Looks incredible as an S8 background
What a fantastic episode, the whole battle looked breathtaking
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Game of Thrones' incredible "Loot Train Attack" scene (SPOILERS for last week's ep)
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Looks incredible as an S8 background
What a fantastic episode, the whole battle looked breathtaking
Warm Machine
Member
To be fair the dragon used a ton of fire up to that point. I doubt it is limitless.
Shalashaska
Member
I wish they brought Miguel Sapochnik back for this one (though it was still a fantastic battle).
The previous battles/episodes he directed:
- Battle of the Bastards
- Hardhome
Oh, and he also directed The Winds of Winter. 3 of the 4 he has directed are in the Top 5 episodes of the show.
More_Badass
Member
Flying straight versus a moving target that you need to try and lead your shot to hit?
Phrozenflame500
Member
Typically you don't run in a straight line when you have a sniper aimed at you, no.
It would be much harder to hit a moving target, even if the target is bigger. Flying directly in a straight line just allows the person aiming more time to line up the shot.
Even better - quickly ascend and then burn it from directly overhead. The ballista wouldn't be able to hit at much more than a 45 degree angle.
But the reason they didn't do any of this is because it looks much cooler, and because they wanted Bronn to actually land a hit. And that's what I dislike about this scene and the show in general these days. All style, no substance.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Sam Gamgee fell into water twenty steps from the shore and suddenly sank like a stone and looked like he was far underwater - until Frodo put his hand in the water and pulled him up. It's called artistic license. Also, sudden depths in water do exist.
I got chills as all those moving chess pieces finally came together in one place. The amazing cinematography lived up to the drama of the battle.
My only nitpick observation was with the courage of the Lannister troops. Some of them would have started to break the second they saw a real fn'g dragon rise up over the hill. Some may have started to break at the sight of the Dothraki. We have to remember that both dragons and dothraki have almost mythical boogeyman status to Westerosi folk. For 100% of the Lannister troops fighting that day, this would have been their first encounter with both.
The moment Drogon torched the first couple of ranks of Lannister troops, they would have been breaking in every direction. I think the director missed a little on capturing the pure psychological terror the Lannisters would have felt in that moment. Instead, they focused on that yeah kick ass feeling of finally seeing Dany and her army living up to their potential.
My only nitpick observation was with the courage of the Lannister troops. Some of them would have started to break the second they saw a real fn'g dragon rise up over the hill. Some may have started to break at the sight of the Dothraki. We have to remember that both dragons and dothraki have almost mythical boogeyman status to Westerosi folk. For 100% of the Lannister troops fighting that day, this would have been their first encounter with both.
The moment Drogon torched the first couple of ranks of Lannister troops, they would have been breaking in every direction. I think the director missed a little on capturing the pure psychological terror the Lannisters would have felt in that moment. Instead, they focused on that yeah kick ass feeling of finally seeing Dany and her army living up to their potential.
Yeah, these seem simple enough to deal with. They can't aim straight up.
Just fly in high outside of their range and either flank them or hit them from directly above. Since nothing else but these can hurt you, it's simple. I doubt the characters will ever consider this, though.
You do realize this is a TV show meant to entertain with drama and action, and not a documentary, right?
Almost expected a real dragon in that making of and got disappointed
The difference between those scenes is that the only way Jaime and Bronn are able to survive this encounter is because the water is inexplicably deep an inch from shore. It's not really artistic license so much as it's a contrived way to allow for a thrilling scene while saving the character with plot armor.
And while sudden depths in water do exist...they aren't that sudden.
Ugh, I was waiting for this excuse. Next someone will tell me that breaks in logic this like don't matter for a show with dragons and zombies in it.
No. It's bad writing, pure and simple.
They also seem pretty slow to load and aim. If there were half a dozen to contend with that'd be one thing, but one shouldn't be a problem.
It's kind of the like putting The Flash on screen. He spends a lot of time not being the fastest man alive because otherwise it would all be very easy with no drama as he continually has one-on-one encounters with villains of normal speed.
Orthogonal
Member
Add to it the fact Jaime's horse was running in the water at Dany during the charge.
And add to the fact that in the shot moments before he got to her we could see all around the area and bronn was nowhere in sight.
