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Digital Foundry: Sonic Mania PS4/XO/Switch Full Analysis

RoadHazard

Gold Member
How is the game at 720p on the Switch screen? If the pixel art is made to perfectly scale to 1080p and 4K that should mathematically mean that you can't get pixel-perfect alignment at 720p. Unless it's actually displayed at a different "zoom level" in that mode?
 

nynt9

Member
My game keeps crashing after the chemical plant zone boss fight. Playing on switch. Anyone else experiencing this? I don't have the home button issue.
 

Omikaru

Member
Honestly, I thought the framerate dips on the Switch version's 3D special stage was intentional (and on all platforms), to recapture the feel of Sonic CD's special stage. At any rate, it didn't bother me, but now I'm hoping for a patch in the future.

Very happy with this game. It feels like the next step-up from Mega Drive-era Sonic that I've always wanted.
 
Played for a while last night, the only issue I ran into was the slight slowdown in the special stages. A tad disappointing, but honestly not that big of a deal.

I am really curious how the CRT filters look on a 4K TV though. Does the added pixel density help better replicate the subpixel structure of a CRT, or does it pretty much look just like it does at 1080p?
 

yyr

Member
I had slowdown in one of the Blue Spheres stages last night on XB1. Everything else was smooth as butter.

So far, definitely worth buying day one. F that 3-1 boss, though! I'll have my revenge tonight.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
How is the game at 720p on the Switch screen? If the pixel art is made to perfectly scale to 1080p and 4K that should mathematically mean that you can't get pixel-perfect alignment at 720p. Unless it's actually displayed at a different "zoom level" in that mode?
It's good. 240 scales perfectly to 720p (3x scale). It looks very good on the Switch screen.

Here's a pic from the Switch version running in portable mode (using the screenshot function)

OY1c.png
 

Knurek

Member
How's the music quality? ~200 MB for the whole game makes me wary of the game using very low bitrate streams for music... :\
 
Here's Switch

NX1c.jpg

Hmm, a long shot, but I wonder if the slow home button issue is related to it being installed on an SD card. I have the issue (it takes a second or two for the home menu to show up), but I have the game installed on a 128 GB SD card.

How's the music quality? ~200 MB for the whole game makes me wary of the game using very low bitrate streams for music... :\

My guess is a lower quality or lower resolution intro video, but I can't be certain. (I don't even know if the intro video is even in the game because I didn't see it /look for it, lol.)
 

Ash735

Member
How's the music quality? ~200 MB for the whole game makes me wary of the game using very low bitrate streams for music... :\
Usually these are OGG-Vorbis -q5 (160kb/s). Remember that the tracks are only a minute or so long and have looping points.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Hmm, a long shot, but I wonder if the slow home button issue is related to it being installed on an SD card. I have the issue (it takes a second or two for the home menu to show up), but I have the game installed on a 128 GB SD card.
Good observation. I don't even have an SD card installed in my Switch. Maybe related? Hard to say.
 
Hmm, a long shot, but I wonder if the slow home button issue is related to it being installed on an SD card. I have the issue (it takes a second or two for the home menu to show up), but I have the game installed on a 128 GB SD card.

Tried it on my lunch break. Mine is installed on a 128 GB card, and I had no issues. Maybe it has to do with SD card quality.
 

-shadow-

Member
Hmm, a long shot, but I wonder if the slow home button issue is related to it being installed on an SD card. I have the issue (it takes a second or two for the home menu to show up), but I have the game installed on a 128 GB SD card.

It has no impact, I have it installed on my internal memory and it still has that problem.
 
I don't remember how it played as a kid, but the sphere levels, was there a considerable lag between pretting the DPad and Sonic making a 90 degree turn?

It feels like it could be deliberate but I just don't have the memory to confirm if so or not.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
I don't remember how it played as a kid, but the sphere levels, was there a considerable lag between pretting the DPad and Sonic making a 90 degree turn?

It feels like it could be deliberate but I just don't have the memory to confirm if so or not.
Yes, there is. It's part of the design. You input the direction just prior to hitting the corner.

That said, I compared the two directly yesterday and played Sonic 3 on a PVM CRT monitor with no input latency and clearly Mania isn't quite THAT responsive but it's very very close. There is still a delay in the original game.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
It's good. 240 scales perfectly to 720p (3x scale). It looks very good on the Switch screen.

