Looks incredible as an S8 background
What a fantastic episode, the whole battle looked breathtaking
The fact that he's right next to a dragon fireball blowing up a large wooden stucture and is unharmed and unburnt, and follows that up with a world record high jump to knock Jaime off of his horse going full speed.
EDIT - again, still an awesome scene, but you have to laugh at that. Dude's using some cheat codes.
I wish they brought Miguel Sapochnik back for this one (though it was still a fantastic battle).Battle of the Bastards was better directed but this was still incredible and pushed the boundary of what's possible with the medium.
Flying straight versus a moving target that you need to try and lead your shot to hit?Wouldn't it make more sense to fly straight at the ballista rather than veering right or left providing a bigger target?
Typically you don't run in a straight line when you have a sniper aimed at you, no.Wouldn't it make more sense to fly straight at the ballista rather than veering right or left providing a bigger target?
It would be much harder to hit a moving target, even if the target is bigger. Flying directly in a straight line just allows the person aiming more time to line up the shot.Wouldn't it make more sense to fly straight at the ballista rather than veering right or left providing a bigger target?
Great scene. Couple of things bother me, as a stickler. Nothing major though. And sorry if already brought up.
1. Kinda lucky that the giant crossbow was like the last remaining thing to be destroyed.
2. when its destroyed Bronn just jumps off, and isnt hurt at all, while every other dragon breath attack had a massive fireball radius.
3.When Bronn knocks Jamie off the horse, the physics and logic of this is kinda absurd. First him not being anywhere near Jaime and then the impossible feat of somehow jumping up and knocking someone off a horse that is going full tilt is next to impossible.
4. Jaime is riding down the river in shallow water, but when hit off the horse he is now sinking several hundred feet below water?
I know its a fantasy show, and I just need to suspend belief, many movies and shows do stuff like this but much worse. but all these things stood out to me, and I should just let it slide. Regardless it was an epic scene especially for a TV show.
It would be much harder to hit a moving target, even if the target is bigger. Flying directly in a straight line just allows the person aiming more time to line up the shot.
Even better - quickly ascend and then burn it from directly overhead. The ballista wouldn't be able to hit at much more than a 45 degree angle.
But the reason they didn't do any of this is because it looks much cooler, and because they wanted Bronn to actually land a hit. And that's what I dislike about this scene and the show in general these days. All style, no substance.
but the reason they didn't do any of this is because it looks much cooler, and because they wanted Bronn to actually land a hit. And that's what I dislike about this scene and the show in general these days. All style, no substance.
Almost expected a real dragon in that making of and got disappointed.
Bonus video: The Nerdwriter show the multiple cinematic influences behind the creation of the scene. Really cool video that shows how and where from did the showrunners borrow to construct the entire sequence.
The difference between those scenes is that the only way Jaime and Bronn are able to survive this encounter is because the water is inexplicably deep an inch from shore. It's not really artistic license so much as it's a contrived way to allow for a thrilling scene while saving the character with plot armor.Sam Gamgee fell into water twenty steps from the shore and suddenly sank like a stone and looked like he was far underwater - until Frodo put his hand in the water and pulled him up. It's called artistic license. Also, sudden depths in water do exist.
Ugh, I was waiting for this excuse. Next someone will tell me that breaks in logic this like don't matter for a show with dragons and zombies in it.You do realize this is a TV show meant to entertain with drama and action, and not a documentary, right?
Yeah, these seem simple enough to deal with. They can't aim straight up.
Just fly in high outside of their range and either flank them or hit them from directly above. Since nothing else but these can hurt you, it's simple. I doubt the characters will ever consider this, though.
The difference between those scenes is that the only way Jaime and Bronn are able to survive this encounter is because the water is inexplicably deep an inch from shore. It's not really artistic license so much as it's a contrived way to allow for a thrilling scene while saving the character with plot armor.
And while sudden depths in water do exist...they aren't that sudden.
Ugh, I was waiting for this excuse. Next someone will tell me that breaks in logic this like don't matter for a show with dragons and zombies in it.
No. It's bad writing, pure and simple.
Add to it the fact Jaime's horse was running in the water at Dany during the charge.
It would be much harder to hit a moving target, even if the target is bigger. Flying directly in a straight line just allows the person aiming more time to line up the shot.
Even better - quickly ascend and then burn it from directly overhead. The ballista wouldn't be able to hit at much more than a 45 degree angle.
But the reason they didn't do any of this is because it looks much cooler, and because they wanted Bronn to actually land a hit. And that's what I dislike about this scene and the show in general these days. All style, no substance.
You assume it's a pond, but maybe it's just a canyon that filled with water over time. Those exist too.And while sudden depths in water do exist...they aren't that sudden.
She saw the first crossbolt that missed, and would have to be a complete moron not to realize the damage one could do if it landed in the right spot. Let alone that everyone had just been telling her how easily she herself could get hit in a battle like this. Plus, at least one of the dragons of her ancestors was killed by a ballista, and she would have heard those stories from Viserys as a child. And are we forgetting that Drogon was injured by men wielding spears at the end of Season 5?I don't think she realized that it would have even been a threat. She didn't know it was there when the battle started nor knew it existed at all. Arrows did nothing to her or the dragon. Here is a slightly larger arrow.