Kind of ridiculous, but whatever. I still enjoyed it
Warm Machine
Member
I don't think she realized that it would have even been a threat. She didn't know it was there when the battle started nor knew it existed at all. Arrows did nothing to her or the dragon. Here is a slightly larger arrow.
Now Shen knows there is something that can pierce the Dragons armour.
a Master Ninja
Member
You assume it's a pond, but maybe it's just a canyon that filled with water over time. Those exist too.
I'm not arguing that it isn't contrived, by the way.
She saw the first crossbolt that missed, and would have to be a complete moron not to realize the damage one could do if it landed in the right spot. Let alone that everyone had just been telling her how easily she herself could get hit in a battle like this. Plus, at least one of the dragons of her ancestors was killed by a ballista, and she would have heard those stories from Viserys as a child. And are we forgetting that Drogon was injured by men wielding spears at the end of Season 5?
It's a river. They mention in the episode that they're near Blackwater Rush.
We also see how wide the river is in several shots, and the answer is not very. It's not a canyon, and if it somehow was a horse wouldn't be riding along the edge of it.
mariachi507
Member
Everything is so organic despite featuring a large number of soldiers, fights, explosions, and the damn dragon. That's why I love television right now. Digital is being embraced here in the correct way and the scene comes off so much better for it due to the perfect balance of practical/stuntwork and cgi. There's a reason why many of these recent big climaxes in summer blockbusters are leaving me empty while scene's like the Loot Train Attack are keeping me on the edge of my seat.
More_Badass
Member
Well, yeah, suspension of disbelief. What's more important, narrative purpose or portraying the most realistic battle possible? Of course they wanted Bronn to land a hit, it served to show that the ballista is actually a legitimate threat, can down and weaken a dragon even with a non-fatal shot, and set up the final scene
Phrozenflame500
Member
This is kind of fallacious though. You could easily write a scene where Bronn lands a hit without it feeling like Dany had make a stupid decision to have it happen. Narrative purpose and realism aren't necessarily at odds with one another.
Ideally, I'd take both. I also don't think the ballista needed to hit to show that it was a threat. Bronn managing to narrowly miss with one of them was proof of concept enough, and I actually think would create even more tension later when Dany inevitably attacks King's Landing and there's dozens of them everywhere.
Instead, Drogon nearly gets killed in his first real battle due to Dany's stupidity, and it will almost be weird if he doesn't take a hit when there's dozens of bolts flying at once.
superdeluxe
Member
Watching the 'making of'. Really help captured how amazing the sequence was
Jack Scofield
Member
While the whole sequence was absolutely amazing, the beauty of this scene in particular stuck with me. Incredibly beautiful-
Almost looks like Westworld. HBO cinematic universe confirmed.
While the whole sequence was absolutely amazing, the beauty of this scene in particular stuck with me. Incredibly beautiful-
Yep I love this shot. The Dothraki and the stunts were a lot more impressive than the actual dragon.
Would have loved to see how season 1 would have turned out if it had season 6's budget.
HawksWinStanley
Member
What shows do you watch that are 100% realistic and rational?
Lots of things, including Game of Thrones in seasons 1-3, and most of 4.
And I mean realistic within the context of the world in the show, before anyone starts.
As someone said above - it's not Drogon being hit that I take issue with. It's how he was hit. This show is filled with cliches now, and characters are acting uncharacteristically in order to service the plot. Cersei needed to get into a position of power, and so Tyrion becomes the fool. We also have Euron teleporting all over the map and the Lannister armies making decisions that would only make sense if they had perfect knowledge of Daenerys' actions. This battle is just another example of the way the quality of the show has nosedived.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I thought the idea of Dany flying straight was because she didn't see it as a threat because there hasn't been any.
And maybe hoped to take it out first.
As a viewer, I thought I was about to see someone's death as they happened to take out a dragon. Played on my expectations perfectly.
And maybe hoped to take it out first.
As a viewer, I thought I was about to see someone's death as they happened to take out a dragon. Played on my expectations perfectly.
Your analysis has completed ignored Dany as a character. Her arrogance, or as she puts it, her "faith in herself", her inexperience in battle, and how what little experience she did have (flying straight ahead at the masters ships and burning them) would inform her actions when faced with her second show of strength.
"Everyone telling her" what she should do, and her ignoring or halfway accepting that advice is part of her character, for better or worse.