Here's a pic from the Switch version running in portable mode (using the screenshot function)

OY1c.png

Ah, makes sense. Although... How does 240p scale perfectly to 1080p? It's 4.5x, no?
 

nillapuddin

Member
Any acknowledgment of the Xbox issues?
It was really disheartening last night having the constant slow down
:/

Edit
Saw last page, I'll try moving to internal, but I dont see how that's the cure all, Ive played dozens of games off that external with the Xbox and never had an issue.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
It doesn't scale perfectly to 1080p, which is why the 4K mode on the Pro is a plus; 240p DOES scale perfectly to 4K.

So on a 1080p display you don't get pixel-perfect sharpness in this game? The video didn't say that, only that native 4K is better on a 4K screen because TVs general do some smoothing when upscaling. So I'm a bit confused here. That's why I thought 720p would be the one that didn't get perfect pixel alignment.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Any acknowledgment of the Xbox issues?
It was really disheartening last night having the constant slow down
:/

Edit
Saw last page, I'll try moving to internal, but I dont see how that's the cure all, Ive played dozens of games off that external with the Xbox and never had an issue.
That was just a thought based on other games but, in the end, that doesn't seem to fix it.

I made the video using my Xbox One S because who would have expected there to be a difference in a game like this?

Well there is. I think this might be the first time I've encountered a genuine difference like this between XO and XO-S (beyond every so slightly faster frame-rates in a few games).

My launch Xbox One also exhibits problems, though not to the same degree as I've seen in some videos. There's definitely something wrong with the game when running on OG hardware.

I'll try to see about getting up a PSA or article or something about the problem. I played up through Mirage Saloon on my Xbox One S and it was 100% flawless. On the OG system, though, I got lots of little hitches and skips even in the very first stage. :\

So on a 1080p display you don't get pixel-perfect sharpness in this game? The video didn't say that, only that native 4K is better on a 4K screen because TVs general do some smoothing when upscaling. So I'm a bit confused here. That's why I thought 720p would be the one that didn't get perfect pixel alignment.
There must be some very subtle interpolation going on (similar to using a Framemeister) as it looks razor sharp on a 1080p display (tested on my 1080p Kuro plasma). There's no visible distortion or anything like that - just a hint of sub-pixel blur if you look very very closely. It's much sharper than, say, Sonic CD's XBLA/PS3 port. It looks fantastic at 1080p.

Here's a 1080p shot taken from Switch in docked mode (you have to maximize the shot - on Chrome, if the window is too small, it resizes and filters the image resulting in blurry pixels - if you look at the shot using its full resolution it's very sharp).

ec2c.png
 

Gitaroo

Member
So how does the switch version look on a 4k TV? Typical 1080p scaling? I was going to get it on the switch then I saw the slow down issue which sucks. Does the switch version have HD rumble or anything over other version beside being portable? Shuld I just wait for the pc version or get it on ps4pro?
 

JnFnRu

Member
Im not sure about you guys but I find in the Bonus Levels when you collect the blue balloons, there is a bit of a input lag on Switch which means sometimes Sonic moves right when I click, sometimes he moves too slow....
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
So how does the switch version look on a 4k TV? Typical 1080p scaling? I was going to get it on the switch then I saw the slow down issue which sucks. Does the switch version have HD rumble or anything over other version beside being portable? Shuld I just wait for the pc version or get it on ps4pro?
How it looks on a 4K TV depends on how your TV scales 1080p. Unlike most sources, pixel art benefits from nearest neighbor scaling (which is rare). Some TVs introduce a lot of blur others less so.

The portable aspect is its big selling point.

I would just go for the Pro version as the PC won't really offer anything over it. It runs 100% perfectly on Pro and supports 4K output.

Im not sure about you guys but I find in the Bonus Levels when you collect the blue balloons, there is a bit of a input lag on Switch which means sometimes Sonic moves right when I click, sometimes he moves too slow....
Which bonus stage? The UFO chase or the blue sphere stages?

The blue sphere stages have input delay on purpose as you input your direction before hitting the corners. It's like that in the originals.

The UFO chase, however, feels a little sluggish I suppose but I think it's on purpose.
 

Guess Who

Banned
Technically none of the devices offer actual perfect pixel-perfect scaling of Sonic Mania because the native resolution is 424x240, meaning all 16:9 scales slightly stretch the width to fill the screen.
 

JnFnRu

Member
How it looks on a 4K TV depends on how your TV scales 1080p. Unlike most sources, pixel art benefits from nearest neighbor scaling (which is rare). Some TVs introduce a lot of blur others less so.

