million PlayStation owners say differently.

 

[ZOONAMI]

No.

 

[Omega Kirby]

No. They don't.

Most games will run only on PS5 or Nextbox.

Nobody wants old machines holding back the new ones too.

Thats the thing about Xbox X. How much more powerful for a reasonable price can the Xbox two be?

Maybe a better CPU and a slightly better GPU but if they want to keep it below the $500, sacrifices must be made. (Unless of course, part prices drop by a lot)

I think the Xbox X won't hold the Xbox two back too much

 

[DBT85]

I expect PS5 and Xbox One Two to play PS4 and Xbox One One games.

I do not expect my PS4 Pro to be able to play PS5 games, the jump in CPU alone should be substantial. We'll get cross gen games as usual though.

My query is more how long MS will wait to release. Being late isn't a great idea when you're not the dominant player anyway. While the GPU difference between XboneX and PS5 might only be 100%, CPU should be more substantial I would imagine.

 

[13ruce]

I think fir the first year or first half they might make it so that the games work kinda cross platform like.

Otherwise i don't see how unless it's full cross platform games again like last time eich would alsobwork on og and slim ps4 and xbox one and s.

 

[jdstorm]

It will be the same as every gen. We will likely get 2 years of Cross Gen games that appear on both, then as more people start to adopt the "Next Gen" hardware we will see publishers start to exclusively target the new machines.

 

[Lorul2]

Wow GAF experts always amaze me with their "console market" analysis and business savvy!

If I understand what the experts in this thread are saying, the Playstation 5 is about to come out in 2020 with possible (but unlikely) backwards compatibility, and a reasonable price (nothing over $499!). It will have the newest Zen architecture somewhere around 7nm and spark a new console war after the very successful PS4 run.

They already figured out the specs of the new console, they started targeting manufacturing times, shipping dates, and a big 2019 E3 reveal. By next year the SDK for the processor and memory configuration should by reaching developers and PS5 launch titles should be ready to show "in engine" by 2019.

What will those games look like?

Native 8K, 120 frame per second 3d holo-projected images.

No.

probably native 4k, 60 frame per second masterpieces.

Oh wait! won't that console already on the market?

What would be the big "enhancement" of the PS5 be over the current 4K/60 frame per second announced consoles (ahem Xbox one X)?

If the PS4 Pro's 4K is good enough why the hell would I buy a PS5 in three years?

3 YEARS!

 

[McHuj]

I think it will be a lot easier for Xbox to pull that off then for Sony simply due to the higher power and ram advantage.

I don't expect the next consoles to go over 12 teraflops and if we're lucky 24GB of RAM. I think Xbox 1X in that scenario could assume the role of the Xbox 1S, with support being dropped for the original Xbox 1S.

For Sony that would be a little harder to pull of as the power gulf would be bigger between the Pro and the next console, but more importantly the RAM deficiency. I really wish PS4Pro had 12-16GB of RAM. That would have helped future proof it more.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

No. 100% no.

But the next Xbox 100% will play all BC 360, OG and Xbox One games.

Will PS5 play PS4 games? I doubt it.

 

[jdstorm]

Wow GAF experts always amaze me with their "console market" analysis and business savvy!

If I understand what the experts in this thread are saying, the Playstation 5 is about to come out in 2020 with possible (but unlikely) backwards compatibility, and a reasonable price (nothing over $499!). It will have the newest Zen architecture somewhere around 7nm and spark a new console war after the very successful PS4 run.

They already figured out the specs of the new console, they started targeting manufacturing times, shipping dates, and a big 2019 E3 reveal. By next year the SDK for the processor and memory configuration should by reaching developers and PS5 launch titles should be ready to show "in engine" by 2019.

What will those games look like?

Native 8K, 120 frame per second 3d holo-projected images.

No.

probably native 4k, 60 frame per second masterpieces.

Oh wait! won't that console already on the market?

What would be the big "enhancement" of the PS5 be over the current 4K/60 frame per second announced consoles (ahem Xbox one X)?

If the PS4 Pro's 4K is good enough why the hell would I buy a PS5 in three years?

3 YEARS!

Because the PS4,PS4 Pro, Xbox 1, Xbox 1 S and Xbox 1X are all being powered AMD Jaguar cores. (A 2012 laptop CPU) This CPU has been bottlenecking peformance in big games for a while. A new modern 2019 laptop CPU would be orders of magnitude faster then current gen CPUs and offer immediately noticible tangible benefits.

These include. Faster loading times. Larger draw distances, More physics/particle effects, better enemy AI, more AI on screen, larger multiplayer instances.

With more games pushing for shared online open worlds, these improvements are completely nessecary.

 

[tearsintherain]

If they are continuing the PC model of building simply better hardware every few years, ala xbox one X, they better. Its a small pain in the ass for devs to compile two or three executables on disc - one for PS4, one for PS4 Pro, one for PS5, one for PS5 Pro - but it really basically boils down to just video config options, like every PC game has had now for over a decade. Ultra mode for PS5, High for PS4 Pro, Normal for PS4 and all the associated AA, texture, HBAO, lighting, etc options that entails.

A move to a radically different hardware design I guess could excuse losing BC, but that doesn't seem the direction anyone wants to go. Make it more like a PC in a box, just refresh the underlying hardware every 3-4 years.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

This one?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...out-the-future-of-console-games/#583efd4128f5

"So from a development platform, we needed to think about our hardware as multi-generational. Because we said 'Okay, there's gonna be games that are going to live multiple generations. And our software platform really has to service a developer's need to service an ongoing set of users."

Full interview:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Phil_Spencer_looks_to_the_future_of_Xbox.php

Keyword: software platform, not hardware. This about games that will stick around for a long time like MMOs. GTA Online, Overwatch, Rocket League, that kind of stuff. About letting you carry over your account and everything that's tied to that between console generations.

Those 2013 console will be fazed out.

Yeah, but with this dumb forward compatibility idea, 2016/17 consoles with 2013 hardware wouldn't. That's why it wouldn't work

 

[thelastword]

I would think so...PS5 should be on a Ryzen 2 APU with a Navi GPU, that should be able to run Jaguar games like it's nothing.....I imagine, unlocked games will be 60/120fps depending on monitor with the new HDMI spec....16xAF should be auto implemented as well as 16xMSAA and supersampling on older games......

 

[Dragner]

They will sell you PS5 PRO and XBOX NEXT Y. You will buy it. And you will love it.

 

[Floody]

NeXtbox probably, MS have already said they don't wanna leave people behind anymore and with all the games going to PC, there'll all probably have very low settings options. I'd be really surprised if Sony force anyone to make PS5 games have to support PS4 too though.

 

[120v]

if forward compatibility must be a thing just stick with the hardware family. i.e. Pro 2.0 and 1X 2.0

even the most aloof consumers know what hardware refreshes are all about