She tried to play the cautious, "smart" approach, felt it was failing tremendously, so she rushed into a battle she didn't even need to be at to burn shit indiscriminately, and remind everyone what fire and blood looks like. Remember, she sees herself as a dragon, almost literally, and when she is on a power trip, she is almost blinded by rage.
Call her dumb for not being a military genius or master at aerial warfare in her two experiences with it, but I think it's within character established for seven seasons now for the woman that walked through fire unburnt to react indignantly to being shot at, and fly in without caution to 'dracarys" whatever dared threaten her. It's not too different from Drogo arrogantly letting himself get wounded because...high off adrenaline and power he feels invincible.
She came back to earth (no pun) whenever Drogon was rocked out of the sky, so maybe she'll be wiser in future attacks, now that she knows she can be hit in the air and that it can do damage if she doesn't fly smarter.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Best on-screen dragons ever. And this is a freaked TV show.
ShooterMcGavin
Member
If I'm forced to pick between the two, I'm still taking Battle of the Bastards as my favorite.
But nonetheless, I've watched this at least 20 times so far this week. Seeing people's reactions only makes it better.
But nonetheless, I've watched this at least 20 times so far this week. Seeing people's reactions only makes it better.
buttery fistful
Member
I suffered from this a lot last season, I've just decided to ignore the holes and enjoy it for what it is
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
If she was "flying smart" and Bronn happened to hit her, we'd get posts like "lol Bronn is magically a sharpshooter all of a sudden. Where was his training" etc. No one better cry "strawman" because I have been reading these threads long enough to know exactly how people bitch about these things (see: "plot armor" being tossed around so much with the main characters in this scene lol)
RipperGrim
Member
I really like that shot if Jaime charging the dragon. In another story he would have been the hero but this time nobody wanted him to succeed but didn't want him to die either.
They should have gone all the way though, either had him kill drogon or him get killed. They copped out with the last second save
They should have gone all the way though, either had him kill drogon or him get killed. They copped out with the last second save
I've seen this a lot and I don't really understand why people take issue with it.
Tyrion played a neat little trick at Blackwater with wildfire, but aside from that what has he ever done to make anyone think he is a military genius, or a brilliant tactician? Tyrions strengths has always been at forming interpersonal relationships, and politics, and he's still doing a great job at that by being the middle man between Jon Snow and Dany, and subtly pushing them to working together. He started this by ignoring what Dany told him to send Jon in the letter (come bend the knee), and instead appealed to Jon as an ally, not a subject. Without that carefully worded letter, Jon might not have ever left the North.
And even if Tyrion did not correctly guess where the Lannister army would be, he did correctly predict the political climate of them arriving in Westeros with their foreign armies, as it is what pushed Lords of the Reach to side with the Lannisters.
That is what he is good at. There is very little evidence that supports him being good at planning battles.
And it isn't like this is Cersei vs Tyrion commanding armies, it's Jaimie vs Tyrion. Jaimie is the one leading the military (along with Randall Tarly and whatever other lords), and it makes sense that Jaimie, someone who has commanded several campaigns, would be able to get the best of Tyrion militarily.
I don't get why losing battles makes a character a fool. Even Tywin was losing battles like crazy, getting outsmarted by a kid, etc. But Tywin showed that wars could be won outside of the battlefield, and I think Tyrion is winning battles in other places.
You're absolutely right. I learned a long time ago that this sort of nitpicking is prevalent in a certain type of viewer who gets more enjoyment fighting what they're watching instead of suspending their disbelief. It's really boring even engaging with these sort of discussions.
"Daenerys should've dodged!"
"You're right."
"How did Bronn avoid being burned?"
"He jumped."
"Why was the water so deep?!"
"That was a very deep part of the river."
I mean, this criticism by way of Cinema Sins is just wholly uninteresting.
The Dothraki are inspired by the Mongols and the various indigenous peoples of North America, all of whom were expert archers on horseback.
Heck! The Mongols may be the best archers on horseback that the world has ever seen!
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Legit lol'd because you are right as well haha.
Dragon1893
Member
It was amazing. I actually watched that scene again the next day, I've never done that with any show.
molnizzle
Member
I've watched it 3-4 times now. I actually watched the episode again today after reading this thread. lol
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