"If I Won"
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Hillary Clinton publishing book about 2016 election in Sept titled "What Happened"
- Thread starter johnsmith
- Start date
BassForever
Member
Even die hard Republicans can acknowledge what torpedoed McCain was his comment about the strength of our economy right before the recession happened. That's not even considering everything Obama did right during his campaign and how he energized voters. 2016 had lower voter turn out then 2008 and 2012 which speaks to the weakness of both candidates that ran.
It's not something I really care to read myself - I'd prefer an objective overview of I'm gonna read a book about it - but I think it's valuable to have her perspective, in writing, less than a year after the loss. Which is frankly one of the biggest events in US history.
It's just nice to have on the record.
It's just nice to have on the record.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
She lost
Should have been first reply.
Not sure if it will tell anything that we did not know already.
Should have been first reply.
Not sure if it will tell anything that we did not know already.
minor effort
Banned
No, George W. Bush is not Trump, but he was still a pretty low bar for political savvy prior to Trump. There was still an air of "I can't believe Democrats lost to this guy" among both 2000 and 2004 losses.
No the hate is irrational and insane, always has been.
DrROBschiz
Member
Russia happened
Im surprised she isnt waiting until the investigation finishes
The propaganda campaign certainly had a significant effect
Im surprised she isnt waiting until the investigation finishes
The propaganda campaign certainly had a significant effect
Was she wrong, though? It harmed her in the election, sure. But she isn't technically wrong in calling Trump's base deplorable. They ARE deplorable. Nor are they worth reaching out to, because they CAN'T be swayed.
Resident_UA
Member
You guys seriously don't realize that the things that you listed are not the reason to hate Hillary? If it's not gender than what?
(I mean there are opinion ratings that show how unpopular Hillary is and it's nowhere close to any other nominee)
You keep saying it's misogyny and your only evidence is that McCain wasn't hated on after he lost to Obama by conservatives.(Which, frankly, is a false statement). What is misogynistic about this thread?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Please provide proof of things they actually did or didn't do that are comparable to the things Hillary did or didn't do.
Al Gore's faux paus was that he tried to distance himself from Bill. If he even just had Bill go to Florida only, he would have won handily.
John Kerry was just an uncharismatic frankenstein's monster.
freeofgreed
Member
Get out of here with this nonsense. I'm not whitewashing shit. I'm fully aware of how awful Bush was. But I still firmly believe Trump is and will be far worse than Bush. Bush was much more Bipartisan and a lot less of an outright bigot than Trump. If your only Criteria is the amount of lives lost, then yeah Bush wins easily. If you factor in any other criteria then definitely not.
Criticising a woman is not a misogyny.
Resident_UA
Member
You do realize that you are basically listing these as reasons to hate Hillary vs McCain being hailed as hero? I mean - sure mistakes were made, how does this explain Hillary hate?
Every democratic runner lost... Not just Hillary. Rs were out for blood and showed up to vote.
Sorry I'm still trying to wrap my head around where people thought Hillary was as bad as Trump. Even now people still believe that? Really? With the daily surreal news really? I get people need someone to blame but really? This thread has my head reeling. Did Hillary murder everyone's dogs? I really want to know wtf happened.
Is it that people really believe the corruption narrative? That she is just a money grabber. Not that she deals for leverage but that she is a legitimate con like the orange?
Frustration with who we currently have as President. It has nothing to do with gender.
TurnipFritters
Member
Probably all the post that keep saying the woman should shit down and shut up unless she's going to apologize for being the most awful and terrible person to ever exist.
Resident_UA
Member
I don't give a shit about criticism. It hate that pisses me off. Also anyone comparing the criticism that McCain got to what Hillary is getting right now is out of their mind.
it's kind of dumb to automatically assume that any criticism towards some of the things she has said or done during her presidential race campaign is born out of misogony. In my country we had a woman heading the government for 12 years now (and likely more to come), believe it or not but not every single one of her many critics hates women
self-reflection is a good thing
Please tell me you forgot the /s.
being blind to her many mistakes and serving as her defense force works to the advantage of the other fanatics on the Trump side. Hyperbole does little to help.
Once again, how is this because she is a woman verses losing to such a vile human being?
Resident_UA
Member
Well, you should put that statement next to every hateful post in this thread. It would make me think it's more about Trump than it is about gender.
A lot of things happened, honestly.
Using Hollywood to promote her and not heading to the mid-west.
Russia and Wikileaks interfered and smeared the living shit out of her and the rest of the Democrats.
The FBI investigation and Comey's statement days before the election.
Fake News in general didn't help, even the left was falling for some of it.
Bernie not giving up after New York and his campiegn team going out of control.
30 years of smearing from the Republican Party because she refused to make cookies as First Lady.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
There was a gulf of difference between Trump and Bush in terms of beatability. Bush had positive opinion ratings going into both elections. Trump was the most hated Presidential candidate in the post-war era. Losing to Bush is frustrating and you should have done better, but it was always going to be a difficult contest. Beating Trump should have been taking candy from an overgrown man-baby. You could not have picked an easier opponent.
