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[cpp_is_king]

At 21 you're an adult. An adult in North Korea no less. Going there you'll be aware of how crazy and strict they are - the whole population is supposed to idolise their supreme leader... and he still fucks about thinking it's a joke.

What's a prisoner in a coma going to do in a labour camp? Why would they keep him, best course of action was to send him back.

But I still want to know what caused him to go into a coma. Maybe a diabetic? Or they smacked him on the head maybe.

News reports say he has severe neurological damage that is often seen as the result of cardiac arrest when the brain is deprived of oxygen for too long

Personally I think he was waterboarded or held underwater as a means of torture, but I don't know if we'll ever know for sure.

 

[Skyzard]

News reports say he has severe neurological damage that is often seen as the result of cardiac arrest when the brain is deprived of oxygen for too long

Personally I think he was waterboarded or held underwater as a means of torture, but I don't know if we'll ever know for sure.

Wow that's fucked. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was waterboarded.

-North Korea says he may have got botulism and took a sleeping pill. I did some more reading and it's a bit confusing, some say he's in a coma, some say he was in a coma and may need therapy that can improve his condition - maybe he can shed some light after some time...though he was protesting and got arrested by the NK government so who knows if he'd be honest.

All seems a bit dodge. Who knows, but that they are returning him is a good thing.

 

[SapientWolf]

Nah. You [you meaning him] know the rules. You just don't think you have to follow them because you're American.

Saw a tweet earlier today but can't find it at the moment. Basically rando on twitter says he can't even walk to the Eastside of town without dealing with nonsense but white dude can cause trouble in North Korea.

What else do you call someone that was greviously injured while he was in the government's care other than a victim?

 

[Dhx]

I don't understand why anybody would give any kind of credits to the informations NK is giving us.

They shouldn't. I guarantee that 9/10 of the blasé 'he shuldn't a done that" posters in this thread haven't even watched the dodgy surveilance video or read up on the absolutely ridiculous story he confessed to.

"I apologize to each and every one of the millions of the Korean people, and I beg that you see how I was used and manipulated," he said. "My reward for my crime was so much smaller than the rewards that the Z Society and the Friendship United Methodist Church get from the United States administration."
Warmbier is also seen in the video sobbing and pleading for forgiveness, and bowing deeply to apologize.
"I never, never should have allowed myself to be lured by the United States administration to commit a crime in this country. I wish that the United States administration never manipulate people like myself in the future to commit crimes against foreign countries. I entirely beg you, the people and government of the DPRK, for your forgiveness. Please! I made the worst mistake of my life!"

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/north-korea-sentenced-a-us-college-kid-to-15-years-hard-labor-for-stealing-a-propaganda-poster-vgtrn

Read up on this garbage and tell me that you actually stand by your posts. But no, that white priviliged, idiot asshole. Disgusting.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

"Yeah of course it's sad, but the guy was actually receiving money from US state department for this crime."

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Everyone shitting on the dad must surely understand that he is grieving and angry. What that dad is going though is worse than a death sentence - watching his living son lay motionless in a vegitised state... Terrible.

 

[Colossus]

Maybe he tried to kill himself and the coma is a result of damage sustained during that. A prison sentence that wipes out the entire course of your young adulthood and wrecks the rest of your life would be a hard thing to face.

The brain is a delicate thing. He could have been messed up by a single punch or strike on his head.

Tragic end. I don't see anything wrong in tourists visiting North Korea. Stealing was dumb, but so are harsh sentences in any country. Prison deaths, of many causes, are not unique to North Korea.

 

[Jinroh]

To accuse him of stealing, then practically kill him and hope for an escalation with US.

Your analysis is all wrong. They don't want escalation with the US, it's not in their interest. When a tourist gets arrested for some reason, they use it as a bargaining chip for negotiations/ political recognition. I don't think any american recently served a full sentence over there.

Why gave back a prisoner in this lifeless state ?

Because the whole point as I said is to have a bargaining chip. Either he had health issues, either a guard screw up and he became a vegetable, but it's clearly not in the interest of the higher up. If they kept him for so long they probably tried to do everything possible to fix the issue to avoid political repercussions. When they realized the guy can't be saved they sent him back as a gesture of good will.

But in the end it's clearly not in their favor. The higher ups must be very angry about this whole thing.

 

[Dhx]

But in the end it's clearly not in their favor. The higher ups must be very angry about this whole thing.