The portable aspect is its big selling point.

I would just go for the Pro version as the PC won't really offer anything over it. It runs 100% perfectly on Pro and supports 4K output.


Which bonus stage? The UFO chase or the blue sphere stages?

The blue sphere stages have input delay on purpose as you input your direction before hitting the corners. It's like that in the originals.

The UFO chase, however, feels a little sluggish I suppose but I think it's on purpose.

Oh really? Thanks I better scrub up a bit more then.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
There must be some very subtle interpolation going on (similar to using a Framemeister) as it looks razor sharp on a 1080p display (tested on my 1080p Kuro plasma). There's no visible distortion or anything like that - just a hint of sub-pixel blur if you look very very closely. It's much sharper than, say, Sonic CD's XBLA/PS3 port. It looks fantastic at 1080p.

Here's a 1080p shot taken from Switch in docked mode (you have to maximize the shot - on Chrome, if the window is too small, it resizes and filters the image resulting in blurry pixels - if you look at the shot using its full resolution it's very sharp).

ec2c.png

Ah, actually, the checkered ground texture makes it very obvious that the scaling here is not pixel-perfect:

skrmklippc8khl.png


It goes from pixel-perfect edges, to interpolated in-between ones, and back to pixel-perfect again. Although, it's weird how it's seemingly interpolating the original 240p pixels, not the 1080p ones... I don't know, maybe this is a different issue entirely. Does it look like this at 4K as well?
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Ah, actually, the checkered ground texture makes it very obvious that the scaling here is not pixel-perfect:

skrmklippc8khl.png


It goes from pixel-perfect edges, to interpolated in-between ones, and back to pixel-perfect again. Although, it's weird how it's seemingly interpolating the original 240p pixels, not the 1080p ones... I don't know, maybe this is a different issue entirely. Does it look like this at 4K as well?
That's kind of thing - while playing, it genuinely does appear "pixel perfect" but it's obvious that there is something going on with the way its displayed when you look closely. I can't tell if it's the result of the scale or something with the way the artwork was created. I kinda feel like the checkerboard thing is intentional shading. Many other elements of the image look completely sharp.
 

MaLDo

Member
That's kind of thing - while playing, it genuinely does appear "pixel perfect" but it's obvious that there is something going on with the way its displayed when you look closely. I can't tell if it's the result of the scale or something with the way the artwork was created. I kinda feel like the checkerboard thing is intentional shading. Many other elements of the image look completely sharp.


It looks blurred to me and have artifacts.
 

The Hermit

Member
Hmm, a long shot, but I wonder if the slow home button issue is related to it being installed on an SD card. I have the issue (it takes a second or two for the home menu to show up), but I have the game installed on a 128 GB SD card.



My guess is a lower quality or lower resolution intro video, but I can't be certain. (I don't even know if the intro video is even in the game because I didn't see it /look for it, lol.)

I have on the system's memory and the issue is still there. It's clearly a bug
 
I still haven't tried the CRT filter. I wish it didn't require restarting the game.

I tried the "None" option at first, cause it looked better to me on the preview image, but as soon as I started the game I realized it was too rough for my liking and went back to "Clean".

The 3D ports on 3DS were great in that regard, allowing you to change graphics settings while in-game for easy and immediate A-B comparison.

I haven't encountered the home button issue on the Switch yet (only played in portable mode), I wonder if it only happens in docked?
 

F34R

Member
I'm not having the problems with the screenshot, home buttons, and I can switch filters on the fly without issue.
 
I'm not having the problems with the screenshot, home buttons, and I can switch filters on the fly without issue.

How do you switch filters on the fly?? There are no options/settings when I pause the game. There's only Continue, Restart, and Exit.
 

F34R

Member
How do you switch filters on the fly?? There are no options/settings when I pause the game. There's only Continue, Restart, and Exit.

Yeah, I just choose "exit" and change the filter after that. I thought people were having issues where you have to restart the entire game. My misunderstanding.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
I'm going to put up a little PSA report today regarding the Xbox One version.

After more testing, I do believe there is an issue with the game running on original Xbox One consoles.

I played through a long stretch on my Xbox One S (which I used for the video) and it's flawless but, on my launch day Xbox One, it stutters regularly along with sound drops.

We tested them at the office as well on other OG systems. Same problem.