I do not think you will ge an honest accounting of the election from Hillary. Her interviews so far seem to lack anything more than superficial introspection, and then she immediately pivots to blaming Comey and Russia.
Like I get that those may have been the events that put Trump over the top, but she should have never been running neck and neck with him in the first place.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Republicans usually vote down party line without a second thought.
Skellig Gra
Member
Criticizing a woman is misogyny? Are they not our equals? I'm not going to overlook our mistakes. Kerry was a pathetic candidate as well giving us an extra 4 years of Bush. Not that we had many better choices for Dem nominees (look at Edwards now).
Bedameister
Member
.
So you have no actual examples of it being misogyny other than people are "hating" her.
Pilgrimzero
Member
I always thought McCain taking on Palin, who proved to be a moron, torpedoed his campaign.
How funny that by today's standards, she would have clenched his win.
No one is saying that sexism didn't play a part in it, but to compare this situation to people not being upset when Obama and the Bushs won seems crazy. Say what you want about any of them, but none of them were openly racist, sexist, and homophobic (though I can see people seeing the Bushs as homophobic at least). Plus all of them had histories in politics. None of them were in a campaign where most of media was already assuming the winner months in advance due to how incompetent one side of the party was. There was a reason why most people/media were dumbfounded by Trump being president, and that was because he was/is completely unqualified for the job, which can't be said about Obama or either of the Bushs.
BassForever
Member
There are things you know to be true but you don't say them. Hillary didn't win anyone over to her side calling out Trump's base, but clearly she pushed others who would have voted for her away from her.
Isn't McCain hailed as a war hero for actually being a pow in vietnam? I think that's where most of the respect for McCain comes from, because American's love to sing songs of joy to their veterans.
old manatee
Banned
Just what we needed. I'm sure this won't be self-serving, and we will finally get to the bottom of the 2016 election and it will help us prepare for 2018.
I don't hate Clinton, I just think she was a fucking idiot for losing to Trump and dooming the planet to (at least) 4 years of bat-shit-crazy politics, the repercussions of which will reverberate around the world for years to come. As a result, I don't want to hear what she has to say about the election, she shouldn't be trying to profit from this legendary mistake, especially whilst we're all still right in the middle of it.
Resident_UA
Member
What other examples do I need? I believe if she did everything exactly the same but happened to be male, this thread would be barely a page.
A lot of people on the left fell for alt right bullshit in regards to Hillary. Bernie or Busters did not help either by either splitting the vote by going 3rd party and writing in troll ballots or not voting at all.
To put all the blame on Hillary is to ignore the stupid and flawed rational of voters who should have learned from the 2000 election.
To put all the blame on Hillary is to ignore the stupid and flawed rational of voters who should have learned from the 2000 election.
Well, people in the other thread were celebrated the news of McCain's brain cancer and in this thread are rudely suggesting Hillary retire from public life. Let's compare that.
TurnipFritters
Member
It's because women are frequently vilified in the United States for expressing their thoughts and opinions.
The people cheering on his cancer weren't doing it because he lost to Obama.
He also wasted a trillion dollars on a useless war addionally to the lives lost, it'll take Trump a while to burn that much money. Not to mention all the costs that you can't really put a number behind, like the strengthening of extremism as a result of the actions the US took after 9/11.
wesleyshark
Banned
complaining about her calling a gaggle of deplorable fuckos out on their shitty discriminatory rhetoric - wait, no, only half of a gaggle because she pulled a self censoring #notall for the moderates on social issues who don't exist - is tremendously ironic the day after those fuckos banned transgender people from the military because it might make it easier to build a stupid fucking symbolic "fuck you" to immigrants
hillary clinton was a flawed candidate who really should have known the average american can't handle qualifying statements or complicated answers in general, especially coming from a woman
just more proof that people don't actually want you to "tell it like it is" even if they beg for it - who could have imagined that was just a dogwhistle? (everyone but hillary's campaign and the secret hidden village of the moderate darlings)
like the very tough and thick skinned coal miners don't want to hear that their jobs will be obsolete so therefore we need job retraining programs and this and that and blah blah blah statistics and plans
they want you to lie and coddle them, duh
hillary would be a great president but was a poor candidate due to systemic issues and her own nerdy lack of charisma
and here in america, style trumps substance
...you can read the detailed policy positions literally no one cares about
hillary was too concerned about governing and forgot that "substance is not style"
hillary clinton was a flawed candidate who really should have known the average american can't handle qualifying statements or complicated answers in general, especially coming from a woman
just more proof that people don't actually want you to "tell it like it is" even if they beg for it - who could have imagined that was just a dogwhistle? (everyone but hillary's campaign and the secret hidden village of the moderate darlings)
like the very tough and thick skinned coal miners don't want to hear that their jobs will be obsolete so therefore we need job retraining programs and this and that and blah blah blah statistics and plans
they want you to lie and coddle them, duh
hillary would be a great president but was a poor candidate due to systemic issues and her own nerdy lack of charisma
and here in america, style trumps substance
...you can read the detailed policy positions literally no one cares about
hillary was too concerned about governing and forgot that "substance is not style"
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Too soon. I'm not against her writing this book, but we got shit we are dealing with here in America. Save this book for a few years down the line IMO.
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