No doubt. I'm sure someone was blown to literal pieces by a mortar whether or not it was their fault. Though, they probably save the mortars for the high profile executions. Sending the offender and his entire family to death... I mean work camp will have to do. You see, treason is hereditary and it sends the proper message.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Your analysis is all wrong. They don't want escalation with the US, it's not in their interest. When a tourist gets arrested for some reason, they use it as a bargaining chip for negotiations/ political recognition. I don't think any american recently served a full sentence over there.

So why they are constantly making nuke test ? They are not even hiding it.
Many regimes have a direct interest to have a escalating tension with the West, it's how they keep their population in check, by playing with the nationalist sentiment.

 

[Frozenprince]

So why they are constantly making nuke test ? They are not even hiding it.
Many regimes have a direct interest to have a escalating tension with the West, it's how they keep their population in check, by playing with the nationalist sentiment.

Because it's leverage, when they get to close to a line, they usually get told "no more of this for a year or two" in exchange for food in desperate times of famine or flooding.

 

[Maintenance]

His father blames President Obama, and praises Trump, for his son being released.





*eyeroll. This is your son's fault for choosing to go there, brah.

edit: https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/06/otto-warmbier/530448/

Why the fuck are you proud of your son? He's an idiot and a criminal, gg.

How the fuck is this kind of shit even allowed here, I've seen people get banned for less.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

They're seriously gonna wreck the kid's life over a fucking banner? I seriously hope our government here in America intervenes.

The US has wrecked millions of lives over small amounts of pot.

Spoiler

The kid is rich and probably white, he'll be fine

 

[Frozenprince]

The US has wrecked millions of lives over small amounts of pot.

Spoiler

The kid is rich and probably white, he'll be fine

He's in a coma. From being tortured.

 

[SchrodingerC]

The US has wrecked millions of lives over small amounts of pot.

Spoiler

The kid is rich and probably white, he'll be fine

Apparently he has dead brain tissue, so no, he fucking won't.

 

[Harmen]

This is absolutely horrible. Yes, the guy was being stupid, but being stupid should not lead to 15 years labor camp and especially not an induced coma. Botulism sounds like utter bullshit if US doctors cannot find any evidence for that and the symptoms align with a type of coma associated with the brain not getting enough oxygen.

 

[Bananajama]

Horrendous - poor lad. One bad decision shouldn't screw you over like this

News like this means that if I ever go I'll be following every rule to the T

I do want to go too; my old man fought in the Korean War so I've got some sort of morbid fascination of wanting to go AND seeing the DMZ from both sides.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Criminal, yeah. He's a real bad guy. Some of you just suck. He was wrong no doubt but material things are pretty worthless compared to living things

People don't own land just cause they think they do, argue all you want but so much of what people think is an idea of subjective nature

 

[Jack The Nipper]

The US has wrecked millions of lives over small amounts of pot.

Spoiler

The kid is rich and probably white, he'll be fine

Oh, he's white so he will be fine. Why race has to be brought up here... I have no idea. Pretty sure he isn't fine regardless of color.

 

[skullmuffins]

The US has wrecked millions of lives over small amounts of pot.

Spoiler

The kid is rich and probably white, he'll be fine

Man, you really missed some important updates to this story by responding to a year-old post. He's in a persistent vegetative state (or "unresponsive wakefulness") (not a coma btw) with severe brain damage due to lack of oxygen. He's never going to get better.

 

[Rmagnus]

The US has wrecked millions of lives over small amounts of pot.

Spoiler

The kid is rich and probably white, he'll be fine

Dood at least read up before shitting on the kid. He is in a freaking coma ffs

 

[SuperBanana]

The US has wrecked millions of lives over small amounts of pot.

Spoiler

The kid is rich and probably white, he'll be fine

White people have the ability to regenerate dead brain tissue? Wow, I never knew.

 

[Jinroh]

So why they are constantly making nuke test ? They are not even hiding it.

Many reasons why. First, they want a nuclear arsenal, and you need tests in order to do so. These tests also allow them to put pressure and bargain with the west. These nuclear weapons would allow them to officially become a nuclear power and as a result be taken seriously internationally.

North Korea badly wants a peace treaty with the US through direct negotiations. But the US stance is that South Korea should be included, and South Korea refused to sign a peace treaty with the north. And now that they have nuclear weapons, one of the american condition is that they would need to get rid of them first.

It's become very complicated, and their quest for deterrence is making a peace treaty even less likely because the US won't change their stance.