So, clearly, there's a bug there that's hurting the game experience for Xbox One owners. Very weird.
 

Xcell Miguel

Gold Member
And here? There will be some artefacts due to compression but I don't think this looks blurred.

The "RINGS" text on the 1080p screenshot looks blurred at the top but not on the 720p screenshot from the Switch.

Also trees trunks look not that regular, look at the middle one on the 1080p screen, its edges are "blurred".

It's like the engine renders the game at something else than 240p, then it resize it to 240p using bi-linear (causing the blur), then stretch it to 720p/1080p/4k using nearest neighbor.


EDIT :
I'm going to put up a little PSA report today regarding the Xbox One version.

After more testing, I do believe there is an issue with the game running on original Xbox One consoles.

I played through a long stretch on my Xbox One S (which I used for the video) and it's flawless but, on my launch day Xbox One, it stutters regularly along with sound drops.

We tested them at the office as well on other OG systems. Same problem.

So, clearly, there's a bug there that's hurting the game experience for Xbox One owners. Very weird.

On OG Xbox One, does it happen in every levels ?
I did some videos on my OG Xbox One Elite (with the 1 TB SSHD), but the game was on my external HDD (a 3.5" 2TB Seagate, with its own power supply) and did not encounter any slowdown on all levels I played (up to Studiopolis Act 2), except the achievement popup stutter.

But I'm in the Alpha Insider ring so I have the "fluent design" update.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
The "RINGS" text on the 1080p screenshot looks blurred at the top but not on the 720p screenshot from the Switch.

Also trees trunks look not that regular, look at the middle one on the 1080p screen, its edges are "blurred".

It's like the engine renders the game at something else than 240p, then it resize it to 240p using bi-linear (causing the blur), then stretch it to 720p/1080p/4k using nearest neighbor.
Yeah, that might be what's going on. It's using nearest scaling on a filtering image.

It would make sense since the art resolution doesn't perfectly scale to 1080p. Though, even at 720p, the horizontal resolution isn't a match.

On OG Xbox One, does it happen in every levels ?
I did some videos on my OG Xbox One Elite (with the 1 TB SSHD), but the game was on my external HDD (a 3.5" 2TB Seagate, with its own power supply) and did not encounter any slowdown on all levels I played (up to Studiopolis Act 2).
Yes. It happens in every level including the intro video on all of our OG Xbox systems.

It cannot possibly affect EVERY Xbox One but it seems like those having issues are almost exclusively OG Xbox One systems. That's why I missed it in the initial report - it played flawlessly on my S and I would never have guessed that issues would crop up on other systems.

It's entirely possible that the "fluent design" update actually solves the issue, though, since I have a feeling it's a background process related problem.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
One bug I had on the Switch version yesterday was right after completing Chemical Zone (can't remember if it was Act 1 or 2). I juggled a bit with the flag/panel thinging that drop from the sky at the end of a level so it would bring my score to 10,000 (meaningless, I know DON'T JUDGE ME). Anyway, did that for a while, then the level ended, and right after that I got an error message and the game crashed. I could reboot it just fine and haven't encountered the issue again since then.
 

Xcell Miguel

Gold Member
Yes. It happens in every level including the intro video on all of our OG Xbox systems.

It cannot possibly affect EVERY Xbox One but it seems like those having issues are almost exclusively OG Xbox One systems. That's why I missed it in the initial report - it played flawlessly on my S and I would never have guessed that issues would crop up on other systems.

It's entirely possible that the "fluent design" update actually solves the issue, though, since I have a feeling it's a background process related problem.

Ok I'll try again and play more to see if it happens, I'll also move the game to internal storage.
 
One bug I had on the Switch version yesterday was right after completing Chemical Zone (can't remember if it was Act 1 or 2). I juggled a bit with the flag/panel thinging that drop from the sky at the end of a level so it would bring my score to 10,000 (meaningless, I know DON'T JUDGE ME). Anyway, did that for a while, then the level ended, and right after that I got an error message and the game crashed. I could reboot it just fine and haven't encountered the issue again since then.

The flags only drop after act 1 of a zone.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Pulling out my hair here.

Tested multiple times on my launch Xbox One. With Kinect plugged in, it stutters. With Kinect unplugged it's perfect.

...but there's no way everyone with issues has Kinect plugged in, right?

edit - OK, Dave at the office doesn't have Kinect plugged in yet it stutters.

This is a tricky bug. I feel for the Sonic Mania team!
 
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