Now Shen knows there is something that can pierce the Dragons armour.
It's a river. They mention in the episode that they're near Blackwater Rush.You assume it's a pond, but maybe it's just a canyon that filled with water over time. Those exist too.
Well, yeah, suspension of disbelief. What's more important, narrative purpose or portraying the most realistic battle possible? Of course they wanted Bronn to land a hit, it served to show that the ballista is actually a legitimate threat, can down and weaken a dragon even with a non-fatal shot, and set up the final sceneIt would be much harder to hit a moving target, even if the target is bigger. Flying directly in a straight line just allows the person aiming more time to line up the shot.
Even better - quickly ascend and then burn it from directly overhead. The ballista wouldn't be able to hit at much more than a 45 degree angle.
But the reason they didn't do any of this is because it looks much cooler, and because they wanted Bronn to actually land a hit. And that's what I dislike about this scene and the show in general these days. All style, no substance.
I saw a few people calling the dragons WMDs. Those people should probably look up what WMDs actually are.
Well, yeah, suspension of disbelief. What's more important, narrative purpose or portraying the most realistic battle possible?
Ideally, I'd take both. I also don't think the ballista needed to hit to show that it was a threat. Bronn managing to narrowly miss with one of them was proof of concept enough, and I actually think would create even more tension later when Dany inevitably attacks King's Landing and there's dozens of them everywhere.Well, yeah, suspension of disbelief. What's more important, narrative purpose or portraying the most realistic battle possible? Of course they wanted Bronn to land a hit, it served to show that the ballista is actually a legitimate threat, can down and weaken a dragon even with a non-fatal shot, and set up the final scene
While the whole sequence was absolutely amazing, the beauty of this scene in particular stuck with me. Incredibly beautiful-
While the whole sequence was absolutely amazing, the beauty of this scene in particular stuck with me. Incredibly beautiful-
But the reason they didn't do any of this is because it looks much cooler, and because they wanted Bronn to actually land a hit. And that's what I dislike about this scene and the show in general these days. All style, no substance.
Lots of things, including Game of Thrones in seasons 1-3, and most of 4.What shows do you watch that are 100% realistic and rational?
She saw the first crossbolt that missed, and would have to be a complete moron not to realize the damage one could do if it landed in the right spot. Let alone that everyone had just been telling her how easily she herself could get hit in a battle like this. Plus, at least one of the dragons of her ancestors was killed by a ballista, and she would have heard those stories from Viserys as a child. And are we forgetting that Drogon was injured by men wielding spears at the end of Season 5?
It's a river. They mention in the episode that they're near Blackwater Rush.
We also see how wide the river is in several shots, and the answer is not very. It's not a canyon, and if it somehow was a horse wouldn't be riding along the edge of it.
I suffered from this a lot last season, I've just decided to ignore the holes and enjoy it for what it isIt was a cool battle but the reasons for it happening were contrived and so it lessened the impact for me.
Your analysis has completed ignored Dany as a character. Her arrogance, or as she puts it, her "faith in herself", her inexperience in battle, and how what little experience she did have (flying straight ahead at the masters ships and burning them) would inform her actions when faced with her second show of strength.
"Everyone telling her" what she should do, and her ignoring or halfway accepting that advice is part of her character, for better or worse.
She tried to play the cautious, "smart" approach, felt it was failing tremendously, so she rushed into a battle she didn't even need to be at to burn shit indiscriminately, and remind everyone what fire and blood looks like. Remember, she sees herself as a dragon, almost literally, and when she is on a power trip, she is almost blinded by rage.
Call her dumb for not being a military genius or master at aerial warfare in her two experiences with it, but I think it's within character established for seven seasons now for the woman that walked through fire unburnt to react indignantly to being shot at, and fly in without caution to 'dracarys" whatever dared threaten her. It's not too different from Drogo arrogantly letting himself get wounded because...high off adrenaline and power he feels invincible.
She came back to earth (no pun) whenever Drogon was rocked out of the sky, so maybe she'll be wiser in future attacks, now that she knows she can be hit in the air and that it can do damage if she doesn't fly smarter.
This show is filled with cliches now, and characters are acting uncharacteristically in order to service the plot. Cersei needed to get into a position of power, and so Tyrion becomes the fool.
If she was "flying smart" and Bronn happened to hit her, we'd get posts like "lol Bronn is magically a sharpshooter all of a sudden. Where was his training" etc. No one better cry "strawman" because I have been reading these threads long enough to know exactly how people bitch about these things (see: "plot armor" being tossed around so much with the main characters in this scene lol)
Aren't the Dothraki supposed to be the Westeros equivalent of the steppe peoples? They shouldn't be idiots charging heavy infantry with nothing but sabers.
You're absolutely right. I learned a long time ago that this sort of nitpicking is prevalent in a certain type of viewer who gets more enjoyment fighting what they're watching instead of suspending their disbelief. It's really boring even engaging with these sort of discussions.
"Daenerys should've dodged!"
"You're right."
"How did Bronn avoid being burned?"
"He jumped."
"Why was the water so deep?!"
"That was a very deep part of the river."
I mean, this criticism by way of Cinema Sins is just wholly uninteresting.
It was amazing. I actually watched that scene again the next day, I've never done that with any show.