So it's a very different situation compared to what happened with this tourist. And again, what happened is in the interest of absolutely no one involved, especially the North Korean leaders.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Many reasons why. First, they want a nuclear arsenal, and you need tests in order to do so. These tests also allow them to put pressure and bargain with the west. These nuclear weapons would allow them to officially become a nuclear power and as a result be taken seriously internationally.

North Korea badly wants a peace treaty with the US through direct negotiations. But the US stance is that South Korea should be included, and South Korea refused to sign a peace treaty with the north. And now that they have nuclear weapons, one of the american condition is that they would need to get rid of them first.

It's become very complicated, and their quest for deterrence is making a peace treaty even less likely because the US won't change their stance.

So it's a very different situation compared to what happened with this tourist. And again, what happened is in the interest of absolutely no one involved, especially the North Korean leaders.

I don't know much about NK/SK conflict so thanks you for the input.
However, how the NK propaganda machine can work along the peace effort with US ?
I guess like the iranian one...

 

[Cirion]

Reading this thread helps an outsider understand how the disgusting "justice" system in the US with its insane lengthy prison sentences for selling some weed or stealing a cake can continue to exist. A society obsessed with punishment and revenge.

"Well, guy did a crime, so he should have known better. Punishment is harsh, but expected"

 

[KurtFehl]

Reading this thread helps an outsider understand how the disgusting "justice" system in the US with its insane lengthy prison sentences for selling some weed or stealing a cake can continue to exist. A society obsessed with punishment and revenge.

"Well, guy did a crime, so he should have known better. Punishment is harsh, but expected"

It's not about revenge, it's about justice.

And I'm talking about America, not the kid who went to NK. I would never go to NK and if I did for some reason, I would never mess with a poster. I wouldn't do anything.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

But hey! North Korea wants to revamp their tourism! I wonder why!!

 

[Coriolanus]

It's pretty mind blowing to find people accusing the kid.
I don't have any kind of certainty that he actually stole anything. Maybe they forced him to make this confession. Even if he took a flag/poster, maybe he was not aware that it was a crime. Even if he did took it, he's a kid, and now he is (apparently) dead.

NK leadership is desperately looking to provoke a conflict with US.

It have nothing to do with culture. It's a dictatorship where the leader is a divine figure.

If they wanted to do that, they'd just use their artillery to shell a US base in SK. No need to go through hoops. Don't be silly.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

If they wanted to do that, they'd just use their artillery to shell a US base in SK. No need to go through hoops. Don't be silly.

I never said an armed conflict, i said conflict. If it's anything like Iran, they have to demonstrate that they are confronting the great devil/imperialist constantly to their own people to stir up the nationalist sentiment.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Reading this thread helps an outsider understand how the disgusting "justice" system in the US with its insane lengthy prison sentences for selling some weed or stealing a cake can continue to exist. A society obsessed with punishment and revenge.

"Well, guy did a crime, so he should have known better. Punishment is harsh, but expected"

Let me ask you this. Are you willing to visit North Korea? Unless the answer is yes, I'm pretty sure you're on the same page as those of us in thread who you are criticizing

 

[Abounder]

His father blames President Obama, and praises Trump, for his son being released.





*eyeroll. This is your son's fault for choosing to go there, brah.

edit: https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/06/otto-warmbier/530448/

Why the fuck are you proud of your son? He's an idiot and a criminal, gg.

*shrug

Going to NK is a really stupid idea in the first place. You're not brave for doing this if you're doing it for tourism purposes, and you're definitely not brave if you get imprisoned for stealing a banner. It's a stupid crime; shouldn't be so harsh, but ffs using "brave" in this context is just... wtf.

The father is trying to paint his son as some sort of martyr, and I am so not down for it. You don't get to pull this card in this situation.



NK considers America to be its enemy. How is going to a country that considers itself at war with your country, a country that doesn't listen to the US and hasn't joined the rest of us in 2017, not comparable to doing something stupid like playing with fire? I'm not going to plan a visit to ISIS controlled territory and blithely wander around like there are no consequences.



No, I wish as much as anyone else, that he wasn't in a coma and was returned in better health. Didn't happen. What my feelings are, towards the father, though, are definitely stronger, especially since the guy decided to portray this in this manner.

Like, your son was dumb enough to go to NK in the first place and dumb enough to get himself in trouble, and you're happy to say that President Obama should have done more and should have potentially started some shit with NK?

The fuck. The kid was at fault and the father is like oh whatever international crisis be damned MY SON WAS BRAVE. ....no.

What the hell is this stupid shit, what martyrdom? The father's quote about it taking courage to visit NK as an American? It does. Hell, the family couldn't even talk about it under Obama - not sure where your daddy issue is coming from here. Anyway no one deserves 15 years of labor + coma for visiting NK, and now he's got severe brain injury.

Also why would you take NK's word on this when they've only made things worse for everyone involved, goddamn awful

 

[cpp_is_king]

. nevermind

 

[Dosia]

Anybody who decides to visit NK is playing with fire. Imagine the unfortunate people who live there and have to experience this bullshit daily.

 

[Ghazi]

Man, you really missed some important updates to this story by responding to a year-old post. He's in a persistent vegetative state (or "unresponsive wakefulness") (not a coma btw) with severe brain damage due to lack of oxygen. He's never going to get better.

You didn't know? If you're rich and white you're immune to being a vegetable.

 

[perfectchaos007]

You didn't know? If you're rich and white you're immune to being a vegetable.

That would be awesome if my white male privilege could cure me from disease and illness.

 

[LaMagenta]

News reports say he has severe neurological damage that is often seen as the result of cardiac arrest when the brain is deprived of oxygen for too long

Personally I think he was waterboarded or held underwater as a means of torture, but I don't know if we'll ever know for sure.

I just seen a documentary with defectors, survivors and ex prison guards. They like to experiment on people by gassing them with poisons and other stuff. That's prob what they did to this poor kid. I wish there was an easy way to save th nk people. Everything leads to war and death of millions.

 

[LaMagenta]

What the hell is this stupid shit, what martyrdom? The father's quote about it taking courage to visit NK as an American? It does. Hell, the family couldn't even talk about it under Obama - not sure where your daddy issue is coming from here. Anyway no one deserves 15 years of labor + coma for visiting NK, and now he's got severe brain injury.

Also why would you take NK's word on this when they've only made things worse for everyone involved, goddamn awful

And to add, what else is a father to say, feel, think? He loves his son. He has to think happy thoughts. Idk why this kid didn't know how drastic the consequences would be for even the smallest infractions while nk, but he didn't deserve this. And the ppl in concentration/prison camps in nk don't deserve what is going on to them. The ppl in nk both love and fear the leader. It is scary to watch how they praise the leader, in a manner that you know the person who is found to be cheering the least could be sent to a camp along with 3 generations of their family.

 

[BronsonLee]

Otto Warmbier, held in N. Korea until last week, has died at UCMC.

Link goes to family statement.

 

[shnurgleton]

Holy shit.

 

[Toth]

This is beyond sad.

 

[DragoonKain]

I have a hard time not considering this as an act of war. Taking one of our citizens for their own petty personal purposes, and treating them like a savage, causing their death.

If I were president, it would take every fiber of my being to keep a cool and rational head and not to launch a retaliation against them for it.

 

[GregLombardi]

Ooof. Awful.

 

[Geno Breaker]

RIP. Condolences to the family.

 

[Jakoo]

Otto Warmbier, held in N. Korea until last week, has died at UCMC.

Link goes to family statement.

Awful end to this story.

I understand the strange fascination with wanting to visit North Korea but I can't imagine the reality of actually doing it on even the off chance of something like this happening.

 

[perfectchaos007]

I had a feeling that this thread would be bumped to say he's dead. RIP

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

My goodness, what did they do to him?

 

[shadow_shogun]

This is some stinging news...R.I.P, Otto.

 

[michaelius]

Awful end to this story.

I understand the strange fascination with wanting to visit North Korea but I can't imagine the reality of actually doing it on even the off chance of something like this happening.

Man I've just read that this excursion was advertised with "Your mother would tell you to no go there slogan" (or something similar in mean since I reverse translated from Polish source

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

If I were president, it would take every fiber of my being to keep a cool and rational head and not to launch a retaliation against them for it.

Yep, but you have to. If you launch an attack, South Koreans die. There is nothing anybody can do beyond what is already being done.

 

[BUNTING1243]

Tragic, rest in peace

I have a hard time not considering this as an act of war. Taking one of our citizens for their own petty personal purposes, and treating them like a savage, causing their death.

If I were president, it would take every fiber of my being to keep a cool and rational head and not to launch a retaliation against them for it.

I’m glad you’re not president